Kylo Ren vs Darth Vader

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'm sorry Neph, did you actually not watch TCW, or is Temp right? Think it's the latter. Lol@that being why Dooku is polished but Kreia isn't.

It's a single example, lol. You want me to write an essay for you?

Can you seriously argue that Dooku isn't polished? That's like his entire thing. He's a distinguished gentleman who literally wears a cape. Kreia's whole thing is that she's a bitter, crazy old b*tch. What exactly is "polished" about her? That she speaks in a measured manner? She emotes a shitton more than Dooku.

That's the problem, Anakin and Vader are the same character. It's sorta the whole point about the OT. It's always a struggle with his inner darkness.

With that said, if we restrict it the the Vader in the OT the characters are still very different. Their personality, their apparent motivations, all of it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
lol @ Neph

Omg she speaks in hushed tones when she's rude to ppl which conveys depth and nuance and dimension but Dooku has a booming voice and beardsword so when he does it he's just lame cardboard

PLUS SHE WAS MAIMED! DEPTH! she was maimed in a more maimy way than was Dooku

You're silly. I missed you.

I love how defensive you get when someone criticises your favs. Like I said, I'm not writing you an essay on Kreia's character step by step. You want to prove that Dooku's a good character then you're welcome to. Or you can prove that Kreia is "polished and bland" in the same way.

Dooku gets maimed 3 seconds before he dies. It doesn't give him a lot of time to inspire a reaction in me. And even then, as I alluded to, his genuine shock and horror at that point is better than pretty much any other scene he's in. And he still under-emotes. My point was that right at the start of the game Kreia is established as vulnerable and fallible. And that she lets her bitterness and prejudices rule her and several times "blind" her (lol) when she's shown to be flat out wrong or making foolish assumptions. So what exactly is polished about her. Seems to me you just don't like her voice.

I don't understand how anyone can compare this new guy to the villains of PT.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, those are slow. Also, I don't thin there are instances in the OT or ST where fire from several opponents is being deflected.

It's a sword. Finn's exceptional among soldiers who have been bred for combat and trained since birth.

Force users are (in this case) just humans! Humans who have achieved mastery over the mysterious energy that all life forms possess.

I highly doubt its a sword lol

mysterious energy that gives them feats that are impossibly superior to ordinary people who shouldn't be able give them a fight.

They shouldn't be able to. Yet they always do. Vizla, Jango, Hondo, etc...

Originally posted by Nephthys
I love how defensive you get when someone criticises your favs. Like I said, I'm not writing you an essay on Kreia's character step by step. You want to prove that Dooku's a good character then you're welcome to. Or you can prove that Kreia is "polished and bland" in the same way.

Dooku gets maimed 3 seconds before he dies. It doesn't give him a lot of time to inspire a reaction in me. And even then, as I alluded to, his genuine shock and horror at that point is better than pretty much any other scene he's in. And he still under-emotes. My point was that right at the start of the game Kreia is established as vulnerable and fallible. And that she lets her bitterness and prejudices rule her and several times "blind" her (lol) when she's shown to be flat out wrong or making foolish assumptions. So what exactly is polished about her. Seems to me you just don't like her voice.

Nah, I've always told you that you're free to like what you like and dislike what you dislike without judgment. It's all subjective. I just cant help but tease you when you're so transparently biased. Historically, you're the one who gets defensive about such things. Remember how upset you used to get about the Joker and the Dark Knight and how things are objectively good and bad?

Good times.

Meh Dooku is a pretty polished character, and as far as the movies go he's pretty two dimensional. But that doesn't make him any less compelling or bland.

Flat characters exist in literature, Palpatine is a flat character - a stock archetypal Machiavellian villain - and yet he's still fantastic. A flat character's purpose is to act as foils to other rounded characters, and to embody certain characteristics, symbols etc.

Kylo Ren is much more rounded, complex and relatable, yes. But that doesn't make him a better character than Dooku any more than it makes him better than Palpatine, it just makes him different. He serves a different purpose in the story, namely to develop, much like Vader, and in that way engage the audience.

As far as Kreia goes, I would disagree with Tempest's comparison to Dooku. She's hardly two dimensional, she's incredibly flawed, complex, vulnerable and yeah I think relatable and she develops in important ways over the course of the story. Not that that again makes her intrinsically superior to Dooku, just different.

Let's just say you and I vaaaaaaaaastly disagree on Dooku and Kreia. But that's OK... Since this stuff always comes down to preference.

I only said that Dooku was slightly bland.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, I've always told you that you're free to like what you like and dislike what you dislike without judgment. It's all subjective. I just cant help but tease you when you're so transparently biased. Historically, you're the one who gets defensive about such things. Remember how upset you used to get about the Joker and the Dark Knight and how things are objectively good and bad?

Good times.

Yeah, I'm biased. I'm biased because I don't think Dooku in the movies was a compelling villain. Like Beni said, he's flat and two dimensional. So I'm going to say that a character I do think was a strong villain was "more threatening to me" than Dooku. That's certainly what bias is. When you think that somethings bad and then you say that it's bad, that's being biased. I'm glad that we hashed this out, good talk.

The Kreia thing is just that you're flat out wrong and being silly. Thats it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I'm biased

We all know.

One day I'm gonna figure you out. mmm

I'll probe your depths for as long as is necessary.

Dooku was a pretty substandard villain. He was flat and brought nothing original to the films. People are free to like the Jedi turned bad but I was happy he died quite quickly in rots. Wanted him gone ASAP.

Loved Dooku in AOTC. Christopher Lee was great and I enjoyed a dark!Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dooku was a pretty substandard villain. He was flat and brought nothing original to the films. People are free to like the Jedi turned bad but I was happy he died quite quickly in rots. Wanted him gone ASAP.

He actually was quite good in TCWs. And its too bad Dark Rendezvous is n-canon because that also shows him to be quite complex with a jealousy complex and a need to be the best.

Dooku in YDR might be the most multifaceted Sith Lord ever.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Loved Dooku in AOTC. Christopher Lee was great and I enjoyed a dark!Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
He actually was quite good in TCWs. And its too bad Dark Rendezvous is n-canon because that also shows him to be quite complex with a jealousy complex and a need to be the best.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dooku in YDR might be the most multifaceted Sith Lord ever.

Agreed! There's also this notion of him being pained by the death of Qui-Gon (who he viewed as a son) and even in the ROTS novel he still wants to save Kenobi because of the grandfatherly feelings he has towards him.

Dooku is the most developed villain in Star Wars sans perhaps only Vader.

Originally posted by Sinious

I highly doubt its a sword lol

Lucas calls them laser swords in his scripts. Your argument is invalid.