Originally posted by chilled monkey
"A master of every weapon and every style" is open to interpretation. Really it just means you know how to do the moves, not NECCESSARILY that you're good at applying them in combat. Dooku comments on this in "Labyrinth of Evil."
A "Master" won't just know the moves theoretically. He will be able to apply them as well.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Just watch Palpatine in combat. They point out in the video that in his fight against the Zabrak brothers he does a ton of sloppy moves that only work because of Force augmentation.
So their evidence that Palpatine lacks any real combat skill comes from the same fight where all 3 of them agreed Palpatine was clearly "Toying" with his opponents?
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Likewise Kit Fisto, a guy who isn't as fast or as powerful as Palpatine and who uses a style that's weak in single combat against skilled Force-users, was still able to block a few strikes.
Perhaps because he was aided by Mace Windu. And still didn't last more than a few seconds.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Again, THINK. Don't just ignore logic and common sense because of some quote.
Quotes are evidence. Speculation is not. Saying that "he couldn't have kept up his Saber skills" is speculation.
Speculation is fine for discussion purposes, but shouldn't be presented as fact which is what these guys are doing.
Originally posted by Trocity
.......goes on to say Malak is the better duelist.
Gordon Bennet, pay attention to what he actually says.
He states that he sees Malak as the overall superior duellist (and that's important. He admits that's just what he thinks, he doesn't state it as fact) because Malak created a unique composite fighting style, something Yoda did not achieve. He mastered all the Forms but he didn't blend or integrate them, just switched between them as needed. It's the whole "technicalities vs practical applications."
In an actual duel he states very clearly that Yoda would win in terms of swordsmanship.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
So their evidence that Palpatine lacks any real combat skill comes from the same fight where all 3 of them agreed Palpatine was clearly "Toying" with his opponents?
Clearly you haven't even watched the video.
They NEVER claimed that "Palpatine lacks any real combat skill." They acknowledged that he's a master-level duellist, they simply point out that he's not the most skilled duellist ever (which he isn't) and that he's not invincible (which he isn't).
Also, he was toying with Maul and Savage because if he'd wanted to he could have just sliced them up via blinding speed, not overwhelming skill. Again, notice the sloppy moves he uses, moves that would get him killed if he didn't have Force Enhanced speed and strength.
To put it another way Palpatine is like Deadpool or Logan from Marvel comics. He has a high level of fighting skill, he just doesn't always use it because his other powers mean he doesn't need to and this has led him to develop some bad habits.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Saying that "he couldn't have kept up his Saber skills" is speculation.
No it's fact.
Tell me, when could Palpatine have found the time to train, given that he's masterminding both sides in a galactic war? Even if he could find time who's he going to train against that can really challenge him?
Originally posted by chilled monkeyClearly you haven't even watched the video.
Unfortunately I did waste my time with the video. But to be fair they raised the odd good point, and it was semi-entertaining.
In fact I'm sure they're just Trolling to get more hits.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
They NEVER claimed that "Palpatine lacks any real combat skill." They acknowledged that he's a master-level duellist, they simply point out that he's not the most skilled duellist ever (which he isn't) and that he's not invincible (which he isn't).
Actually they were back and forth with it. They would acknowledge the "master" part at times, then say he sucks at other times, and that "The Only Reason" he can contend with the best is due to his immense speed and power.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Also, he was toying with Maul and Savage because if he'd wanted to he could have just sliced them up via blinding speed, not overwhelming skill. Again, notice the sloppy moves he uses, moves that would get him killed if he didn't have Force Enhanced speed and strength.
LOL If he was Completely Toying with them, then why use that as evidence for "sloppy moves". Do you not see how contradictory that is? Because if he's toying, then you can't rely on him giving them his best moves.
Originally posted by chilled monkeyNo it's fact.
Tell me, when could Palpatine have found the time to train, given that he's masterminding both sides in a galactic war? Even if he could find time who's he going to train against that can really challenge him?
The fact that you're asking questions shows it is speculation. A question isn't a fact.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Gordon Bennet, pay attention to what he actually says.He states that he sees Malak as the overall superior duellist (and that's important. He admits that's just what he thinks, he doesn't state it as fact) because Malak created a unique composite fighting style, something Yoda did not achieve. He mastered all the Forms but he didn't blend or integrate them, just switched between them as needed. It's the whole "technicalities vs practical applications."
In an actual duel he states very clearly that Yoda would win in terms of swordsmanship.
Which is total bullshit. Using a hybrid style doesn't make one better in any shape or form.
Clearly you haven't even watched the video.They NEVER claimed that "Palpatine lacks any real combat skill." They acknowledged that he's a master-level duellist, they simply point out that he's not the most skilled duellist ever (which he isn't) and that he's not invincible (which he isn't).
Yeah right, they said he is like Adi Gallia level...
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Unfortunately I did waste my time with the video. But to be fair they raised the odd good point, and it was semi-entertaining.In fact I'm sure they're just Trolling to get more hits.
Doubtful seeing as everything they said made perfect sense and adds up. If it was "just trolling" then it wouldn't be so well thought-out and consistent.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Actually they were back and forth with it. They would acknowledge the "master" part at times, then say he sucks at other times, and that "The Only Reason" he can contend with the best is due to his immense speed and power.
People exaggerate and use hyperbole sometimes. When they say he sucks they're clearly exaggerating.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
LOL If he was Completely Toying with them, then why use that as evidence for "sloppy moves". Do you not see how contradictory that is? Because if he's toying, then you can't rely on his giving them him best moves.
Because its consistent with his other fights. If that was the only instance of sloppiness then you might have a point, but the same thing happens against Yoda and against Mace & Kit. That shows a pattern and that means a habit.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
The fact that you're asking questions shows it is speculation. A question isn't a fact.
Have you never heard of a rhetorical question?
Okay then, I'll give you the facts.
Fact: Palpatine didn't have any real time to practise his fighting skills as he was far too busy.
Fact: There was no one he could train against even if he had time.
There we go.
Originally posted by chilled monkeyBecause its consistent with his other fights. If that was the only instance of sloppiness then you might have a point, but the same thing happens against Yoda and against Mace & Kit. That shows a pattern and that means a habit.
If we go by the ROTS Choreography then Mace Windu sucks as well. They even pointed that out in their video, that we can't take the movie fights completely at face value otherwise Mace Windu and Darth Sidious both clearly suck as Swordsmen.
Originally posted by chilled monkeyFact: Palpatine didn't have any real time to practise his fighting skills as he was far too busy.
No that's speculation.
He could have easily found time say once every few months, which might have been all he needed to maintain his skill set.
The Anti-Sidious movement have been claiming this for years, that Palpatine never once touched his Saber or fought anyone since TPM. And then in the last 2 years we've seen he fought against Maul, Savage, Talzin, and Yoda (in the illusion which I'm guessing worked same as real world in terms of combat moves) during TCW.
So we don't know how often he fought/trained at all. It's all speculation. The only facts are Canonical Quotes and Feats.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Fact: There was no one he could train against even if he had time.
Seemed to work fine for Vader.
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Do you drink their sperm?
No, I am not worthy.
Also the fact that you can't come up with an actual counter-argument says it all.
Originally posted by cs zoltan
Which is total bullshit. Using a hybrid style doesn't make one better in any shape or form.
That's your opinion. Jensaarai1 feels differently. He believes that an innovator who creates their own fighting form is more worthy of respect than one who simply sticks to the standard. In his eyes the first elevates the practise while the second just maintains the status quo.
What matters is that he acknowledged that was just his opinion, he did not state it as a fact. More importantly he didn't let it influence his judgement on the actual outcome as he stated Yoda would win a lightsabre duel against Malak.
Originally posted by chilled monkeyIt's more the fact that I can't read your posts without losing brain cells and wishing death upon the human race that makes me not interested in taking the time to counter your cluster**** of an argument.
Also the fact that you can't come up with an actual counter-argument says it all.
That's your opinion. Jensaarai1 feels differently. He believes that an innovator who creates their own fighting form is more worthy of respect than one who simply sticks to the standard. In his eyes the first elevates the practise while the second just maintains the status quo.
The ironic part is that Sidious is one of the best examples of this in the mythos.