master Zao vs Yoda, philosophical discussion only

Started by Aurbere13 pages
Originally posted by redpill
i forget what was ur ?

Originally posted by Aurbere
I'm aware of what the butterfly effect is. But as has been said before, that changes only one thing: How the Jedi die. They would still be eradicated no matter what path was taken.

You have yet to prove that Zao is wiser than Yoda based on this philosophy. At best you can say they are equally wise. But unlike Zao, Yoda actually did something to stop the rise of the dark side. Zao was perfectly content to let darkness win. How is that wise?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
👆 Yoda wasn't the dictator of the Jedi Order. He didn't really do anything without the approval of the council.

He was the leader of an Order who's motto is "the guardians of peace and justice in the Galactic Republic."

One could argue the militarization of the Jedi was a sign of lack of wisdom, but provide proof it was Yoda who did it.

yoda should have used wisdom to persuade the order to follow a different path than the one they actually took which directly led to their complete and total destruction.

Originally posted by Aurbere

oh iirc did u get a chance to re-read the republic issues w/ zao in his discussion with tholme?

my reply to your answer makes use of that conversation

Originally posted by redpill
yoda should have used wisdom to persuade the order to follow a different path than the one they actually took which directly led to their complete and total destruction.

Prove it was Yoda's choice / could do anything about the militarization of Jedi.

Originally posted by redpill
yoda should have used wisdom to persuade the order to follow a different path than the one they actually took which directly led to their complete and total destruction.
Yoda was quite awful.

Originally posted by redpill
oh iirc did u get a chance to re-read the republic issues w/ zao in his discussion with tholme?

my reply to your answer makes use of that conversation

Don't have them on me, so just explain.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Are people (i.e. redpill) really arguing here that Yoda isn't the wisest Jedi Master, kek?
That's the best part is he was the wisest of that order. That's why they were decimated.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Prove it was Yoda's choice / could do anything about the militarization of Jedi.
as grand master yoda could have simply persuaded the jedi to follow a different path.

as in a speech. even mace windu defers to yoda's "wisdom"

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's the best part is he was the wisest of that order. That's why they were decimated.
strictly speaking zao left the order

Originally posted by redpill
as grand master yoda could have simply persuaded the jedi to follow a different path.

as in a speech. even mace windu defers to yoda's "wisdom"


He would try to persuade the Jedi to abandon their duties to the Galactic Republic that they held for 20,000 years?

😂 Let's see how that works out for him. It's not like Yoda wanted / supported the war. He really had no choice.

Originally posted by redpill
strictly speaking zao left the order
The Jedi were always weak.

Originally posted by Aurbere
Don't have them on me, so just explain.

what is the force?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Force

"Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together."
―Obi-Wan Kenobi — Gnome-speakernotesListen (file info)[src]

The Force was a metaphysical, spiritual, binding, and ubiquitous power that held enormous importance for both the Jedi and Sith monastic orders. Known as the Way in ancient times, the Force was viewed in many different aspects, including, but not limited to, the light side, the dark side, the Living Force, the Unifying Force, the Cosmic Force, and the Physical Force. The first two aspects were concerned with the moral compass of the Force, as manifested by the conduct and emotions of living creatures who were themselves part of the fabric of the Force. The light side of the Force was the facet aligned with compassion, selflessness, self-knowledge and enlightenment, healing, mercy and benevolence, while the dark side of the Force was the element aligned with hatred, fear, covetousness, anger, aggression, jealousy and malevolence. The latter four aspects were defined by prominent Jedi philosophies: The Living Force dealt with the energy of living things; the Unifying Force, with the entirety of space and time; the Cosmic Force, with life after death; and the Physical Force, with anything within one's surroundings. Though the Force was categorized in this way, there were no specific abilities or powers that were only usable by a follower of a particular path of the Force; the Force partially existed inside the life forms that used it, and drew energy from their emotions.

Some beings, particularly the Sith, believed that the dark side of the Force was more powerful than the light, though it was possible that the dark side was just more tempting to those who used it (or desired to use it). Others thought of the Force as an entity capable of intelligent thought, almost as a sort of deity. Anakin Skywalker, who was believed to have been conceived by the Force itself, may have shared this belief; if this was indeed the case, it would add credence towards the view of the Force as a sentient entity. Though the Force was thought to flow through every living thing, its power could only be harnessed by beings described as "Force-sensitive." This Force-sensitivity was correlated with, and sometimes attributed to, a high count of internal microorganisms called midi-chlorians that were found in a Force-sensitive's blood: the higher the count, the greater the being's potential Force ability, though there were some exceptions to this rule. Force-sensitive beings were able to tap into the Force to perform acts of great skill and agility as well as control and shape the world around them. Sometimes this ability was described as having a strong Force "aura".

Zao's view is the jedi participation in a corrupt war unbalances the force.

zao's soup is also about balance in the force. zao explained it wasn't just soup he is making but that soup represents balance in the force

zao would have the force balance and pacifism is the only way to maintain that balance.

as soon as jedi decided to fight in the clone wars and lead the clone troopers, their decision resulted in the force being un-balanced

BTW, the Council was very much against the war, but they supported the Republic because they didn't have a choice.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He would try to persuade the Jedi to abandon their duties to the Galactic Republic that they held for 20,000 years?

😂 Let's see how that works out for him. It's not like Yoda wanted / supported the war. He really had no choice.

they could fulfill their duties as the red cross, limited to healing diplomacy and food and medical supply delivers

what about healing the separatist sentients?

@redpill, the Force was out of balance for well over a decade before the Clone Wars, so that's obviously false.

Originally posted by Aurbere
BTW, the Council was very much against the war, but they supported the Republic because they didn't have a choice.

they could fulfill their duties as the red cross, limited to healing diplomacy and food and medical supply delivers

what about healing the separatist sentients?

Originally posted by Aurbere
@redpill, the Force was out of balance for well over a decade before the Clone Wars, so that's obviously false.

participating as generals leading clone troopers is restoring that balance?

Originally posted by redpill
they could fulfill their duties as the red cross, limited to healing diplomacy and food and medical supply delivers

what about healing the separatist sentients?

1. They did serve as medical/diplomatic/ambassadorial personnel, as seen in the Republic comics and TCW. Not all Jedi have that capability, and some specialize in combat. Why wouldn't they use that to aid those being oppressed by the Separatists? You're suggesting that while the Separatists commit mass genocide, chemical warfare, and other atrocities, the Jedi should do nothing?

2. You ask that the Jedi lend assistance to the people serving the Sith?

Originally posted by redpill
participating as generals leading clone troopers is restoring that balance?

Only the Chosen One can do that 👆

Originally posted by Aurbere
1. They did serve as medical/diplomatic/ambassadorial personnel, as seen in the Republic comics and TCW. Not all Jedi have that capability, and some specialize in combat. Why wouldn't they use that to aid those being oppressed by the Separatists? You're suggesting that while the Separatists commit mass genocide, chemical warfare, and other atrocities, the Jedi should do nothing?

2. You ask that the Jedi lend assistance to the people serving the Sith?

yoda asked all the jedi to serve the sith under the guise of emperor palpatine