Star Wars TFA vs ANH

Originally posted by ares834
TFA has an entirely different plot as well. SKB is merely a subplot of the film.

SKB, Hidden plans in the droid, Chosen One finds droid and embraces a greater destiny, Main Villain is a former Jedi who betrayed and destroyed the Order. Resistance/FO set up in the Galaxy imitating the Rebellion/Empire set up of ANH.

I really don't see why you guys are either:

A) Trying to deny TFA has heavily "borrowed" it's plot from ANH or

B) Trying to make out TPM did the same thing.

Most of the plot elements are almost entirely superficial. Now yes, the setting is very similar but the plot itself is as different from ANH as TPM was.

Care to fill us in on what this totally original plot exactly is?

Well, if you've seen the film you no doubt know, but its the search for Luke.

Originally posted by queeq
ROTS is a deeply flawed movie. On many levels, not just acting and dialogue. It fails on structure, motivation, reasons why things happen, reaction to dramatic moments (or better yet: the lack of reaction)... the list goes on. A lot here is obsolete and just like AOCT it fails horribly on the crucial story element of the film. In this case: the fall of Anakin to the Dark Side.

This whole movie makes Anakin look like a dumb idiot that has only one emotion: anger. And is far from 'a good friend."

Anakin was a dumb idiot. This is how bad he was when someone close to him was in danger. He became a total nutcase. Palpatine seducing the fool was executed perfectly to me. Granted it's Ian's acting along with Ewan which was exceptional the ot's acting was even worse than the bad moments in rots imo.

Originally posted by ares834
Well, if you've seen the film you no doubt know, but its the search for Luke.

Totally haven't heard that story before. 🙄

This supposed totally original plot amounts to a few name drops and a wordless panning shot before the credits lol.

Not to mention while the film is "about" finding Luke, neither Rey nor Finn actually seem to care about finding him. Ren is the only new blood who seems to care about finding him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Right, which results in a droid entrusted with special information getting stranded on a desert planet, before with the help of a soon-to-be Chosen One reaches the Rebel HQ and helps them blow up the Death Star Starkiller Base before it can destroy them on Yavin 4 a random forest planet.

Totally haven't heard that story before. 🙄

This supposed totally original plot amounts to a few name drops and a wordless panning shot before the credits lol.

Right, which results in a droid entrusted with special information Queen getting stranded on a desert planet, before with the help of a soon-to-be Chosen One reaches the Rebel HQ “good” guys and helps them blow up the Death Star Starkiller Base droid control ship before it can destroy them on Yavin 4 a random forest planet Naboo.

🙄

Anyway, this is why I said the similarities are superficial. SKB is merely a subplot of the third act and Rey barely helps destroy it (all she does is open some doors so Chewie and Han can lay the bombs). The core part of the third act is the heroes coming to “rescue” Rey and confronting Kylo Ren.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't agree it fails on that many levels and to me a very important factor is the rewatch ability factor.

Anakin was a dumb idiot. This is how bad he was when someone close to him was in danger. He became a total nutcase. Palpatine seducing the fool was executed perfectly to me. Granted it's Ian's acting along with Ewan which was exceptional the ot's acting was even worse than the bad moments in rots imo.

Yup, I agree that McDiarmid and McGregor saved this movie. They did an excellent job with lousy material. In fact, McDiarmid got the only role in the PT that had a character: someone who revels in being evil and wants tot make over the universe. There's not a character in the PT that comes close to anything as close to character as Palpy.

And Palpy's seducing was fine. Anakin was just completely dumb: he doesn't get a hint, he can't see through a guy, he has to be literally TOLD that Palpy is a Sith.

But the whole build up and seduction is ridiculous in every way. Anakin decides to do nothing when Palpy tells him he's the Sith Lord 'they were looking for", for years. He walks away, then he warns Mace that Palpy is the Sith, upon which they sound the alarm, muster a police force and Jedi...oh... no.... they don't. No, they calmly and slowly stroll to the spaceship (like neither of them seem to care) and Anakin says they can NOT defeat Palpy without him (he should have killed him then on the spot!).
So Anni stays behind, but he decides to ignore Mace's commands an go after them, he then strikes down Mace instead of the growling guy with the monster mask on the floor. His response is: "What have I done?". Then he suddenly submits himself to Palpy's teachings who then informs him he doesn't know how to save people from death. And next Ani goes off to kill kids... From someone that wants to save a possibly dying woman (someone he realises he is conned into) he instantly transforms into a mass murderer.... This-does-not-make-any-sense!!!

Now, honestly... what movie that treats THE crucial moment of a trilogy like that goes into history as a 'great film'?

@Ares, two plot points from TPM hardly make it the same as ANH brah.

On the other hand your attempts to highlight original plot points in TFA continue to be unsuccessful. The "core" part of the third act is the same as the core part of ANH second act e.g. the heroes come to rescue Leia and confront Darth Vader, resulting in the sacrifice of the mentor figure.

Except in TFA the damsel in distress rescues herself cause we're all progressive and feminist now.

Originally posted by queeq
Yup, I agree that McDiarmid and McGregor saved this movie. They did an excellent job with lousy material. In fact, McDiarmid got the only role in the PT that had a character: someone who revels in being evil and wants tot make over the universe. There's not a character in the PT that comes close to anything as close to character as Palpy.

And Palpy's seducing was fine. Anakin was just completely dumb: he doesn't get a hint, he can't see through a guy, he has to be literally TOLD that Palpy is a Sith.

But the whole build up and seduction is ridiculous in every way. Anakin decides to do nothing when Palpy tells him he's the Sith Lord 'they were looking for", for years. He walks away, then he warns Mace that Palpy is the Sith, upon which they sound the alarm, muster a police force and Jedi...oh... no.... they don't. No, they calmly and slowly stroll to the spaceship (like neither of them seem to care) and Anakin says they can NOT defeat Palpy without him (he should have killed him then on the spot!).
So Anni stays behind, but he decides to ignore Mace's commands an go after them, he then strikes down Mace instead of the growling guy with the monster mask on the floor. His response is: "What have I done?". Then he suddenly submits himself to Palpy's teachings who then informs him he doesn't know how to save people from death. And next Ani goes off to kill kids... From someone that wants to save a possibly dying woman (someone he realises he is conned into) he instantly transforms into a mass murderer.... This-does-not-make-any-sense!!!

Now, honestly... what movie that treats THE crucial moment of a trilogy like that goes into history as a 'great film'?

To be fair, the darkside seems to radically change a person. Sidious fully expected Luke to just up and become his apprentice after killing his daddeh. Once ya fall you fall hard.

Which is not to say RotS couldn't have handled it better. Killing some Jedi? Sure. Just chopping kids to bits? A bit of a comical extreme yes lol.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
@Ares, two plot points from TPM hardly make it the same as ANH brah.

On the other hand your attempts to highlight original plot points in TFA continue to be unsuccessful. The "core" part of the third act is the same as the core part of ANH second act e.g. the heroes come to rescue Leia and confront Darth Vader, resulting in the sacrifice of the mentor figure.

Accept in TFA the damsel in distress rescues herself cause we're all progressive and feminist now.

Yes. Which is my point…

ESB has the hero coming to save someone and confronting the villain in a duel. RotS has the hero coming to save someone and confronting the villain in a duel. Both of these are clearly ripping off ANH as well.

Heck, you point out a massive difference between the two stories but there is an even bigger one that you missed, and that’s the hero defeating the villain.

Now don’t get me wrong there are some very large similarities between the two films but that’s mainly the setting and the backstory. For example, Han talking about the destruction of the Jedi is almost identical to Kenobi talking about it in ANH.

The major difference is relatable characters, characters we can like and events where it's clear what's going on. The OT and TFA have both of those. To get any grasp of what's going on in the PT you need to read a ton of books, comics and animation series. And even then there are no relatable characters on screen.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
To be fair, the darkside seems to radically change a person. Sidious fully expected Luke to just up and become his apprentice after killing his daddeh. Once ya fall you fall [b]hard.

Which is not to say RotS couldn't have handled it better. Killing some Jedi? Sure. Just chopping kids to bits? A bit of a comical extreme yes lol. [/B]

Well, the dark side changed a silly kid into a psychopath murderer. Because that's what we see Anakin do a lot. Why did we have to cheer for this guy in the same way we cheered for Luke again?

Originally posted by ares834
Yes. Which is my point…

ESB has the hero coming to save someone and confronting the villain in a duel. RotS has the hero coming to save someone and confronting the villain in a duel. Both of these are clearly ripping off ANH as well.

Heck, you point out a massive difference between the two stories but there is an even bigger one that you missed, and that’s the hero defeating the villain.

Now don’t get me wrong there are some very large similarities between the two films but that’s mainly the setting and the backstory. For example, Han talking about the destruction of the Jedi is almost identical to Kenobi talking about it in ANH.

Problem with TFA though is 1. its a little too on the nose - like the Call to Adventure didn't have to be another droid carrying vital information/ galactic war between Rebels and an Empire, and the Belly of the Whale didn't have to be the Death Star 3.0 - and 2. just wasn't executed as well, the Death Star for example was integral to the ANH, Starkiller Base was shoe-horned in to TFA and it's destruction was anti-climatic for something we have next to zero emotional investment in.

That's my real issue with the film.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Not to mention while the film is "about" finding Luke, neither Rey nor Finn actually seem to care about finding him. Ren is the only new blood who seems to care about finding him.

Rey and Finn continually risk their lives to protect the map to Luke. They clearly care about getting that shit to the Resistance.

Originally posted by queeq
The major difference is relatable characters, characters we can like and events where it's clear what's going on. The OT and TFA have both of those. To get any grasp of what's going on in the PT you need to read a ton of books, comics and animation series. And even then there are no relatable characters on screen.

👆

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well yes in the end every Star Wars film is a rehash of the Hero's Journey, and when considering it's lack of originality I definitely take that into account.

Problem with TFA though is 1. its a little too on the nose - like the Call to Adventure didn't have to be another droid carrying vital information/ galactic war between Rebels and an Empire, and the Belly of the Whale didn't have to be the Death Star 3.0 - and 2. just wasn't executed as well, the Death Star for example was integral to the ANH, Starkiller Base was shoe-horned in to TFA and it's destruction was anti-climatic for something we have next to zero emotional investment in.

That's my real issue with the film.

Once you consider it a soft reboot, I think you can live with it.

As long as they push through this time. Unlike Abrams did with the second ST film. Which was storywise quite horrible, but I gotta say it's entertaining to watch. The ONLY redeeming factor for that movie,. But I am not a Trekkie. I sure hope they don't pull this on SW VIII.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well yes in the end every Star Wars film is a rehash of the Hero's Journey, and when considering it's lack of originality I definitely take that into account.

Problem with TFA though is 1. its a little too on the nose - like the Call to Adventure didn't have to be another droid carrying vital information/ galactic war between Rebels and an Empire, and the Belly of the Whale didn't have to be the Death Star 3.0 - and 2. just wasn't executed as well, the Death Star for example was integral to the ANH, Starkiller Base was shoe-horned in to TFA and it's destruction was anti-climatic for something we have next to zero emotional investment in.

That's my real issue with the film.

👍

Many of these similarities that some TFA apologists are dismissing as "superficial" are critical to the story. When did "the plot" become a superficial element? 😂

It's ok to acknowledge and discuss flaws in something you like. Why people have to convince themselves that what they like is perfect is beyond me.

Indeed. TFA is not flawless, I'd rank it no3 or no4 in my list of SW movies. But it's entertaining, has some great, fresh new characters that can go a long way and I had fun. That's quite a good score for a movie that basically all fantasy and funny nonsense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Rey and Finn continually risk their lives to protect the map to Luke. They clearly care about getting that shit to the Resistance.

And do they do anything more than that to find Luke? Try and get the rest of the map? Nah. Finn just wants to keep his promise to Poe and Rey only seems to protect BB-8/Finn cause she is nice. Finding Luke himself is unimportant to them because Finn wants to run and Rey didn't think he was real.

And don't forget they got off Jakku to save their very lives...