Kylo Ren vs Darth Vader

Originally posted by ares834
It says Kylo seemed to be "enjoying" the fight and later on says it was "play".

So yes, toying is exactly what was going on.

It was "as if" he was enjoying the fight, in Finn's observation. Curiously, ares, I remember you contesting the idea that Sidious was toying with the Zabraks when the duel first premiered... And we had a lot more evidence of that than we do of Kylo toying with Finn. 👆

Originally posted by ares834
"with a purpose that had been previously lacking" and "It was time for play to end."

He was toying with him. No question.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Sith do enjoy battle.

And this is the definition of play: the conducting of an athletic match or contest.

🙄

It's almost as if people ignore all context to support their own theories. Not to mention it was also stated that Kylo was fighting "with a purpose that had been previously lacking".

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well that's a misquote on Stark's part. It says, "It was time for the play to end." Not play to end. Sounds more poetic than him actually toying with Finn, but it could be read either way.

Its not a misquote. That is a direct line from the novelization. Copied and pasted from the google ebook.

If you say so. Could have sworn I read it different somewhere else. Not that it changes much either way.

Has the book been released? Amazon.com told me it wouldn't be out til like January or some such. mmm

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It was "as if" he was enjoying the fight, in Finn's observation. Curiously, ares, I remember you contesting the idea that Sidious was toying with the Zabraks when the duel first premiered... And we had a lot more evidence of that than we do of Kylo toying with Finn. 👆

Not at all. The text straight up says he was fighting "with a purpose that had been previously lacking" after getting tagged.

And since the episode has premiered and we have gotten more information on the duel, I have conceded that position.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well that's a misquote on Stark's part. It says, "It was time for the play to end." Not play to end. Sounds more poetic than him actually toying with Finn, but it could be read either way.

That does add some more interpretation into the mix. Certainly.

Edit: The book is out on amazon.

Intriguing. Anyway, it certainly didn't seem in the movie like Kylo was "playing" with anybody. When Sidious plays with someone, you see signs: smiles, laughter, various communicators of levity. Kylo was wounded and pissed.

Maybe it's as the movie implies and he's just nowhere near the big dogs?

http://i.imgur.com/fhCc38U.png
Positive. Regardless it outright states that Kylo was 'expecting an execution and he found contest'. It certainly wasn't a no diff pwning by Kylo.

If Kylo played with Finn he is the biggest retard in SW. You don't play with your opponents when you are bleeding out.

Nah, Kylo's definitely pretty skilled, he was a top tier duelist by 15. He's supposed to be incredibly skilled, but probably not used to actually being challenged by anyone else.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nah, Kylo's definitely pretty skilled, he was a top tier duelist by 15. He's supposed to be incredibly skilled, but probably not used to actually being challenged by anyone else.

He wasn't top tier. 😆

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nah, Kylo's definitely pretty skilled, he was a top tier duelist by 15. He's supposed to be incredibly skilled, but probably not used to actually being challenged by anyone else.

wat

I'm not saying Kylo is some enfeebled neophyte. I'm saying the top dogs would eat him alive.

What do you call it when you're better than everyone else, Stark?

@Tempest: I realize. I think it's just supposed to be the nature of canon itself at this point. Normal people can challenge most people not named Vader or Sidious.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What do you call it when you're better than everyone else, Stark?

Me excellent

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Intriguing. Anyway, it certainly didn't seem in the movie like Kylo was "playing" with anybody. When Sidious plays with someone, you see signs: smiles, laughter, various communicators of levity. Kylo was wounded and pissed.

Maybe it's as the movie implies and he's just nowhere near the big dogs?

Kylo isn't Sidious. So I'm not seeing the relevance. Vader isn't laughing when he duels Luke in ESB back either. As for film, he steps back from Finn after knocking him down giving him time to get up again. I certainly got the sense that he wasn't initially giving his all.

And sure, he isn't anywhere near the big dogs. But that doesn't mean he is on a level with Finn either.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
[B]What do you call it when you're better than everyone else, Stark?

So he was better than Luke, Yoda, Sidious, Mace?

Originally posted by ares834
Kylo isn't Sidious.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Originally posted by ares834
So I'm not seeing the relevance. Vader isn't laughing when he duels Luke in ESB back either.

Vader's stoic and wearing a mask. We don't know what's going on under it. Furthermore, Vader wasn't "toying" with Luke. Testing him, sure. But toying with him? Nah.

Originally posted by ares834
As for film, he steps back from Finn after knocking him down giving him time to get up again. I certainly got the sense that he wasn't initially giving his all.

Originally posted by ares834
And sure, he isn't anywhere near the big dogs. But that doesn't mean he is on a level with Finn either.

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that Kylo and Finn are on the same level. What is being suggested is that Kylo's performance, all things considered, against Finn and Rey was pretty damn embarrassing.

I'd like to chime in that Vader got his ass molested by a non-Force sensitive smuggler with a metal pipe before.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'd like to chime in that Vader got his ass molested by a non-Force sensitive smuggler with a metal pipe before.

Wait what? 😆