I don't see why people keep trying to disregard the oil rig scene. Just because Clark learned to fly later on doesn't mean he automatically quadrupled his strength and durability too. You guys really think he reached his adult life, drinking up all that sun radiation throughout his life, and yet he was only at half-strength or something but all it took for him to increase his strength and durability was to "accept who he was"?
Originally posted by Adam Grimes
But we can't quantify Faora's speed so we do the next best thing: compare the two scenes which would lead us to conclude that Faora looks almost definitely faster. /shrugWhy would one inherently hurt less? You tell me.
I'd agree with you on that, actually. Faora's movement seemed faster than the ejector to me as well. Tho, I wouldn't say by a lot. My point is that Hulk has showings of hand/foot speed throughout his career. Faora is fast and Hulk's not tagging her for a while. And I will still state that I think she wins by wearing Hulk down more often than not (6/10). But it won't be easy.
That's cuz her durability is questionable (max of her durability seems to be gettting hit by a Maverick air-to-ground missile, not bad but not beyond-Hulk good either) and she doesn't have many great strength "feats" that I can think of. If Hulk grabs her, she gets puny godded. And she's cocky as f-ck, as well. Prone to staredowns and monologing. The same monologing and staredown that didn't work too well with Loki and it is behavior Hulk has shown to exploit in the past. This is Mountan vs. Oberin all over again. One has all the tools to win and should win but one mistake and it's over.
As for your question towards Froth, I'm thinking that one would give you the time to go limp or roll with the impact while the other would just hit you square on.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
You make good points, man. Just one thing, the black hole "feat" being seen as a durability "feat" kinda feels like nonesense to me, tho. Lois was right there with Clark and she really didn't suffer any damage. I mean, if the gravity was strong enough to hurt Superman, it would naturally tear her apart and him being between her and the source of said gravity shouldn't really shield her from its effects.Personally, I see this as more of a flight-power "feat" than a durability "feat". The distortions to his image could be him using his own gravity field to fight against the "black hole's" pull. That's me, tho.
Covered that a page or two ago, that was obvious PIS, cars and huge chunks of building are being sucked up, but Lois falls. The gravity is visibly seen pulling at Clark's body but not hers.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't see why people keep trying to disregard the oil rig scene. Just because Clark learned to fly later on doesn't mean he automatically quadrupled his strength and durability too. You guys really think he reached his adult life, drinking up all that sun radiation throughout his life, and yet he was only at half-strength or something but all it took for him to increase his strength and durability was to "accept who he was"?
Did you watch the movie, his father told him to keep pushing his limits because that would be the only way to figure out how far he could take his abilities.
Obviously when he flew into space he got a long stronger as well. Solar radiation is space is 1000X stronger then on earth.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Hulk buster nor Thor has any combat speed to speak and was able to nullify Hulk, Faora has legit super speed combined with the strength that rivals Hulks.You do know the reason the missile knocked her out right? Superman faced planted her into the ground at speed..
Not saying she was at full health when it happened, but she seemed healthy enough to actually stand up and monologue (not the best time to be monologing, too!) before the missile hit. Next scene was her totally unconscious. Take it as you will, tho.
She was knocked out because of the temporary weakness that was exposed and she took a missile to the face and face planted by Kal El.
You realize that Hulk has been knocked out with no weakness exploit yes?
Acting like these military weapons and missiles should have no effect on anyone is ludicrous, Thor literally runs and takes cover.. And Loki's head has been knocked back by small arms fire.
In the first Hulk, he was trashed by the military many times...and Ko'd a few times..
Please stop acting like these are low showings for the kryptonians and not for MCU.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I'd agree with you on that, actually. Faora's movement seemed faster than the ejector to me as well. Tho, I wouldn't say by a lot. My point is that Hulk has showings of hand/foot speed throughout his career. Faora is fast and Hulk's not tagging her for a while. And I will still state that I think she wins by wearing Hulk down more often than not (6/10). But it won't be easy.That's cuz her durability is questionable (max of her durability seems to be gettting hit by a Maverick air-to-ground missile, not bad but not beyond-Hulk good either) and she doesn't have many great strength "feats" that I can think of. If Hulk grabs her, she gets puny godded. And she's cocky as f-ck, as well. Prone to staredowns and monologing. The same monologing and staredown that didn't work too well with Loki and it is behavior Hulk has shown to exploit in the past. This is Mountan vs. Oberin all over again. One has all the tools to win and should win but one mistake and it's over.
As for your question towards Froth, I'm thinking that one would give you the time to go limp or roll with the impact while the other would just hit you square on.
Monologuing is automatically off in these forum fights. Can we please stop with this Monologuing to try and circumvent a legit forum fight?
Originally posted by Robtard
Covered that a page or two ago, that was obvious PIS, cars and huge chunks of building are being sucked up, but Lois falls. The gravity is visibly seen pulling at Clark's body but not hers.
Well, I thoight that was stupid, too. TBH. I justified it in my head by simply thinking Lois was already accelerating (fall plus explosion) prior to the black hole starting its pull on everything. It did seem, however, that she started getting pulled in after a few seconds just as Supes grabbed her.
Again, it's really hard for me to see this as anything but a flight power "feat" as they weren't even close to the singularity and the needed durability in "resisting its pull" can't really be quantified and we have inconsistencies like a nondurable bystander being right there and not being torn apart. I mean cars and loose chunks of buildings being pulled in doesn't really quantify the gravitational pull as all you need is for the pull to be stronger than 1g for things to start getting pulled towards it regardless of size, in fact more mass would actually make you more susceptible, wouldn't it? If it was supposedly so strong that it could tear things apart, wouldn't it actually tear the surrounding buildings from their foundations? And from what I remember from black holes, doesn't the damage happen when you hit very close to the singularity itself and get spaghettified? Bottom line, if the filmmakers wanted to portray the "black hole" as being so strong that it was hurting Superman, wouldn't they have been more explicit about it? Like maybe tear up his cape or suit at least? Wayyyy too many inconsistencies.
Don't get me wrong, the gravitational pull was obviously very very strong to make him struggle like that. But I still don't see how this is a durability "feat".
Originally posted by RobtardSo you dismiss showings because you're biased. Using the term pis means you can ignore facts to suit your own bias.youre a very sad little cuck.
Covered that a page or two ago, that was obvious PIS, cars and huge chunks of building are being sucked up, but Lois falls. The gravity is visibly seen pulling at Clark's body but not hers.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
She was knocked out because of the temporary weakness that was exposed and she took a missile to the face and face planted by Kal El.You realize that Hulk has been knocked out with no weakness exploit yes?
Acting like these military weapons and missiles should have no effect on anyone is ludicrous, Thor literally runs and takes cover.. And Loki's head has been knocked back by small arms fire.
In the first Hulk, he was trashed by the military many times...and Ko'd a few times..
Please stop acting like these are low showings for the kryptonians and not for MCU.
Again, never said she was in full health. But she's taken a tackle from Kal El before and she seemed ok. And that time she also got shoved thru hard objects as well. And I understand that Kal El sucker punched (or, to be more accurate, sucker tackled her) right as she was about to stab Mr. balding soldier.
Thing is, it wasn't the sucker tackle that KO'd her, she was still well enough to stand and talk right after. It was the missile impact.
Hulk was way weaker in the Ang Lee verion, tho. There was a clear power creep from first Hulk going to Avengers.
If we don't use the Maverick missile showing, how exactly are we supposed to quantify the limits of her durability? I don't remember a lot of "feats" for Faora durability wise (heck I don't even remember her taking a direct hit from Kal outside of getting tackled and slammed cuz Nam Ek kept interfering everytime she got put in a bad position), can you post some?
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Well, I thoight that was stupid, too. TBH. I justified it in my head by simply thinking Lois was already accelerating (fall plus explosion) prior to the black hole starting its pull on everything. It did seem, however, that she started getting pulled in after a few seconds just as Supes grabbed her.Again, it's really hard for me to see this as anything but a flight power "feat" as they weren't even close to the singularity and the needed durability in "resisting its pull" can't really be quantified and we have inconsistencies like a nondurable bystander being right there and not being torn apart. I mean cars and loose chunks of buildings being pulled in doesn't really quantify the gravitational pull as all you need is for the pull to be stronger than 1g for things to start getting pulled towards it regardless of size, in fact more mass would actually make you more susceptible, wouldn't it? If it was supposedly so strong that it could tear things apart, wouldn't it actually tear the surrounding buildings from their foundations? And from what I remember from black holes, doesn't the damage happen when you hit very close to the singularity itself and get spaghettified? Bottom line, if the filmmakers wanted to portray the "black hole" as being so strong that it was hurting Superman, wouldn't they have been more explicit about it? Like maybe tear up his cape or suit at least? Wayyyy too many inconsistencies.
Don't get me wrong, the gravitational pull was obviously very very strong to make him struggle like that. But I still don't see how this is a durability "feat".
Because of the nature of a black hole and the "spaghetti" affect the extreme gravity has on matter since the pull wouldn't be uniform across said object. iirc, Michio Kaku described this, might have been some other physicist. Either way, we see the effect on his body.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
His body was being pulled apart and he resisted it, how is that not a durability feat, he resisted disintegration...people here use Loki falling from Asgard into the vacuum of space and consider that a durability feat, so that counts and Clarks does not? Can you clarify that one?
Was anything else getting disintegrated? Why did the surrounding building not get disintegrated themselves, didn't they resist the same forces? Falling cars didn't seem disintegrated to me?
Wait, who used Loki falling from space as a durability "feat"? And when did this "feat" happen? I don't recall that ever happening. Was that the Bifrost instance? Did he hit anything? How is that a durability "feat"? You'd be right to dismiss that as a durability "feat" IMO.
Originally posted by Robtard
Because of the nature of a black hole and the "spaghetti" affect the extreme gravity has on matter since the pull wouldn't be uniform across said object. iirc, Michio Kaku described this, might have been some other physicist. Either way, we see the effect on his body.
Wait, that doesn't make sense to me. Not the information, the actual wording. Can you rephrase?
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Wait, that doesn't make sense to me. Not the information, the actual wording. Can you rephrase?
If you were to approach a black hole head first, the gravity pull at the top of your head would be slightly greater than the pull at your feet, but factoring in the extreme levels of gravity/pull in play, it would "spaghetti" you. ie pull you apart due to the varying degrees of gravity pulling at your body.
edit: here you go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghettification
We visibly see Clark's body being affected by the pull.
Originally posted by Robtard
Very good point here 👆
That is a two way street, tho. If you are willing to accept that Superman increased his durability, even tho it was never really explicitly mentioned. That he got tougher because one scene hints at some sort of improvement to his abilities and future "feats" corroborate this increase in ability (time plus sun exposure plus future "feats" = tougher Superman) you also need to accept that Hulk got more powerful because of the same parameters (time plus meditation/learning his power/always angry mindset plus future "feats" equals more powerful Hulk). Essentially, if you accept this explanation, you better accept that Avenger Hulk >>>> prior Hulks. I'm more than happy to say the oil rig scene was a weaker Superman (from my end anyway) if you do so.