People have used that feat here to add to Loki's durability, so if that counts, a black hole survival feat counts even more.
In any case its quiet clear his power increased exponentially after he went into space. Hell prior to that his father said the sun strengthened his muscles, so he flew into space and got stronger.
This is how superman works, this isn't some new concept.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
People have used that feat here to add to Loki's durability, so if that counts, a black hole survival feat counts even more.
Well, if ppl has said it. I'm not one of those ppl. At leat I don't recall ever saying that. I'm not even sure which instance this "feat" is from. Is it the Bifrost fall?
Again, like I said, I'd agree with you in not counting it as a durability "feat". If it is what you say it is.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Gravity doesn't work like an air vortex that sucks you in vacuum style. At least not the way I was taught back in physics class (although that was a long time ago). It pulls on you relative to your mass and against your current acceleration. Given enough acceleration, we can resist gravity momentarily (we do that everytime we jump). Had she been already accelerated (by both her fall and the explosion) it would be reasonable to think that she would be temporarily moving away from the gravitational pull before it took full effect albeit temporarily as it does seem the gravitational field expanded quickly but not instantaneously.Or you could be right, and it could be all PIS to further the plot. /shrug to be honest, I would actually be inclined to agree with you.
I'm just saying that this is not a case of "no other possible explanation other than PIS". As there are explanations out there, not very good ones, but it's there.
Yes, never said it wasn't pulling at his body. What I said was that forces he was experiencing seemed to be strong enough to make him struggle flight-wise.
You'll have to excuse the film makers if they didn't get it exactly correct, as destroying the planet would have stopped the story.
But in the film, it was a singularity/black hole, you had Dr. Emil Hamilton confirm it as much.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
People have used that feat here to add to Loki's durability, so if that counts, a black hole survival feat counts even more.In any case its quiet clear his power increased exponentially after he went into space. Hell prior to that his father said the sun strengthened his muscles, so he flew into space and got stronger.
This is how superman works, this isn't some new concept.
But the cold hard facts also remain true about Superman, he doesn't get more durable just from more exposure. There's a threshold that must be adhered to. There is a limit to how hard your muscles can get... they don't somehow turn into adamantium just because he's been on the earth 200 years and gotten more exposure. Doesn't work that way. In fact, we see an older superman with years and years of exposure to the sun KO'd. His durability didn't increase at all imo, and if it did, it wasn't by very much at all. He was simply KO'd by the Oil Rig.. plan and simple. There are no two ways about it. I have no issue with superman becoming more formidable after Jor-El's speech... Shit, I might even say he got a little stronger from his dash to the sun (Not much because he was only there a few seconds) I might even say he got a little bit stronger, but what I won't agree with is that he got more durable. He doesn't just continue to get more durable and durable infinitely just from exposure to the sun. It doesn't work that way in comics, nor here.
Nor do I accept the notion that testing himself meant strength. I've unquestionably shown he had already been testing himself since a little boy. The Oil Rig was a test. Jor-El in no way was talking about testing his strength. He had already been doing that, and would continue to do so. Simple.
Solar radiation provides all his powers, so if you agree leaving Earth's atmosphere made him stronger, it would by the same mechanics increase his protective aura.
Which is in line with the comics, when Superman is denied YSR, his ability to resist injury goes down along with his strength, flight, heat-vision etc. We saw similar when he was on Zod's ship.
TI's solar radiation theory is fairly sound, imo.
Originally posted by Robtard
Getting tossed isn't getting hurt. We saw no injurious from bullets.Hulk was Ko'd by Tony
You honestly feel that Lois falling while cars were being sucked up makes sense? That the pull affected Clark, but not here because why? Come on
You're just being silly, he clearly increased in power all around. Should we count Hulk being floored and out for a few seconds by Abomination's chain-swing as being Hulk's standard durability? I wouldn't as he's clearly improved, but using your reasoning we should
Sorry, but you're reasoning is flawed. Kurse who is comparable to Hulk/Thor didn't survive an extremely tiny singularity, but he'll just survive the massive one in MoS? Come on, you're better than this.
That is not true, and again disingenuous. he wasn't just moved he was hurt and stunned by the attack. He sat there on one knew struggle to get up. We've seen Hulk take similar fire and not get moved NOR get stunned.
Again you're leaving out vital context and you know it as well. As if it was Tony simply punching him. There were other things going on there. But again, even if we count that time, he's still been KO'd LESS than Kal or other Kryptonians. So even if we ant to count that, it's the quantity that matters here. Hulk's been KO'd less. There are no two ways about it.
Because I simply witnessed what I witnessed. You keep citing Lois, but she wasn't the only one not pulled in. There were other just regular people running around near the pulse... and they weren't sucked in. So the Lois excuse doesn't fly. It was simply a piss poor black hole when it is all said and done.
Further, others seem to be claiming Superman fought off being disintegrated, when nothing of the sort happened. There was no disintegration going on there. We saw people being pulled into it WHOLE and TOTALLY INTACT. No disintegration. That seems to be part of the problem here, some people think he was fighting that force and that wasn't at all what was going on there. Jor-El didn't say.. get them near it and they'll be killed or disintegrated.. he said get them near it and they'll be trapped in the phantom zone... i.e. they'll be just fine being pulled in there and trapped... NOT killed.
Again, as I addressed with Time, his durability didn't increase one bit after the Oil Rig scene. It's nonsensical to assume it did. I might give a little stronger, possibly, but not more durable. That simply goes against logic and common sense. His muscles don't continually get harder and harder to no end with continued exposure. Doesn't work that way in comics nor here. He's been in a sun a very very long time... he didn't just suddenly get exponentially more durable from less than a month of exposure. No way.
Originally posted by Robtard
You'll have to excuse the film makers if they didn't get it exactly correct, as destroying the planet would have stopped the story.But in the film, it was a singularity/black hole, you had Dr. Emil Hamilton confirm it as much.
......
We know it's a black hole. Not contending that. Have said this repeatedly but I do not know why you seem to come back to this.
The question was never about if it was a black hole or not (although it is explicitly a nonstandard one). Again, we KNOW its a black hole. The question was how much force was being applied to him? Was it "hurting his durability" strong or was it "strugging to fly" strong?
Movie seemed to show the latter more than the prior, heck its very explicit about it, and the logic used to try and quantify its strength as being some sort of durability "feat" seemed to be from the sole virtue of it being a black hole. Never mind the fact that nothing around him (even those closer than him) was getting spaghettified or torn apart (until they get to the very center, that is). Again, how is this a durability "feat"? Everything was just falling in. Visual evidence corroborates my interpretation more than it does yours.
Originally posted by Robtard
Solar radiation provides all his powers, so if you agree leaving Earth's atmosphere made him stronger, it would by the same mechanics increase his protective aura.Which is in line with the comics, when Superman is denied YSR, his ability to resist injury goes down along with his strength, flight, heat-vision etc. We saw similar when he was on Zod's ship.
TI's solar radiation theory is fairly sound, imo.
I don't disagree, but he doesn't continually get more and more durable. It doesn't work that way in comics. Even the oldest version of Superman, has been KO'd, and he'd been exposed to the sun for 1000's of years. They showed he had all sorts of cool powers and he appeared stronger, what he wasn't was more durable. There is a threshold here that must be adhered to. As I stated, his muscles don't turn into adamantium just because he's been in the sun for 500 years. It doesn't here, nor in comics. So I disagree with any notion that he got more durable from that simple jaunt into the atmosphere for a few seconds. What also has to be remembered is, if we're using that theory, than you must also accept that his little Sun Dip eventually wore off. He was shown struggling, fighting and doing things after that. He likely used up all those reserves shortly there after. He just doesn't stay at that level. When superman dips, that boost leaves him at some point. It doesn't just stay with him. So even if we accept he got stronger, it won't last that long and only until he used said boost reserves. Who's to say when that was? No way to prove it one way or the other. Thus, there's simply no way to quantify it nor say how long it lasted. To say nothing of people complaining about the specs of RL guns or how RL blackholes work.. and them not being consistent. So they get a black hole wrong... and yet they intended Superman to sun dip there and become more powerful?? That can be taken as a fact when people are already questioning the director forgetting this detail or that. I could easily say the director just did that for dramatic effect but in no way was he intending that to be a sun dip. See how that works?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Again, as I addressed with Time, his durability didn't increase one bit after the Oil Rig scene. It's nonsensical to assume it did. I might give a little stronger, possibly, but not more durable. That simply goes against logic and common sense. His muscles don't continually get harder and harder to no end with continued exposure. Doesn't work that way in comics nor here. He's been in a sun a very very long time... he didn't just suddenly get exponentially more durable from less than a month of exposure. No way.
He had been in the sun along time, but he never left the atmosphere allowing himself to increase his exposure exponentially. Solar radiation outside our atmosphere and ozone would allow him access to all of the power of the sun.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That is not true, and again disingenuous. he wasn't just moved he was hurt and stunned by the attack. He sat there on one knew struggle to get up. We've seen Hulk take similar fire and not get moved NOR get stunned.Again you're leaving out vital context and you know it as well. As if it was Tony simply punching him. There were other things going on there. But again, even if we count that time, he's still been KO'd LESS than Kal or other Kryptonians. So even if we ant to count that, it's the quantity that matters here. Hulk's been KO'd less. There are no two ways about it.
Because I simply witnessed what I witnessed. You keep citing Lois, but she wasn't the only one not pulled in. There were other just regular people running around near the pulse... and they weren't sucked in. So the Lois excuse doesn't fly. It was simply a piss poor black hole when it is all said and done.
Further, others seem to be claiming Superman fought off being disintegrated, when nothing of the sort happened. There was no disintegration going on there. We saw people being pulled into it WHOLE and TOTALLY INTACT. No disintegration. That seems to be part of the problem here, some people think he was fighting that force and that wasn't at all what was going on there. Jor-El didn't say.. get them near it and they'll be killed or disintegrated.. he said get them near it and they'll be trapped in the phantom zone... i.e. they'll be just fine being pulled in there and trapped... NOT killed.
Again, as I addressed with Time, his durability didn't increase one bit after the Oil Rig scene. It's nonsensical to assume it did. I might give a little stronger, possibly, but not more durable. That simply goes against logic and common sense. His muscles don't continually get harder and harder to no end with continued exposure. Doesn't work that way in comics nor here. He's been in a sun a very very long time... he didn't just suddenly get exponentially more durable from less than a month of exposure. No way.
Trying to find the whole scene, but at 1:28 while Clark's head gets kocked back, he's alright and Faora and Nam don't really care about in the bullets. Iirc, there's an earlier scene where the A-10 unloads it's anti-armor rounds and they're moved, but again, fine from the bullets, there's no visible damage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqlaXylsMwQ
Using your rules he was actually KO'd twice. First by Abomination for a few moments and then by Tony. Do you think Tony's suit is really superior to a Kryptonian? I doubt even A is.
So a "weak black hole". Alright, fully disagree, but we're at an impasse. You stick to the oil rig when Clark clearly improved and you dismiss the black hole, I see nothing to go forward with. Do you? Don't take that as an insult, it's just what it is.
See above, if you believe his strength increased, then so would his protective aura, all his powers are connected to his YSR absorption.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
......We know it's a black hole. Not contending that. Have said this repeatedly but I do not know why you seem to come back to this.
The question was never about if it was a black hole or not (although it is explicitly a nonstandard one). Again, we KNOW its a black hole. The question was how much force was being applied to him? Was it "hurting his durability" strong or was it "strugging to fly" strong?
Movie seemed to show the latter more than the prior, heck its very explicit about it, and the logic used to try and quantify its strength as being some sort of durability "feat" seemed to be from the sole virtue of it being a black hole. Never mind the fact that nothing around him (even those closer than him) was getting spaghettified or torn apart (until they get to the very center, that is). Again, how is this a durability "feat"? Everything was just falling in. Visual evidence corroborates my interpretation more than it does yours.
Interesting thing, if we apply that to the singularity that destroyed Kurse, nothing really around him was being sucked up except for Loki, so applying like reasoning, Kurse was destroyed by an extremely weak singularity; exponentially weaker than the one in MoS.
Originally posted by Robtard
Interesting thing, if we apply that to the singularity that destroyed Kurse, nothing really around him was being sucked up except for Loki, so applying like reasoning, Kurse was destroyed by an extremely weak singularity; exponentially weaker than the one in MoS.
It was a much smaller one, yes. But Kurse was dead center of the singularity and the gravitational force on said singularity hits "infinite force" (or whatever unknown immeasurable force lies within a singularity). And he basically got sucked into the "infinite force" of the singularity itself. A black hole is not a singularity. The singularity is a point that lies at the very center of a black hole.
Superman wasn't at the center at all. Apples to oranges.