Originally posted by darthgoober
I was gonna get involved, then I decided to not, but since my old buddy bran is calling for action and I did already post I'll contribute just a bit...In a very large number of them yes.
No his primary power is to channel the Power Cosmic, an energy blast is one possible way for him to manifest that power. Against another flyer with energy blast of I could absolutely see not counting energy blasts as versatility, but against a ground based brick like Hulk or Thing, flying around blasting is absolutely an instance of him using his superior versatility in combat.
Who's talking about STARTING the fight speedblitzing, how about him just speedblitzing at some point in the fight, especially to end it. See you say that Supes has done it enough to prove that he will if he needs to in a forum fight but you say that Surfer wouldn't use the necessary tactics to win in a forum fight because they're out of character.
Well give me a number, I'm genuinely interested in the prospect. How many speedblitzes can you produce for every versatility feat I post for Surfer from a fight?
Flying around is just how he moves.... if you're counting him moving around the battlefield, dodging, and bullrushing opponents then let me ask you this... do you count the same kind of thing as Surfer using "speed in combat"?
Good to see you posting bro and amazing post at that.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh look who is back?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Totally false. You want me to list his fights issue by issue?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? That's his power source. It's like saying Flash main power is channeling speed force.That makes no sense at all.
Also if you want to get technical about it, energy blasts aren't Surfer's "main power" even by your definition of it, flying is. Hell it's right there in his name... he's the Silver SURFER not the Silver BLASTER.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it's absolutely not.Case closed.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. Quite nice of you to paraphrase it.👆
Awesome... well lets put that theory to the test.
Originally posted by abhilegend
More than you can.
Originally posted by abhilegend
This is why I call upon your BS. Surfer using his blasts is him using his versatility but Superman using his speed isn't using his speed unless you count Surfer using the same.If you want to argue speed vs versatility I'm happy to do so.
If you are looking for Surfer vs Superman in speed, I'm happy to do so.
Chose one. Or are you just going to ask everyone to ignore my scans again and then run away?
Of course I'll ask people to ignore what you say, that's kinda the point of a debate(especially a BZ BTW). "Ignore his argument because my argument is the correct one". A debate isn't 2 people coming together to agree on something, it's an adversarial contest to convince people that the other guy is wrong.
Originally posted by abhilegend
😂As always your ego is only slightly smaller than Bran's.
Most people here currently don't even know who you are.
MOST people sure... die hard Supes fans know me though. Hell you were throwing my name around years after I stopped posting on the forum even though you joined after I left...
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Thing is, though....Superman's speed is a forum rule. So no need to scan dump...
Originally posted by darthgoober
As I said, not reall "back", just visiting so to speak
Oh, look who is gracious enough to award us with his presence.
You running for US Presidency too as you don't have the time for us mere mortals?
Sure go ahead if you feel the need
Why don't you show us the "very large number of them" showings where he uses his versatility first.
Flash's main power IS channeling the speedforce. He mostly uses it for super speed, but he also uses it to speed steal, lend speed, etc. Super speed SEEMED like his primary power for years, but then they made it clear that he was limiting himself and his power was actually manipulating/channeling the speedforce.
Are you really this dense? Speed force is his power source, superspeed is his primary power. He can manipulate his own supply of speed force energy to various effects but that doesn't means its his main power.
Just like solar energy absorption isn't superman's main power.
Also if you want to get technical about it, energy blasts aren't Surfer's "main power" even by your definition of it, flying is. Hell it's right there in his name... he's the Silver SURFER not the Silver BLASTER.
😂
What kind of reasoning is that? Are we going to call Green Lantern's main power as well, creating light like a lantern?
How about Hulk being large? This is just getting silly.
Now you're just being silly, of course it is. By the same token if Supes was fighting someone like Hercules or Hulk and used his flying and HV to bring the guy down it could be said that he used his versatility to win.
I'm being silly? Yes, because they are not his primary powers. Strength is.
Awesome... well lets put that theory to the test.
Sure, go ahead with your scans.
Cool, how many more? After all Pre DCnU Supes had WAY more fights/appearances so you should be able to produce.. 2, 3, 4, maybe even 5... more speedblitzes for every versatility showing from Surfer. How many do you think?
Now, why are we using appearances as a crutch?
Not having confidence issues, are we?
I'm not talking about Supes "using his speed", I'm talking about him SPEEDBLITZING.
Now you are changing the topic again. If Superman uses his speed in a fight, he is using his speed.
Him speedblitzing and landing like 10 punches in a row will kill most of his foes.
He is not a killer. And why are we limiting using speed to Flash like "flurry of punches" speedblitz.
You say he's done it enough to be in character but Surfer hasn't used his versatility enough to be in character.
Yes, he uses his speed far more often than surfer uses say his energy draining or your favorite wekness exploitation (which he never uses btw).
Doesn't stops you though. I wonder why?
Also, I'm not talking about using Surfer's standard energy blast in our comparison, I'm more than willing to stipulate that the standard blast are equal in ratio to general speed/flying tactics from Supes. After all, I'm wanting to compare speed blitzes vs exotic uses of the power cosmic.
Why? And no they are not, Superman uses his speed in almost every fight.
Which you can imagine are far more than Surfer's uses of energy blasts.
Speed vs Versatility. That's the stipulation.
Of course I'll ask people to ignore what you say, that's kinda the point of a debate(especially a BZ BTW). "Ignore his argument because my argument is the correct one".
😂
Is that how you thought you said last time? You didn't say "my argument is better". You said "Ignore his argument as he manipulates scans and that's so wrong.".
But hey, you have cheerleaders. That totally supports your stance.
A debate isn't 2 people coming together to agree on something, it's an adversarial contest to convince people that the other guy is wrong.
If only you knew how to debate and not create a bunch of rules in favor from the start.
"I will do it only if it works as I say."
Silly sally, that's not how a debate works.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Hey I'm offended by that... my ego is A LOT bigger than Bran's 😂 . My the ego is up there with the likes of Dr. Doom or Zod, the biggest difference is that I realize referring to oneself in the 3rd person sounds silly and I'm smarter than they are 😄
Nah, Bran's ego is bigger than yours.
He is a better Surfer fanboy than you too.
MOST people sure... die hard Supes fans know me though. Hell you were throwing my name around years after I stopped posting on the forum even though you joined after I left...
I only knew because I used to read the old threads and laugh at your silly posts.
You silly sally, you are not that important. In fact you are not important at all in grand scheme of things.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh I'm not questioning that in the slightest. But Supes's speed is just one example of a more encompassing rule. I'm not out to prove that Supes WON'T use a speedblitz according to forum rules, I'm out to prove that Surfer WILL use his versatility according to the same forum rule by comparing the use ratio's of the known inclusion to that of the possible inclusion.
You have argued years about Superman and Surfer having similar level of speed and have been offended by mere mention of Superman being able to speedblitz surfer.
While weakness exploitation (which surfer never uses) is your go tactic.
I want to compare the times Surfer has used kryptonite/red sun rays on someone to the time superman has speedblitzed. Want to compare?
Originally posted by abhilegendI think you've proven well enough that my ego has given me the right to cheerlead. But not a boy cheerleader, no. I'm a man cheerleader
Where are your pom-poms bran?
Quan Quote of the post:
Originally posted by quanchi112
You say Pom poms all the time. You really need to be a little more creative as you don't seem to get into any heads other than your own.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
I think you've proven well enough that my ego has given me the right to cheerlead. But not a boy cheerleader, no. I'm a man cheerleaderQuan Quote of the post:
Don't worry, I don't blame you for it.
But seriously. where are your pom-poms?
Originally posted by abhilegendYou will clearly see me in everyone of your hundred arguments a day cheerleading against you. It has nothing to do with you constantly bringing my name up for no reason in this singular thread where I agreed Darth gets in your head. A guy you immediately went "personal" with for no real reason.
At this point, you'll cheerlead anyone against me.Don't worry, I don't blame you for it.
But seriously. where are your pom-poms?
Also I just told you, I'm a man cheerleader. My pom poms are on my person dog. I'm not some forgetful boy cheerleader, I brought them.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh, look who is gracious enough to award us with his presence.You running for US Presidency too as you don't have the time for us mere mortals?
If I was more than mortal why would I run for President? I mean pronounce myself Godking, Pharaoh, or something like that sure... Begging the populace to put myself in charge for 4 years wouldn't even make sense 😛
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why don't you show us the "very large number of them" showings where he uses his versatility first.
Hey you're the one who asked if I wanted you to post them, why are you trying to shift the onus to me?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Are you really this dense? Speed force is his power source, superspeed is his primary power. He can manipulate his own supply of speed force energy to various effects but that doesn't means its his main power.Just like solar energy absorption isn't superman's main power.
No his primary power is manipulating the speedforce, super speed is just the most frequent use of that power. By the same token, Dr. Strange's and Dr. Fate's primary power isn't something like shooting energy blasts, it's casting spells/using magic.
Also, absorbing sunlight... not a super power. Regular human's absorb solar energy all the time, it's how we get sun tans. Basically everything but mirrored surfaces absorbs solar energy. I think what you meant to say was "metabolizing solar energy". And if I was taking that route I would have said Surfer's power was absorbing cosmic energy. But I didn't say that, I said his primary power channeling the Power Cosmic, because lot's of other characters absorb cosmic energy as well but not all those characters manipulate the Power Cosmic.
Originally posted by abhilegend
😂
What kind of reasoning is that? Are we going to call Green Lantern's main power as well, creating light like a lantern?How about Hulk being large? This is just getting silly.
Green Lantern doesn't have a "power" he wields an object, different thing.
Hulk does have superhuman size, but it's not really the greatest of his abilities so I personally wouldn't call it his primary power. I mean the difference in size between him and human is significant, but the difference in strength is unreal.
In regards to Surfer though, being able to travel through space is the MOST important aspect of his powers, it's the whole reason Galactus created him. Take away his energy blast and he could still be a herald for Galactus, take away his ability to traverse space and he'd be useless for Galactus.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm being silly? Yes, because they are not his primary powers. Strength is.
And versatile is a relative term comparing two or more people/things. You're not versatile based on what you CAN do, you're versatile based on what others CAN'T do. The really silly thing is that we've spent this much time on a tangent. I mean I already said that blasting was Surfer's main manifestation and my comment about it qualifying as versatility was limited to bricks. We're talking about an extreme minority of showings here lol.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure, go ahead with your scans.
Just as soon as you give me your number. No offense but you have a horrible reputation for doing things like "moving the goal posts"
Originally posted by abhilegend
Now, why are we using appearances as a crutch?Not having confidence issues, are we?
You're the one who established the number of appearances/fights being relevant when you mentioned Surfer using his versatility in less than 5 percent. If a percentage is important for Surfer than it's important for Supes.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Now you are changing the topic again. If Superman uses shis speed in a fight, he is using his speed.Him speedblitzing and landing like 10 punches in a row will kill most of his foes.
He is not a killer. And why are we limiting using speed to Flash like "flurry of punches" speedblitz.
No YOU'RE changing the topic. Celey asked specifically about SPEEDBLITZING, and you said you could produce more scans of it than celey could produce for Surfer using versatility
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, he uses his speed far more often than surfer uses say his energy draining or your favorite wekness exploitation (which he never uses btw).Doesn't stops you though. I wonder why?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why? And no they are not, Superman uses his speed in almost every fight.Which you can imagine are far more than Surfer's uses of energy blasts.
Speed vs Versatility. That's the stipulation.
And no that's not the stipulation, this discussion has been about speedblitzing before I even threw in my two cents. If you've decided that you don't want to back up what you said before, no worries. I'm gracious enough to let you back out without giving you flak about it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
😂Is that how you thought you said last time? You didn't say "my argument is better". You said "Ignore his argument as he manipulates scans and that's so wrong.".
But hey, you have cheerleaders. That totally supports your stance.
No my exact words were...
"Ok now I know what everyone thinking "Why on Earth would darth push for a fight against the biggest hero in comics where his own guy is handicapped against the best ways to win right at the outset"... right? Well there are two reasons... 1=I'm just that damn good... and 2= so is Surfer. There are a LOT of characters who can match(and even exceed) him in one, two, or possibly even 3 categories... but there are virtually none in the herald tier who can match him across the board. To borrow a metaphor from way back when... Hulk is a canion a mile deep and 100 feet wide, Supes is a canion a mile deep and 500 hundred feet wide, but Surfer is a canion a mile deep and and a mile wide... and that's just too much for practically anyone else in his weight class unless he tries to fight THEIR way. Another good metaphor for a fight between the two would be that it's like a game of rock/paper/scissors... only Supes is only able to throw rock while Surfer can throw all 3. Yes Supes has can definately win IF Surfer is stupid enough to throw scissors, but in a forum fight he has absolutely no reason(and certainly no obligation) to do so. Surfer beats Supes in a forum fight for basically the same reason that Supes beats Hulk in a forum fight.
I suspect that most of you are expecting me to come in and scan bomb the Hell out of the place like I would have in the old days but you know what... I'm not gonna. That's not to say that I plan on making a bunch of baseless claims unsupported by evidence, but we're talking about 2 extremely well known characters in fight that's been argued ad nausim so making you judges click on hundreds of links that you'e seen at least a dozen times each will be pointless and end with all of you getting so tired of clicking that something important is likely to get glossed over and missed. It's the very thing that killed real debating on this forum long ago. Plus we've got a pretty short time limit on this thing and if we gotta go hunting for a truckload of scans it's going to take away a lot from the actual debating. No instead of a scan blitz that you don't need to see the thing I'll primariy be relying on is quite simply... your common sense and logic. Yes simply put, the seat of the pants wisdom of intelligent, well reasoned debaters who are already familiar with the forum rules and the capabilities of the characters being discussed. I'll go ahead and use scans to prove that Surfer has more than enough power to hurt Supes, then I'll demonstrate just how many more offensive options Surfer has than Supes, and then I'll prove that he can defend far better against Supes's best avenues for victory than vice versa, but in the end I'll be relying on you guy's ability to finish the equation 1+1+1=X.
Now abhi... he's going to try to pull off a little magic act. He's gonna try a little misdirection... he's gonna throw in some double standards... add a dash of lowballing... and hope to amaze you with 1,000+ plus scans that come strait from the largest respect thread on the internet(fitting for the most popular character in the history of fiction) while ommiting all context... but in the end when you wipe the sleep out of your eyes and thank God that he's finally finished, nothing he will have said will be able to change the fact that all Supes can throw is rock, and the only reason for Surfer to throw scissors is because abhi desperately wants him too."
2nd paragraph is me saying "listen to my argument", 3rd paragraph is me saying "ignore his argument"