Originally posted by AuraAngel
I know. I'm just self-conscious about my tiny package.It's mostly cause of the bar scene. Mazz says something to the effect that he has the eyes of someone who wants to run and then he....proceeds to prove her correct lol. While it isn't one to one obviously, it does make me think of Han "leaving" at the end of a New Hope because he has zero reason to stay. Han comes back because he has grown fond of Luke(and Leia I suppose) while Finn sticks around to save Rey. It really comes down to their roles in the climax. Without Han, the Rebellion ends on Yavon. End of story. Finn on the other hand...well Rey was handling herself rather well. He really didn't know how to bring down the shields so the heroes needed to think of something else(can't recall if that was his plan or not). While he also gets to fight Ren, his biggest contribution there was ultimately getting the lightsabre in the right place for Rey to get it. He doesn't even get a proper ending, he's just out cold by the end. I wanted more was all.
Again I should stress that the cast of actors is fantastic. They're definitely doing their damndest and my only issues with the characters are in the writing.
Well, sorry if I upset you.
That's a really weird reaction ngl. Surely you're supposed to get invested in Finn at the start of the movie where you're introduced to him as very sympathetic and then watch him be cool, funny and adorable throughout the movie. About the bar scene, Maz is correct and that's the point. He does run but the important thing is that he comes back. The fact that he's so scared to the First Order makes it more powerful when he charges into the middle of their superweapon to rescue Rey without a plan and ends up challenging Kylo ****ing Ren to a swordfight. Finn's "arc" throughout the movie is his hero complex. He tries to play the hero by rescuing Poe, he rushes over to save Rey, he grabs her hand all the time and after they get blasted he asks her if she's alright despite him being the hurt one. But when Maz calls him out he admits that he just wants to run away. After Rey is captured though he actually does fully step up and by the end of the movie he establishes himself as a true hero. He doesn't "accomplish" much sure, by as a personal character arc I thought it was pretty great. And he has a lot of really endearing character traits and is one of the funniest characters.
I like him. Alot. He's neat.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
He's got the swagger of a Han Solo, and he's obviously a pilot, not a Prince. But his role in the film closely resembles Leia's. He's the guy with the Resistance. He's the one who's on the mission to get these plans, and he's the one who hides them in his droid on a dessert planet, he's the one who gets captured and escapes with help.Also like Leia, his character doesn't change during the film. He's the same person at the beginning that he is at the end, very unlike Han Solo, Luke Skywalker (ANH)
Except he gets rescued early on and has a different character dynamic with the rest of the cast (well, Finn and BB-8). And he's the one blowing up the death star at the end instead of Rey and doing other piloting.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
and very unlike Finn and Poe in TFA.
:I
Originally posted by Darth Thor
She (Rey) is without any parents on a dessert planet, but has a greater destiny with the Force which she's reluctant to accept when she first meets Han, until she's told her parents are not coming back. She loves ships and it a great pilot. The end of the movie comes down to her and Kylo on Starkillerbase, where she discovers the true power of the Force in herself.He (Luke) was an Orphan on a dessert planet, but has a greater destiny with the Force which he's reluctant to accept when he first meets Old Ben, until he's seen his adopted parents are dead. He loves ships and is a great pilot. The end of the movie comes down to him and Vader where he discovers the true power of the Force in himself.
^ Pretty damn similar arc IMO.
No, not really! You're just twisting the facts around and phrasing them similarly. Which you continue to do. I can do it too: Joseph Joestar grew up without parents, but has a greater destiny with Hamon that he's reluctant to accept until he's told Speedwagon is dead. He likes planes and is a good pilot. At the end of the series it comes down to him and Kars where he discovers the true power of Hamon in himself.
vs
Totes the same!
Luke grew up with friends and a family his whole life until they're murdered. Rey grew up completely alone and has a different backstory that she's hung up on. Rey isn't aware of her Force powers when she meets Han, so their dynamic is different and so is Rey's path through the movie. She's not reluctant about that until later. Also Rey runs away when she's told her parents (or whatever) aren't coming back. Luke instantly runs off with Ben. Also Luke doesn't really "love" ships, he's just a good pilot like all force users. Rey's into them because she's a scavenger and dreams of flying away. And Vader gets taken out by Han and Luke only uses the Force afterwards, whereas Rey duels Kylo Ren solo and spends half the movie using the Force.
Rey's arc through the movie all about her struggle with her past and of letting go and eventually accepting her Force powers and thus her destiny outside of Jakku. Luke.... doesn't really have an arc he's just getting a grasp of the Force. Rey and Luke also have very different character dynamics. Luke doesn't even meet Vader until the second movie. Whereas Rey gets captured halfway through. Kind of like Leia gets captured and interrogated except Rey gets her Force powers awakened by Ren and then busts herself out. She also does a bunch of different things than Luke like her scavenging on Jakku, her piloting in the escape, her visions etc etc.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Old Ben comes across Luke who is in trouble. Tells Luke of how Vader was once his pupil who betrayed and murdered the Jedi. Old Ben asks Luke to come with him and to join him. Old Ben confronts his former Apprentice and dies at his hands, but not before making sure the Tractor beam was out of commission so the Rebellion could destroy the Death Star.Old Han comes across Rey who is in trouble. Tells Rey how Kylo Ren (his son) betrayed and murdered the Jedi. Old Han asks Rey to come with him and to join his crew. Old Han confronts his Son and dies at his hands, but not before making sure he implanted the explosives so the Resistance could destroy the Stakiller Base.
^ Sounds like pretty similar Character Arcs and Roles to me despite the differences in personalities and job descriptions that you're pointing out.
Lmao "Old Han". He's never called that, you're just making them seem more similar than they are. Han wants to get his son back whereas Obi-Wan fights Vader. Han also just offers Rey a job, which she refuses, unlike Obi-Wan who trains Luke. Rey doesn't really need a mentor, unlike Luke. Also Han has much more of a story about Ben compared to Obi-Wans brief touching on his history with Vader. Obi-Wans all about Luke while Han's all about his son. Han also does more and has his own subplot with those gangs that are after him.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
On top of that:Resistance = Rebellion
First Order = Empire
Starkillerbase = Death Star
Plot revolving around hidden plans in a droid = Plot revolving around hidden plans in a droid
You already said that.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
This film was a blatant rehash of ANH, just in a sequel format, and with some changes (obviously) including new personalities. And even people praising this movie are not denying that, so not sure why you are. It's a very fair criticism of the film tbh. Whether it bothers you or not is a different thing.
It's not that important and the similarities are overblown. What matters is that it's really good, which it is.
Originally posted by NephthysExcept he gets rescued early on and has a different character dynamic with the rest of the cast (well, Finn and BB-8). And he's the one blowing up the death star at the end instead of Rey and doing other piloting.
The characters are different. But the plot is the same. We're just seeing new personalities going through the same plot.
And that's clear by the "differences" you're bringing up- in ANH it was Luke piloting to blow up the death star, but in TFA it's Poe who has Leia's role at the beginning 😬
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, not really! You're just twisting the facts around and phrasing them similarly. Which you continue to do.
No I'm correctly pointing out this is a rehash of ANH. Having different personalities involved doesn't change that.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I can do it too: Joseph Joestar grew up without parents, but has a greater destiny with Hamon that he's reluctant to accept until he's told Speedwagon is dead. He likes planes and is a good pilot. At the end of the series it comes down to him and Kars where he discovers the true power of Hamon in himself.Totes the same!
In his story is there also secret plans hidden in a droid sent to a dessert planet? And is there also a Planet Destroying Death Star to destroy at the end of the movie before it blows up the Rebellion/Resistance?
Don't think so.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Luke grew up with friends and a family his whole life until they're murdered. Rey grew up completely alone and has a different backstory that she's hung up on. Rey isn't aware of her Force powers when she meets Han, so their dynamic is different and so is Rey's path through the movie. She's not reluctant about that until later. Also Rey runs away when she's told her parents (or whatever) aren't coming back. Luke instantly runs off with Ben. Also Luke doesn't really "love" ships, he's just a good pilot like all force users. Rey's into them because she's a scavenger and dreams of flying away. And Vader gets taken out by Han and Luke only uses the Force afterwards, whereas Rey duels Kylo Ren solo and spends half the movie using the Force.Rey's arc through the movie all about her struggle with her past and of letting go and eventually accepting her Force powers and thus her destiny outside of Jakku. Luke.... doesn't really have an arc he's just getting a grasp of the Force. Rey and Luke also have very different character dynamics. Luke doesn't even meet Vader until the second movie. Whereas Rey gets captured halfway through. Kind of like Leia gets captured and interrogated except Rey gets her Force powers awakened by Ren and then busts herself out. She also does a bunch of different things than Luke like her scavenging on Jakku, her piloting in the escape, her visions etc etc.
So TFA moving the characters around a bit, and make a few changes to characters backgrounds just negates copying ANH's plot?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lmao "Old Han". He's never called that, you're just making them seem more similar than they are. Han wants to get his son back whereas Obi-Wan fights Vader. Han also just offers Rey a job, which she refuses, unlike Obi-Wan who trains Luke. Rey doesn't really need a mentor, unlike Luke. Also Han has much more of a story about Ben compared to Obi-Wans brief touching on his history with Vader. Obi-Wans all about Luke while Han's all about his son. Han also does more and has his own subplot with those gangs that are after him.
You're pointing out really minor differences. Old Han is the Old Ben role in this.
Basically you're argument is "it's not exactly the same movie.. I can point out everything that's different."
I'm saying it's a clear rehash. Plot taken straight from ANH, but made into a sequel format, with different personalities fulfilling the same roles.
Originally posted by Nephthys
You already said that.
Because you seem to be ignoring how hard they've worked to rehash ANH.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It's not that important and the similarities are overblown. What matters is that it's really good, which it is.
It's very important. I didn't pay to go see a rehash of ANH. I paid to watch a NEW Star Wars movie.
This movie has it's moments, but for the first time a Star Wars movie is lacking imagination.
First, let me say I've thoroughly enjoyed the mental gymnastics some of you have employed in vain attempts to justify this movie's unoriginality.
That said, my girlfriend had never watched a Star Wars movie before and we spent two days watching the OT.
All three lack the polish of contemporary films, but ANH is a stronger effort than TFA.
Originally posted by The_TempestSurprisingly well said. 👆First, let me say I've thoroughly enjoyed the mental gymnastics some of you have employed in vain attempts to justify this movie's unoriginality.
That said, my girlfriend had never watched a Star Wars movie before and we spent two days watching the OT.
All three lack the polish of contemporary films, but ANH is a stronger effort than TFA.
Originally posted by The_TempestDavid Boreanaz is such a ****ing neanderthal, ffs.First, let me say I've thoroughly enjoyed the mental gymnastics some of you have employed in vain attempts to justify this movie's unoriginality.
That said, my girlfriend had never watched a Star Wars movie before and we spent two days watching the OT.
All three lack the polish of contemporary films, but ANH is a stronger effort than TFA.