Star Wars TFA vs ANH

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well yes in the end every Star Wars film is a rehash of the Hero's Journey, and when considering it's lack of originality I definitely take that into account.

Problem with TFA though is 1. its a little too on the nose - like the Call to Adventure didn't have to be another droid carrying vital information/ galactic war between Rebels and an Empire, and the Belly of the Whale didn't have to be the Death Star 3.0 - and 2. just wasn't executed as well, the Death Star for example was integral to the ANH, Starkiller Base was shoe-horned in to TFA and it's destruction was anti-climatic for something we have next to zero emotional investment in.

That's my real issue with the film.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
And do they do anything more than that to find Luke? Try and get the rest of the map? Nah. Finn just wants to keep his promise to Poe and Rey only seems to protect BB-8/Finn cause she is nice. Finding Luke himself is unimportant to them because Finn wants to run and Rey didn't think he was real.

Well, I think Rey does actually.....

They had more important things to do after they get to the cantina. They don't try to get the rest of the map because Rey's captured, Finn's trying to rescue her, oh, and Starkiller Base just wiped out a solar system. Also Rey knows Lukes real by then.

Hero's Journey is a repetitive "theme" in th Star Wars movies, which is fine IMO as long as every time it's used differently. Because the variety of ways to use the Hero's Journey are almost endless.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well, I think Rey does actually.....

They had more important things to do after they get to the cantina. They don't try to get the rest of the map because Rey's captured, Finn's trying to rescue her, oh, and Starkiller Base just wiped out a solar system. Also Rey knows Lukes real by then.

Not up until that point, what with him being a legend and all.

Exactly. Once they got BB-8 out of the way, the plot of finding Luke is promptly dropped so that a climax can occur. The heroes don't really care about finding Luke(except Poe and Han obviously) but helping BB-8, a character not really involved in the ending.

Compare it to ANH, where the information in R2 is crucial to the climax of the film and the destruction of this big looming threat that has been present basically the whole movie.

This film could have been truly Epic if it just stuck to its own Original plot which was the "Search for Luke" IMO. Instead of cramming as much of ANH in there as possible.

Originally posted by queeq
Yup, I agree that McDiarmid and McGregor saved this movie. They did an excellent job with lousy material. In fact, McDiarmid got the only role in the PT that had a character: someone who revels in being evil and wants tot make over the universe. There's not a character in the PT that comes close to anything as close to character as Palpy.

And Palpy's seducing was fine. Anakin was just completely dumb: he doesn't get a hint, he can't see through a guy, he has to be literally TOLD that Palpy is a Sith.

But the whole build up and seduction is ridiculous in every way. Anakin decides to do nothing when Palpy tells him he's the Sith Lord 'they were looking for", for years. He walks away, then he warns Mace that Palpy is the Sith, upon which they sound the alarm, muster a police force and Jedi...oh... no.... they don't. No, they calmly and slowly stroll to the spaceship (like neither of them seem to care) and Anakin says they can NOT defeat Palpy without him (he should have killed him then on the spot!).
So Anni stays behind, but he decides to ignore Mace's commands an go after them, he then strikes down Mace instead of the growling guy with the monster mask on the floor. His response is: "What have I done?". Then he suddenly submits himself to Palpy's teachings who then informs him he doesn't know how to save people from death. And next Ani goes off to kill kids... From someone that wants to save a possibly dying woman (someone he realises he is conned into) he instantly transforms into a mass murderer.... This-does-not-make-any-sense!!!

Now, honestly... what movie that treats THE crucial moment of a trilogy like that goes into history as a 'great film'?

Anakin did the right thing as he altered Windu but his fear brought him back to the conflict. He made a knee jerk reaction when Mace was going to kill a beaten opponent which violated the spirit of the Jedi. We could see why he did so but you know damn well anyone can see the error of his ways because our emotions aren't linked into his decisions.

He then realized what he did was catastrophic and agreed with Palpatine's next course of action as he believed the Jedi in his clouded thoughts were the enemies. He was a broken man. Stupid and played by Palpatine based off his emotions. To me it's a great film.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I really don't see why you guys are either:

A) Trying to deny TFA has heavily "borrowed" it's plot from ANH or

B) Trying to make out TPM did the same thing.

I dig both movies. My two favorites of the franchise

Originally posted by Quincy
I dig both movies. My two favorites of the franchise

Even above Empire? Jedi I can see cause that is a flawed movie but most still put both below Empire.

Originally posted by Quincy
I dig both movies. My two favorites of the franchise

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
They're both good. As long as you don't have to watch the Lucas "Enhanced" editions, A New Hope is better.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
TPM did the same thing. http://www.wired.com/2015/10/my-first-viewing-of-star-wars-i/

Not really sure what that article points out.

Previously by me:

Originally posted by Darth Thor
TPM was about the occupation of a planet, the "Resurgence" of a thousand year old enemy, the "Discovery" of a boy with Massive potential, a corrupt political system, and turning to the comic relief character to form an alliance with his people to save the original planet under threat.

It was Very Very different to film to ANH and Very Original.

Having "Parallels" and Repeating certain "Themes" is not the same thing as copying the basic Plot and Setting from another film.

One thing in connection to TFA is that at least for me the enjoyment and excitement of the movie started to die quite rapidly once it became clear to me that I was watching an ANH reboot being pushed as a continuation.

At that point I knew what was going to happen in the movie and how it was going to end. When Solo die I already new that he was going to die just like Obi wan did. It made the scene very unemotional and dead for me.

TFA played it safe and that is what keeps it from being as glorious or from becoming the classic that ANH is.

Hopefully they take more of a chance with the next movie.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Anakin was seduced and his mind was warped based off his visions of losing his wife. The guy totally lost it because he never could get over losing his mother and Sheev knew that and how to press his buttons.

Anakin did the right thing as he altered Windu but his fear brought him back to the conflict. He made a knee jerk reaction when Mace was going to kill a beaten opponent which violated the spirit of the Jedi. We could see why he did so but you know damn well anyone can see the error of his ways because our emotions aren't linked into his decisions.

He then realized what he did was catastrophic and agreed with Palpatine's next course of action as he believed the Jedi in his clouded thoughts were the enemies. He was a broken man. Stupid and played by Palpatine based off his emotions. To me it's a great film.

Then great. But do tell me, when did Anakin turn exactly? I think it must be somewhere between TPM and AOTC, because I see exactly the same behaviour in him in AOTC (murdering men, women and children - Tusken Village) as after this completely non-sensical fall (murdering men, women and children - Jedi Temple). And in both cases he is very angry and blames other people (resp. OB1 and the Jedi in general).

Sorry, dude... Anakin's arc is basically absent. If nothing changes in a character and all the action, all the exploits we see have no consequence for him, then the entire story is dead in the water.

Originally posted by Kotor3
One thing in connection to TFA is that at least for me the enjoyment and excitement of the movie started to die quite rapidly once it became clear to me that I was watching an ANH reboot being pushed as a continuation.

At that point I knew what was going to happen in the movie and how it was going to end. When Solo die I already new that he was going to die just like Obi wan did. It made the scene very unemotional and dead for me.

TFA played it safe and that is what keeps it from being as glorious or from becoming the classic that ANH is.

Hopefully they take more of a chance with the next movie.

Pretty much this. The first half of the movie Rocked, I thought, and I thought it was more of a homage to ANH than a copy at that point.

The second half with the introduction of Starkillerbase and Kylo's background being the same as Vader's is where they lost my interest.

Plus all that ANH stuff was kind of crammed in the second half, so it was hard to care about the destruction of 5 planets, the imminent destruction of the Resistance planet or the defeat of Stakiller Base, unlike in ANH where those same plot points were just pure excitement.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Even above Empire? Jedi I can see cause that is a flawed movie but most still put both below Empire.

Empire is probably cooler, yeah. It's got Boba Fett, that's rad. And there is more Vader. But things move along pretty hectically and there's very little resolution in it as a singular film.

^ That's why I don't really like ranking the first 6 Star Wars films as individual movies.Because It's one Saga divided into episodes. and each episode gives us another piece to the puzzle.

Because like you pointed out, most people say Empire but it's a middle chapter so doesn't really stand on its own as a film.

Originally posted by queeq
Then great. But do tell me, when did Anakin turn exactly? I think it must be somewhere between TPM and AOTC, because I see exactly the same behaviour in him in AOTC (murdering men, women and children - Tusken Village) as after this completely non-sensical fall (murdering men, women and children - Jedi Temple). And in both cases he is very angry and blames other people (resp. OB1 and the Jedi in general).

Sorry, dude... Anakin's arc is basically absent. If nothing changes in a character and all the action, all the exploits we see have no consequence for him, then the entire story is dead in the water.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Pretty much this. The first half of the movie Rocked, I thought, and I thought it was more of a homage to ANH than a copy at that point.

The second half with the introduction of Starkillerbase and Kylo's background being the same as Vader's is where they lost my interest.

Plus all that ANH stuff was kind of crammed in the second half, so it was hard to care about the destruction of 5 planets, the imminent destruction of the Resistance planet or the defeat of Stakiller Base, unlike in ANH where those same plot points were just pure excitement.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He always blames others and we see a lot of the dark side in him when Palpatine ordered him to kill Dooku. What changed him is that dramatic moment and the fear of loss of his beloved Padme. Once he reacted in that way he knew he had to go down that road. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

But he already reacted like that. There's no change between the Tuskens and the Jedi Temple murders. The only difference is that his mom, really died and of Padme he only had a vision. And as it turns out: his "fall" caused her death. He didn't even know how to interpret his own visions.

Nope, I see no change.

Originally posted by queeq
But he already reacted like that. There's no change between the Tuskens and the Jedi Temple murders. The only difference is that his mom, really died and of Padme he only had a vision. And as it turns out: his "fall" caused her death. He didn't even know how to interpret his own visions.

Nope, I see no change.

Well, it was there.