BLM mob disrupts students in Dartmouth library

Originally posted by red g jacks
honestly, i just have a sort of cynical perception of these types of college activist groups in general. because of my experiences with them. my ex went to an academically prestigious art university and was brainwashed by the people there to get into all sorts of activism... her biggest one was anti israel activism. this sort of thing teaches people how to be professional agitators and victims... it doesn't teach them how to actually solve the problems they ***** about.

like i also disagree with isreal and honestly think that state shouldn't even exist, but now it does and i don't think they should be cast off the land but i do think their govt is ****ed up. even so... the anti-israeli activists were just dogmatically anti-israel to the point where some of them won't even take a stance condemning hamas. i just see this sort of thing as toxic and unproductive. we need to learn to teach students to approach politics from a pov of getting the best results, rather than finding the most provocative and effective political fodder.

I think you are oversimplifying that issue. For one the issue that people that are pro-palestine are about is generally not casting Israel off their land, but casting them off the occupied territories in Gaza and the West Bank. Pretty much everyone on the left who feels Israel is mistreating Palestinians agrees that Israel has the right to exist and protect itself, but that it is overstepping this and thereby causing one of the biggest humanitarian crisis we face today.

I agree with working on achieving the best results, however I am not sure whether the kind of left protest movements that are becoming more popular aren't actually ultimately an effective way to achieve the goal.

Regarding Israel, we have to sadly say that we are now further away from a peaceful end than we were 20 years ago, in part because of the rise of the far-right within Israel after the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I did not mean you regarding deflecting, I was talking about the general attitude that persists in all these threads. I thought your points were thoughtful and on point, on the whole.

Again the police issue is a big issue, and like you said yourself, it has further reaching consequences (i.e. the racist policing contributing to the spread of gang violence).

I don't recall the exchange you are referencing, but in many threads I have talked about the issues with gang violence and how that is a valid topic, but how it should not be used to silence groups like BLM who also point out a valid issue and an issue that may be to some degree related to the gang violence.

However, there is a pattern, and I'm not saying you fall into it, where, whenever a black person (often unarmed teenagers) are killed by the police a brigade of right wing minded people start diverting the attention away from this very real problem of racist police and instead want to talk about gang violence. And that is, imo, a racist and politically motivated tactic. If they cared about gang violence, they'd talk about it somewhere outside of the issues that these protest movements talk about.

but i am trying to use the blm shit as a platform to get people to think about what i think are the serious issues we have in this country with regard to the black community

because i think it's one of the biggest issues in this country, and way bigger than the problem with police brutality. and i think that when liberals point out the connection between the two they often get it wrong - insisting that bad policing is contributing to gang violence. i think it is much more common that gang violence comes from systemic economic conditions, and then as a result of the dangerous conditions in that neighborhood, the police in that neighborhood become more trigger happy.

cops are people at the end of the day, and are fearful for their lives as well.

so i think if we were to somehow tackle the problem with gang violence and other crime related violence in the black community, we would as a result see a lot less of the disproportionate trend of cops shooting unarmed black men.

where as if we just focus on being strict on the police in terms of police brutality... this will do very little to help bring the black murder rate down in general.

Originally posted by red g jacks
yea i will agree that people on the right life hannity etc will use the gang violence thing as a deflection where as otherwise they don't care that much

but i am trying to use the blm shit as a platform to get people to think about what i think are the serious issues we have in this country with regard to the black community

because i think it's one of the biggest issues in this country, and way bigger than the problem with police brutality. and i think that when liberals point out the connection between the two they often get it wrong - insisting that bad policing is contributing to gang violence. i think it is much more common that gang violence comes from systemic economic conditions, and then as a result of the dangerous conditions in that neighborhood, the police in that neighborhood become more trigger happy.

cops are people at the end of the day, and are fearful for their lives as well.

so i think if we were to somehow tackle the problem with gang violence and other crime related violence in the black community, we would as a result see a lot less of the disproportionate trend of cops shooting unarmed black men.

where as if we just focus on being strict on the police in terms of police brutality... this will do very little to help bring the black murder rate down in general.

I agree with that.

I think that there are bigger issues, like poverty, lack of affordable, good education, the racist war on drugs, the prison industrial complex, glorification of violence and gang violence, mistrust of police by communities, etc.

I also agree that the racist police violence is a two way street. A lot of it is not outright racism and just a relatively subtle, perhaps mostly unconscious, change of how you treat white suspects vs. black suspects. However that has large consequences, not just in the number of black people killed by police, but also the aforementioned distrust of communities, the increased imprisonment of black people, etc. etc.

So I do think it is a very big issue, and I think it is an issue that can be worked on through exposure, like BLM is trying to do. And that one of the tools that people who do not want this to happen is to distract when the topic is discussed by bringing up gang violence instead (that does not mean that everyone that does it, does so maliciously, of course)

At the same time we should of course work on gang violence, but tbh, we are, we spend a lot of money on police, and we try all sorts of projects, however, politicians are divided by their views, so some things that I think would be very effective (and that I think you also think would be effective) are not supported, because Republicans in particular don't think it is worthwhile to spend money on them

Originally posted by Bardock42
I agree with that.

I think that there are bigger issues, like poverty, lack of affordable, good education, the racist war on drugs, the prison industrial complex, glorification of violence and gang violence, mistrust of police by communities, etc.

but i think that what it really comes down to is priorities.. a lot of the BLM activists are honestly a bit disconnected from the reality in the hood because groups like this tend to pop up in universities... where the students typically come from a decent background. so they just don't know what to do about hood problems.

but in my opinion, what needs to happen is we have to find a way to show kids that they have access to route out of poverty via education... that is the most challenging thing to sell in the hood i think. that is where BLM should focus their efforts.

with the police thing... i am all for cameras on cops and shit like that. but i think the way BLM campaigns is to paint the police as the ememy of black people.. which if anything is counterproductive and antagonistic.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Of course everyone who doesn't agree with them is racist. Even racists realize this, which is why they don't generally say "I disagree with BLM" but "I disagree with their methods" or "Lets talk about black on black violence instead, I'm more comfortable with that, thanks"

You have said or implied a few times.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think you are oversimplifying that issue. For one the issue that people that are pro-palestine are about is generally not casting Israel off their land, but casting them off the occupied territories in Gaza and the West Bank. Pretty much everyone on the left who feels Israel is mistreating Palestinians agrees that Israel has the right to exist and protect itself, but that it is overstepping this and thereby causing one of the biggest humanitarian crisis we face today.

I agree with working on achieving the best results, however I am not sure whether the kind of left protest movements that are becoming more popular aren't actually ultimately an effective way to achieve the goal.

Regarding Israel, we have to sadly say that we are now further away from a peaceful end than we were 20 years ago, in part because of the rise of the far-right within Israel after the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin.

YouTube video

either way, i wasn't saying that leftists in america or europe are trying to destroy israel. but many anti israel activists are dogmatically anti israel to the point of refusing to even condemn terror groups like hamas... and many pro israel activists are dogmatic in the opposite direction by refusing to condemn any actions of the state

my point wasn't actually about the israel issue but about how student activist groups tend to act/think

Originally posted by red g jacks
i agree in a way... yet that list seems a little intimidating in terms of its scope.. seems like each should have it's own platform

but i think that what it really comes down to is priorities.. a lot of the BLM activists are honestly a bit disconnected from the reality in the hood because groups like this tend to pop up in universities... where the students typically come from a decent background. so they just don't know what to do about hood problems.

but in my opinion, what needs to happen is we have to find a way to show kids that they have access to route out of poverty via education... that is the most challenging thing to sell in the hood i think. that is where BLM should focus their efforts.

with the police thing... i am all for cameras on cops and shit like that. but i think the way BLM campaigns is to paint the police as the ememy of black people.. which if anything is counterproductive and antagonistic.

I think the way out of poverty via education is a hard sell in these communities because it is very hard to impossible to achieve, I think its a policy issue that needs to change to make it actually true that ways out of poverty through education are attainable.

Here's the thing though, why does BLM have to focus on a different issue? We all agree the issue they talk about is an issue, and sure, you and others think that there are issues that should be a higher priority, but why does the BLM movement have to tackle them, shouldn't you and the people who feel that way start their own movement instead?

What Gould you know about black lives matter sitting in Germany?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
What Gould you know about black lives matter sitting in Germany?

Like...most things?

Based on what? What movement of theirs have you ever been apart of?

I never claimed to be part of the BLM movement...

No but you just attach yourself to any racial divisive controversy and act like its ambassador and act like you have all the info and authority for the movement.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
No but you just attach yourself to any racial divisive controversy and act like its ambassador and act like you have all the info and authority for the movement.

Ok, if you have an issue with the content of my posts maybe address that directly, then we can discuss it.

Its your attitude in general. You live in a rich Caucasian Capitalistic country, you work for your dad who owns a profitable company. Yet you act like like a socialist liberal always blaming white people and everything on everyone else. Have you not figured out that your life is the life liberals hate. And your living a hypocritical lie?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Its your attitude in general. You live in a rich Caucasian Capitalistic country, you work for your dad who owns a profitable company. Yet you act like like a socialist liberal always blaming white people and everything on everyone else. Have you not figured out that your life is the life liberals hate. And your living a hypocritical lie?

Actually my country subscribes to a social market economy, not a free capitalist one.

I understand that I seem incredibly leftist from your far right point of view, it's probably hard to tell me apart from a Marxist, partly cause you are just not very educated anyways, but I'm really not. I believe in capitalism (with social safety nets), I believe in freedom of expression, etc. I just also believe that we should have social programs that help disadvantaged people, that give the children of disadvantaged people more equal chance, and I believe that we have racism and sexism problems that we should work on. That doesn't make me a socialist.

At any rate, if you want to address my points you should do so, like others have in this thread, if you just want to discuss your perception of my personality and personal life I will not humor you furhter.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think the way out of poverty via education is a hard sell in these communities because it is very hard to impossible to achieve, I think its a policy issue that needs to change to make it actually true that ways out of poverty through education are attainable.

i have seen this sort of thing for years... a kid starts making 1000 dollars a month selling drugs and doesn't see much reason to buckle down and to earn academic success.

Here's the thing though, why does BLM have to focus on a different issue? We all agree the issue they talk about is an issue, and sure, you and others think that there are issues that should be a higher priority, but why does the BLM movement have to tackle them, shouldn't you and the people who feel that way start their own movement instead?

i'm not championing black lives as my top priority... i'm only pointing out that the people who are attempting to do so are picking the wrong fights to the extent that they must either not know about the main threats to black lives or simply not care.

You only believe in freedom of expression when it's somone doing it who you agree with. If it's not, you just chant racist.

I am more educated then you. About to be going back to school. You are a Marxists far far left of even Hilary Clinton. Your own personal life doesn't not even represent the persona you try and be online. When is the last time you have supported any minority movement. Do you give your own personal wealth away for your neo progressive beliefs?

I doubt it, you just preach here online and expect us all to fall in line with you, then when we don't you throw insults like you just did at me, and scream racist a bit louder. The term liberal for you would be to far right of where you are at.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i disagree because i went to a school in the ghetto which provided many opportunities for a decent education and path out of poverty, yet there was an overall apathetic attitude towards education in the kids from the community in which the school was built. the school was in a lower class ghetto and had recieved funding from the state to have magnent programs togive the kids there a chance to succeed... yet so few local students signed up for the magnent programs that the school eventually started bussing in kids from the suburbs who otherwise wouldn't have gone to taht school who were actually interested in the magnet programs.

i have seen this sort of thing for years... a kid starts making 1000 dollars a month selling drugs and doesn't see much reason to buckle down and to earn academic success.

because the name of their movement is black lives matter... which is intentionally provocative because they are championing themselves as the defenders of black lives. so the fact that they ignore the main cause of the devaluing of black lives undercuts their credibility.

i'm not championing black lives as my top priority... i'm only pointing out that the people who are attempting to do so are picking the wrong fights to the extent that they must either not know about the main threats to black lives or simply not care.

It's a more complicated problem though, because you have to take into account their home life, potential pressures of peers, etc. And do you think that this experience is the norm, because I've read a lot of articles on schools that are severely underfunded, and suffer from violence problems that would definitely make it extremely hard for me to focus on education.

--

But that's not the etymology of their name. That's just how some people have taken it. Their name is Black Lives Matter, because it is apparent that black lives don't matter as much to police officers. Again, gang violence is not based on gangs valuing black lives less, they have a disregard for live of any color. So again, this movement, from the start, was about racial violence of police officers, trying to get them to focus on a different issue is really just a deflection, one that's maliciously championed by places like FOX News, and that inadvertently gets furthered by people who probably don't have bad intentions, but still basically are a tool to preserve the status quo.

I'm actually worried about what is going to happen here once they release that video of the black teen getting shot 16 times by a cop.

Originally posted by Surtur
I'm actually worried about what is going to happen here once they release that video of the black teen getting shot 16 times by a cop.

I think the dynamic is a little different in this case, because the system is working properly, albeit slowly, to try the officer, instead of protect him, and the city has already settled with the family.

The push for the release of the video is coming from the prosecutor and the judge, because they believe for people to trust the system, there needs to be transparency, even though the family is on record stating they do not want it released.

I think the determining factor in whether people respond to alleged police misconduct with violence is how the system responds to said misconduct.