master Zao vs Yoda, philosophical discussion only

Originally posted by redpill
george bush got the us involved in the iraq war.
in the end it led to instability and the rise of isis which among other things led to a terrorist attack in paris

was that wise?

adolf hitler got nazi germany involved in a war with the soviet union and it resulted in the complete destruction of nazi germany

was that wise?

jefferson davis got the confederate involved in a war with the Union and resulted in teh destruction of the South as an independent nation.

was that wise?

yoda is supposed to be a jedi

this is fundamental jedi value

"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack."
―Yoda[src]

what does yoda do? he gets fellow jedis involved in a war as jedi generals that resulted in teh complete destruction of the order, and corruption within as noted by bariss offee in tcw

zao clearly stated jedi participation of the war is a betrayal of jedi code and refused to fight.

if you call someone wise but they make decisions that subvert their order, pervert and corrupt them betray their fundamental values and leads to the destruction of the order, and another person is less wise but avoids making such decisions which is wiser?

when order 66 came down there was an attempt by the clone arc troopers to kill yoda in the heat of battle on kashykk as the result of earlier decisions and commitments yoda made

no clone trooper recognized zao as a jedi as the result of earlier decisions and commitments zao made.

if yoda and zao switched places so that yoda was living anonymously on dagobah and only a few jedi knew him and who he was and zao was leading the clone troopers and shot down d you still wiser?

That has what to do with Yoda and Zao? No one ever said Bush was wise. Bush had a choice with Iraq, Yoda never had a choice with the clone wars.

Above.

Again above. Hitler had a choice to enter a war. Yoda never did. Find some situations that actually are similar to Yoda.

Above.

Yoda is the head of the Jedi, the wisest of them all.

The force is used for defense. Remember Yoda's tutaminis and how he never used it offensively agaisnt Dooku in AOTC except to counter. That's a preference really. All Jedi use the the force for offense.

Are you an idiot. How many times do we all have to show you that Yoda never had a choice in getting involved in the Clone wars. The Jedi SERVE the republic, they have a sworn oath to protect the republic, so he had no choice but to be in the clone wars.

Betrayal? How? They are fighting droids so it's not like their killing living things. Throughout the war Yoda says the force we shall meditate on, or the force shall guide us, or the force shall give us the answer. At least Yoda did something. He tried to stop the dark side while if Zao was leader the he would have just let the Sith rule the galaxy without so much as a skirmish and the universe woudl have just been ruled by the Sith with no one to fight back.

Well that would interest me if Yoda did any unwise things. Yoda is most likely the second wisest character(mortal)after Luke Skywalker.

No order 66 was made by Darth Sidious through manipulation and clouding the Jedi's vision.

Or maybe he just wasn't found? Also if they found him they would have killed him because he practiced the force.

Yoda beats Zao in every category. Except making soup.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
That has what to do with Yoda and Zao? No one ever said Bush was wise. Bush had a choice with Iraq, Yoda never had a choice with the clone wars.

Above.

Again above. Hitler had a choice to enter a war. Yoda never did. Find some situations that actually are similar to Yoda.

Above.

Yoda is the head of the Jedi, the wisest of them all.

The force is used for defense. Remember Yoda's tutaminis and how he never used it offensively agaisnt Dooku in AOTC except to counter. That's a preference really. All Jedi use the the force for offense.

Are you an idiot. How many times do we all have to show you that Yoda never had a choice in getting involved in the Clone wars. The Jedi SERVE the republic, they have a sworn oath to protect the republic, so he had no choice but to be in the clone wars.

Betrayal? How? They are fighting droids so it's not like their killing living things. Throughout the war Yoda says the force we shall meditate on, or the force shall guide us, or the force shall give us the answer. At least Yoda did something. He tried to stop the dark side while if Zao was leader the he would have just let the Sith rule the galaxy without so much as a skirmish and the universe woudl have just been ruled by the Sith with no one to fight back.

Well that would interest me if Yoda did any unwise things. Yoda is most likely the second wisest character(mortal)after Luke Skywalker.

No order 66 was made by Darth Sidious through manipulation and clouding the Jedi's vision.

Or maybe he just wasn't found? Also if they found him they would have killed him because he practiced the force.

Yoda beats Zao in every category. Except making soup.

as Zao clearly shows

Yoda had a choice. He could have chosen NOT to have gotten involved in the clone wars. He could have also allowed any Jedi who were consciousness objectors to opt-out. Yoda could have personally left the order and followed Zao's example and/or recommended Jedis not participate.

Yoda did NOT make that choice. Zao did. and left the Jedi order. and Zao made his choice based on wisdom.

did you read what Zao said to Tholme?

Jedi have a choice. Zao stated as a Jedi he cannot participate in the clone wars.

was Zao a jedi general? if not how can you say Yoda had no choice?

Yoda could have followed Zao's example and left and meditate on the force on Dagobah

Originally posted by redpill
as Zao clearly shows

Yoda had a choice. He could have chosen NOT to have gotten involved in the clone wars. He could have also allowed any Jedi who were consciousness objectors to opt-out. Yoda could have personally left the order and followed Zao's example and/or recommended Jedis not participate.

Yoda did NOT make that choice. Zao did. and left the Jedi order. and Zao made his choice based on wisdom.

did you read what Zao said to Tholme?

Jedi have a choice. Zao stated as a Jedi he cannot participate in the clone wars.

was Zao a jedi general? if not how can you say Yoda had no choice?

Yoda could have followed Zao's example and left and meditate on the force on Dagobah

So you and Zao agree that Yoda had no choice but to enter the war. Finally.

No he didn't. Jedi serve the republic. Republic says you're in the war, then you're in the war. Jedi are the keepers and protectors of the republic, of the Galaxy, so by leaving the Jedi they aren't doing their job. Seems like Zao failed his job.

What choice? Yoda had no choice.

It doesn't matter. Yoda had no choice. Yoda is the wisest and that's the end of it.

Zao fell down on the job. The Jedi are bound to the Republic. They had no choice.

No Zal was not a Jedi general. It's very easy. Yoda is the leader of the Jedi order, the order that was employed basically to the republic. They served it. They had to enter the war.

Yoda is wiser. End of story.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
So you and Zao agree that Yoda had no choice but to enter the war. Finally.

No he didn't. Jedi serve the republic. Republic says you're in the war, then you're in the war. Jedi are the keepers and protectors of the republic, of the Galaxy, so by leaving the Jedi they aren't doing their job. Seems like Zao failed his job.

What choice? Yoda had no choice.

It doesn't matter. Yoda had no choice. Yoda is the wisest and that's the end of it.

Zao fell down on the job. The Jedi are bound to the Republic. They had no choice.

No Zal was not a Jedi general. It's very easy. Yoda is the leader of the Jedi order, the order that was employed basically to the republic. They served it. They had to enter the war.

Yoda is wiser. End of story.

I don't agree Yoda could have entered the war.

there are many ways the Yoda could have had the jedi serve teh republic that do not involve war. as diplomats as auxilaries as healers as peace keepers and as pacifists

Wisdom also involves insight and discernment. Yoda did not discern any problems with serving a corrupted sith-led republic, even after Dooku warned obi wan.

Zao's insight and discernment surpasses Yoda in that he clearly saw the republic was corrupt and not worth serving.

Zao is therefore wiser

Originally posted by redpill
I don't agree Yoda could have entered the war.

there are many ways the Yoda could have had the jedi serve teh republic that do not involve war. as diplomats as auxilaries as healers as peace keepers and as pacifists

Wisdom also involves insight and discernment. Yoda did not discern any problems with serving a corrupted sith-led republic, even after Dooku warned obi wan.

Zao's insight and discernment surpasses Yoda in that he clearly saw the republic was corrupt and not worth serving.

Zao is therefore wiser

Yea you do since you said Zao clearly showed Yoda had no choice.

No there weren't. In all ways possible that were legal I, they do everything the senate and the chancellor say unless it,comes down to their personal traditions like inducting new members. Other than that they are servants of the republic, the protectors and the war was to protect and preserve the republic so they had no choice.

Yoda had those two. Anakin Mace and Obi wan and in some cases Palaptine(fake) went to,Yoda for,advice and his insight, he urged everyone to meditate on their problems and especially Anakin and he watched over the Jedi. Like Yoda said, "joined the Sith Dooku has now. Lies, deceit, and trickery, are his ways now". So why would you trust anything you say especially about someone who runs the same government you protect?

Yoda surpasses every Jedi except Luke skywalker in wisdom. Yoda is truly the wisest of all with the exception of Luke and the ones.

Yoda wins. End of story.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yea you do since you said Zao clearly showed Yoda had no choice.

No there weren't. In all ways possible that were legal I, they do everything the senate and the chancellor say unless it,comes down to their personal traditions like inducting new members. Other than that they are servants of the republic, the protectors and the war was to protect and preserve the republic so they had no choice.

Yoda had those two. Anakin Mace and Obi wan and in some cases Palaptine(fake) went to,Yoda for,advice and his insight, he urged everyone to meditate on their problems and especially Anakin and he watched over the Jedi. Like Yoda said, "joined the Sith Dooku has now. Lies, deceit, and trickery, are his ways now". So why would you trust anything you say especially about someone who runs the same government you protect?

Yoda surpasses every Jedi except Luke skywalker in wisdom. Yoda is truly the wisest of all with the exception of Luke and the ones.

Yoda wins. End of story.

what i said was

as Zao clearly shows

Yoda had a choice.

not Yoda did NOT have a choice.

Yoda could have foreseen the damage to the Jedi order's reputation and the risk it puts its members by having its members serve as generals, as opposed to diplomats, peace keeprs, and healers.

why serve only the republic? aren't separatists sentient beings also deserving of respect and healing from the jedi?

Originally posted by redpill
what i said was

as Zao clearly shows

Yoda had a choice.

not Yoda did NOT have a choice.

Yoda could have foreseen the damage to the Jedi order's reputation and the risk it puts its members by having its members serve as generals, as opposed to diplomats, peace keeprs, and healers.

why serve only the republic? aren't separatists sentient beings also deserving of respect and healing from the jedi?

Oh well the way you type I'm not used to. I'm used to everything you mean for that point being on one line then move on to the next. However it doesn't matter, Yoda is wiser deal with it.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Oh well the way you type I'm not used to. I'm used to everything you mean for that point being on one line then move on to the next. However it doesn't matter, Yoda is wiser deal with it.

by what standard? yoda's wisdom resulted in the total destruction of the jedi order by a subverted sith led republic.

zao saw the republic was corrupt, and that jedi should not serve as generals.

thats wisdom.

and what about jedi obligations to separatists sentients? yoda clearly had jedi serving only the republic with no regard for separatists.

Originally posted by redpill
by what standard? yoda's wisdom resulted in the total destruction of the jedi order by a subverted sith led republic.

zao saw the republic was corrupt, and that jedi should not serve as generals.

thats wisdom.

and what about jedi obligations to separatists sentients? yoda clearly had jedi serving only the republic with no regard for separatists.

The fact that fact files say Yoda is wiser. Yoda is wiser. End of story.

Yusanis Zeilon is secretly Redpill

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The fact that fact files say Yoda is wiser. Yoda is wiser. End of story.

Are people (i.e. redpill) really arguing here that Yoda isn't the wisest Jedi Master, kek?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The fact that fact files say Yoda is wiser. Yoda is wiser. End of story.

yoda's decision resulted in the perversion of several jedi such as pong krell and quinlan vos and anakin skywalker and the turning of public opinion against the jedi and the total destruction of the order and the ascension of the sith.even after he saw this in a vision.

some wisdom

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Are people (i.e. redpill) really arguing here that Yoda isn't the wisest Jedi Master, kek?

Originally posted by redpill
zao refused to fight for the corrupt republic. he has shown greater wisdom than yoda

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That wasn't really Yoda's choice, last time I checked.

he was grand master of the order. he had choice.

if he wanted to he could have the jedi serve the separatists against the republic.

or serve as healers or diplomats or the red cross providing food and medical supplies.

BTW redpill, you never answered my question.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That wasn't really Yoda's choice, last time I checked.

He was the leader of an Order who's motto is "the guardians of peace and justice in the Galactic Republic."

One could argue the militarization of the Jedi was a sign of lack of wisdom, but provide proof it was Yoda who did it.

Originally posted by Aurbere
BTW redpill, you never answered my question.

Originally posted by redpill
he was grand master of the order. he had choice.

if he wanted to he could have the jedi serve the separatists against the republic.

or serve as healers or diplomats or the red cross providing food and medical supplies.

The Separatists were in league with the Sith. You're basically saying that Yoda could have had the Jedi ally themselves with their sworn enemy for no reason.

And the Jedi did serve as both healers and diplomats. You see this so many times in the Republic comics.