BLM mob disrupts students in Dartmouth library

see i get the pragmatic angle of targeting police brutality... what i don't like is that the way you are speaking makes it sound as if the black murder rate in general is a lost cause that can't really be taken on via political action or activism.. i think that the reality is it's just not as useful as political fodder because it's a much more difficult and complicated issue. that's why it isn't seeing the same light.

also... i wonder if the fact that black people are murdered by the cops more has something to do with the fact that cops who work in high crime neighborhoods can tend to be more militant/trigger happy, and statistically black people are over-represented in these neighborhoods the same way they are statistically over-represented in police murders. which gets back to the relationship between the two issues, and the fact that by focusing on police tactics alone you are only attacking the symptom and not the virus.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, they wouldn't, because like I explained, the methods they use can not work on gangs, but they can, and will, work on police.

No, police brutality is not the issue, police officers valuing black lives less than other lives is the issue, hence "Black Lives Matter", so that police officers realize "Oh right, black lives matter....".

Ridiculous and stupid, you don't give a shit about either topic, you only give a shit about not hearing about the racism issue anymore, and any argument, no matter how godawful and moronic works for you to deflect from it.

I have no problem hearing about racism. What people like you don't want to hear about is how these communities are imploding because of the people who live in them, not the cops. Far worse problems and yet our attention can only go to the cops because hey that shit is easier to solve.

So no, these people don't care about black lives. Just racism. Which hey that is fine, it's a problem. But lets be real about it and call it what it is, they do not give two shits about black lives in general. If they did their communities would not be in the state they are in.

It's also utterly asinine to think a cop who doesn't think black lives matter will change his mind because of a god damn chant.

Also you talking about other people deflecting is like Star talking about other people being religious nutjobs.

Originally posted by red g jacks
see i get the pragmatic angle of targeting police brutality... what i don't like is that the way you are speaking makes it sound as if the black murder rate in general is a lost cause that can't really be taken on via political action or activism.. i think that the reality is it's just not as useful as political fodder because it's a much more difficult and complicated issue. that's why it isn't seeing the same light.

also... i wonder if the fact that black people are murdered by the cops more has something to do with the fact that cops who work in high crime neighborhoods can tend to be more militant/trigger happy, and statistically black people are over-represented in these neighborhoods the same way they are statistically over-represented in police murders. which gets back to the relationship between the two issues, and the fact that by focusing on police tactics alone you are only attacking the symptom and not the virus.

I'm sorry if you got that from my post, but I think many of my earlier posts on the topic underline that I think things can be done, should be done and are done regarding gang violence. I just find it silly when certain people bring this other, unrelated topic up every time BLM or a police shooting are discussed, in an obvious attempt to divert from that issue.

It tends to be disingenuous, too, it's people who don't want to outright say "Shut up about this, I don't care about this issue", because that's obviously racist, so instead they say "talk about this other issue instead, (I'm more comfortable with it)" ...

Again, I'm not comparing BLM in scope or cause to Ghandi's, but it is like asking Ghandi "So, you speak a lot about the problems Indians have, but isn't it true that South Africans have problems, too? Shouldn't you speak about them instead exclusively?!"

Originally posted by Surtur
I have no problem hearing about racism. What people like you don't want to hear about is how these communities are imploding because of the people who live in them, not the cops. Far worse problems and yet our attention can only go to the cops because hey that shit is easier to solve.

So no, these people don't care about black lives. Just racism. Which hey that is fine, it's a problem. But lets be real about it and call it what it is, they do not give two shits about black lives in general. If they did their communities would not be in the state they are in.

It's also utterly asinine to think a cop who doesn't think black lives matter will change his mind because of a god damn chant.

Also you talking about other people deflecting is like Star talking about other people being religious nutjobs.

Okay, you are still wrong for the endless amounts of reasons that literally everyone has given you, but I can see that is futile to try to convince you further.

And yeah, cause I go into threads about racially motivated police violence and say "lets talk about inner city gang violence instead", you really called me out there.

You keep saying "everyone" but it's been you and maybe 2-3 other people.

Originally posted by Surtur
You keep saying "everyone" but it's been you and maybe 2-3 other people.

I will ask you flat out: do you feel a cop who is racist and would kill a black person in a scenario where if they were white they would not kill them...would be at all influenced by black people chanting "black lives matter".

Yes

Yep, that is all I needed to hear then.

You could also go back to the 5 other threads that you have disrupted and look at our previous interactions where I have explained to you why in such a simple manner that even a complete moron would have understood it, but since this is not a lack of understanding, but a racist agenda that you have, I don't think it'll help.

Again, you calling other people morons is priceless.

Originally posted by Surtur
Again, you calling other people morons is priceless.

Please, I called you racist, not a moron, learn to read.

But I'm not racist. Anyone who addresses anything other then bad cops is racist to you. So it's still an asinine statement. Just like your "everyone has literally been telling you" shit.

We can certainly talk about people who need to learn to read, but it would then appear we both need lessons.

Originally posted by Surtur
Again, you calling other people morons is priceless.

actually, he indirectly suggested that you're less than a moron. your misconstruing of that post only lends credence to his claim. not that i agree with him...nor disagree...

Based on what I have read so far this thread seems like a continuation of all other threads that have involved BLM.

Originally posted by Bashar Teg
actually, he indirectly suggested that you're less than a moron. your misconstruing of that post only lends credence to his claim. not that i agree with him...nor disagree...

No, I just misread what he was saying, that is all.

It's also odd for a person who has said on multiple occasions "literally everyone has told you this" making any comments about people learning to read, since no..some people agree, some disagree. Anyone reading the forum for the past few months would know that. Which almost sounds like a roundabout way of saying "everyone agrees with my view" which is odd in any context.

So all in all, meh.

Who cares about BLM, they are pretty much a terrorist group.

This is another good example of the racism that still exists. BLM is an insanely benign protest movement in the grand scheme of things. They've done nothing besides interrupt a couple politicians and a library. And people who just can't deal with being confronted with their own racism go to the extend of calling it a hate group or a terrorists group.

All BLM says is "wouldn't it be nice if cops would not kill black people at a disproportionate rate", and people lose their shit.

Just like you say that anyone who does not agree with them is racist..

Hypocrite.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I'm sorry if you got that from my post, but I think many of my earlier posts on the topic underline that I think things can be done, should be done and are done regarding gang violence. I just find it silly when certain people bring this other, unrelated topic up every time BLM or a police shooting are discussed, in an obvious attempt to divert from that issue.

It tends to be disingenuous, too, it's people who don't want to outright say "Shut up about this, I don't care about this issue", because that's obviously racist, so instead they say "talk about this other issue instead, (I'm more comfortable with it)" ...

Again, I'm not comparing BLM in scope or cause to Ghandi's, but it is like asking Ghandi "So, you speak a lot about the problems Indians have, but isn't it true that South Africans have problems, too? Shouldn't you speak about them instead exclusively?!"

in reality, i'm just pointing out the police brutality is one small part of a larger issue, yet the way it is being portrayed it would seem like it is the most important issue the black community is facing. you have suggested some vague ideas about other ways to address the problems in the black community here and there... but usually only after people have brought it to your attention that the bulk of the black murder rate is not due to police brutality.

try to remember the context in which this debate arose on this forum... it was in a thread where q99 tried to disingenuously use the black murder stats to suggest that being black in america was dangerous primarily due to police murders. when it was pointed out that this wasn't the case by myself and others, you q99 and other liberals continued to harp on about the police issue while generally ignoring the other systemic problems... this is why we (or at least i) am not dropping it... because i don't find this discussion to be honest

the only reason you've given for disproportionately focusing on the police issue is that you think it's easier to reform the police than address the systemic issues which lead to gang violence

hence why i said that you speak about the black murder rate as if it's a lost cause. and with regard to black lives matter.. the slogan is so broad that in fact they should be focusing on the main threats to black lives if that is what they are actually concerned about... it may not be an easy fight, but many worthwhile fights aren't

once again, i think the reason that the focus is disproportionately on police murders is because this narrative serves as better political fodder for the left. so i'm not at all being disingenuous.. i'm saying exactly what my issues with the campaign are. i think the left is pimping the issues minorities face for political leverage, as they so often do. i'm calling a spade a spade. if you disagree, then you disagree. if you dismiss me as dishonest or disingenuous without demonstrating why, then i dismiss you as a misguided ideologue.

honestly, i just have a sort of cynical perception of these types of college activist groups in general. because of my experiences with them. my ex went to an academically prestigious art university and was brainwashed by the people there to get into all sorts of activism... her biggest one was anti israel activism. this sort of thing teaches people how to be professional agitators and victims... it doesn't teach them how to actually solve the problems they ***** about.

like i also disagree with isreal and honestly think that state shouldn't even exist, but now it does and i don't think they should be cast off the land but i do think their govt is ****ed up. even so... the anti-israeli activists were just dogmatically anti-israel to the point where some of them won't even take a stance condemning hamas. i just see this sort of thing as toxic and unproductive. we need to learn to teach students to approach politics from a pov of getting the best results, rather than finding the most provocative and effective political fodder.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i think you are putting words in my mouth here, by suggesting that i just want to silence the police brutality issue

in reality, i'm just pointing out the police brutality is one small part of a larger issue, yet the way it is being portrayed it would seem like it is the most important issue the black community is facing. you have suggested some vague ideas about other ways to address the problems in the black community here and there... but usually only after people have brought it to your attention that the bulk of the black murder rate is not due to police brutality.

try to remember the context in which this debate arose on this forum... it was in a thread where q99 tried to disingenuously use the black murder stats to suggest that being black in america was dangerous primarily due to police murders. when it was pointed out that this wasn't the case by myself and others, you q99 and other liberals continued to harp on about the police issue while generally ignoring the other systemic problems... this is why we (or at least i) am not dropping it... because i don't find this discussion to be honest

the only reason you've given for disproportionately focusing on the police issue is that you think it's easier to reform the police than address the systemic issues which lead to gang violence

hence why i said that you speak about the black murder rate as if it's a lost cause. and with regard to black lives matter.. the slogan is so broad that in fact they should be focusing on the main threats to black lives if that is what they are actually concerned about... it may not be an easy fight, but many worthwhile fights aren't

once again, i think the reason that the focus is disproportionately on police murders is because this narrative serves as better political fodder for the left. so i'm not at all being disingenuous.. i'm saying exactly what my issues with the campaign are. i think the left is pimping the issues minorities face for political leverage, as they so often do. i'm calling a spade a spade. if you disagree, then you disagree. if you dismiss me as dishonest or disingenuous without demonstrating why, then i dismiss you as a misguided ideologue.

I did not mean you regarding deflecting, I was talking about the general attitude that persists in all these threads. I thought your points were thoughtful and on point, on the whole.

Again the police issue is a big issue, and like you said yourself, it has further reaching consequences (i.e. the racist policing contributing to the spread of gang violence).

I don't recall the exchange you are referencing, but in many threads I have talked about the issues with gang violence and how that is a valid topic, but how it should not be used to silence groups like BLM who also point out a valid issue and an issue that may be to some degree related to the gang violence.

However, there is a pattern, and I'm not saying you fall into it, where, whenever a black person (often unarmed teenagers) are killed by the police a brigade of right wing minded people start diverting the attention away from this very real problem of racist police and instead want to talk about gang violence. And that is, imo, a racist and politically motivated tactic. If they cared about gang violence, they'd talk about it somewhere outside of the issues that these protest movements talk about.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Just like you say that anyone who does not agree with them is racist..

Hypocrite.

Of course everyone who doesn't agree with them is racist. Even racists realize this, which is why they don't generally say "I disagree with BLM" but "I disagree with their methods" or "Lets talk about black on black violence instead, I'm more comfortable with that, thanks"