Faora vs. MCU Hulk

Originally posted by Robtard
Question: How is it a "surprise attack" when the Hulk was fully aware he was battling IM and had been moments before he got KO'd?

Surprised in the way you're thinking is the wrong term. What I mean is, he wasn't expecting that kind of attack. I'd be like me fighting a guy and him pulling out a UV grenade that blinds me (silly I know). Sure I was in a fight, and knew I was in a fight, doesn't mean I wasn't surprised by that attack. In each instance Clark was KO'd he knew what he was up against or feeling i.e. Oil Rig, punches from Faora and Nam, getting slammed by Faora, WE etc etc. He wasn't surprised by any of the attacks. What hit Hulk seemed to blinded him as he wasn't expecting that. That is how I meant surprise attack.

Let me ask you Rob, who has better durability, Hulk vs. Faora and Superman.. Rank them please.

IM punched him, as he had been punching him many times before trying to KO the Hulk, remember Tony repeatedly saying "go to sleep" (or similar) while speed-punching Hulk?

Really not sure why there needs to be excuses for the Hulk being KO'd, he had a building come crashing down on him; that dazed him enough for a punch to finish it.

Kyptonians (at least Clark) are higher, him standing underneath the WE while being actively weakened isn't a low showing even if it took him out for a few moments. We see the power affecting his body but he's resisting.

Another is resisting the pull of a black hole. The Lois thing is obvious PIS, she was for plot reasons not affected, we see cars and large chunks of building being sucked up, yet she falls. We see the effects the gravity has on Clark's body, yet she is untouched. If we're arguing honestly and not doing silly lowballing or troll tactics to win.

It's okay with me if you want to count that as a KO, but the point is, he's still been KO'd less times and has better durability.

Ranking?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Oops, I missed this one (reread my posts to see if I used the word "screaming" and ended up seeing this).

Anyway, I'm more inclined to believe that a rage monster driven insane by rage hitting the side of the plane would not have the logical foresight to try and anticipate an ejector launch "just because". You are free to believe otherwise, however.

The last position Hulk was in prior to the ejector launch is him punching the side of the plane, not waiting for the ejector to launch. Regardless of how you see it, tho (whether he expected it or not), Hulk caught something accelerating at 117m/s2 at least.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It is, but him surviving the fall (to me anyway) seemed more a bit of circumstance than him actually increasing durability since the oil rig scene.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes

What do you mean with that?

It's similar to why you can't tickle yourself despite doing the exact same thing someone else would do to tickle you.

Think of it this way, which is more painful: Punching through a 1 inch plank of wood or getting 1 inch plank of wood slammed on your fist?

Majority of high level martial artists have hardened their fists so that they can punch through slabs of concrete, but that's different from when you get a slab of concrete and smash it on their hands. They'll still feel pain from that and can get injured by it.

Point is, when you're the one initiating the action, you are better able to prepare yourself and your body for the consequences. In this case, Superman crashing on the mountainside was due to him messing up his flight but he was still the initiator of the action, whereas getting smashed by the oil rig wasn't him. Does this make sense?

If it still doesn't, just ask yourself. Would you rather headbutt someone or have someone headbutt you?

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's similar to why you can't tickle yourself despite doing the exact same thing someone else would do to tickle you.

Think of it this way, which is more painful: Punching through a 1 inch plank of wood or getting 1 inch plank of wood slammed on your fist?

Majority of high level martial artists have hardened their fists so that they can punch through slabs of concrete, but that's different from when you get a slab of concrete and smash it on their hands. They'll still feel pain from that and can get injured by it.

Point is, when you're the one initiating the action, you are better able to prepare yourself and your body for the consequences. In this case, Superman crashing on the mountainside was due to him messing up his flight but he was still the initiator of the action, whereas getting smashed by the oil rig wasn't him. Does this make sense?

If it still doesn't, just ask yourself. Would you rather headbutt someone or have someone headbutt you?

In regards to your analogy; a more appropriate one would be someone riding a bike for the first time and crashing into a car due to their inexperience. Do you think that just because you were riding the bike and the accident was your doing you would be just fine afterwards?

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
That would imply some level of control. Why would he go face first or even crash at all if that was the case?

In regards to your analogy; a more appropriate one would be someone riding a bike for the first time and crashing into a car due to their inexperience. Do you think that just because you were riding the bike and the accident was your doing you would be just fine afterwards?

Ok let's use your example. What would be more painful: You riding a bike, losing control then crashing into the car? Or you riding a bike when a car suddenly crashes into you?

Originally posted by Robtard
Question: How is it a "surprise attack" when the Hulk was fully aware he was battling IM and had been moments before he got KO'd?

Originally posted by Robtard
Question: How is it a "surprise attack" when the Hulk was fully aware he was battling IM and had been moments before he got KO'd?

Getting hit while distracted tends to be extremely devestating in a fight. Silva KO'd Bisping (although the ref let it continue) on a momentary distraction. Imagine that level of distraction 100x.

Hulk was hit right after the he gained back his senses IIRC. When Wandas mindphuck of Hulk faded, Hulk was confronted by the realization of the destruction he's wrought and the fear and pain he's caused. Essentially the fading of the mindphuck plus the sudden scene of his actions and its results caused him to be discombobulated, confused and distracted and completely took his attention away from the fight.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Getting hit while distracted tends to be extremely devestating in a fight. Silva KO'd Bisping (although the ref let it continue) on a momentary distraction. Imagine that level of distraction 100x.

Hulk was hit right after the he gained back his senses IIRC. When Wandas mindphuck of Hulk faded, Hulk was confronted by the realization of the destruction he's wrought and the fear and pain he's caused. Essentially the fading of the mindphuck plus the sudden scene of his actions and its results caused him to be discombobulated, confused and distracted and completely took his attention away from the fight.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Fair enough I guess. Going by the visuals of both scenes Faora appeared to be far faster that the ejected pilot, though.

Going thru Hulk "feats", his Ang Lee version does have the bullet swatting "feat". Tho I loathe to use Ang Lee Hulk "feats" so take this as you will.

http://youtu.be/RIf4nQ058LY

(3:25) he swatted a round fired from a Comanche attack helicopter's XM301 20mm cannon with a muzzle velocity of 1030 m/s.

(3:27) he did it again.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Fair enough I guess. Going by the visuals of both scenes Faora appeared to be far faster that the ejected pilot, though.

Eegh. By posting the bullet swatting "feat" and thb visually confirming/reconfirming it, I realized I ran out of time to post an actual response to your point. I will do that now.

"Faster" would be a fair assesment IMO. But "far faster" I might disagree with. Appeances of speed are different depending on the angle where a shot is taken When watching F1 races, shots from the front/rear makes the cars look far slower than when you take the shots from the side (where you would just see them zip past).

I'm not a photographer so I don't have a word to describe or knowledge to quantify the phenomenon (or even means to verify if what I'm saying is correct), but that is just from personal experience.

Anyway, we don't really have to go by how things look for as long as we can quantify said "feats" via speed/accel.

Let's also consider that obviously exposure to Gamma radiation obviously increases a variety of abilities. This is not only common knowledge but common sense. Hulk clearly has heighted perception and reactions. To powerscale for a moment here, Abom literally had his back turned after a rocket was fired at him. Still was fast enough to turn around and grab the rocket mid air.

Now before we go, Oh well that's abom not Hulk, true, but that doesn't preclude Hulk from doing the same or better. In fact, we see the Hulk able to react just fine to Abom, and we don't see Abom appearing to be perceiving things faster or better than Hulk. They were very comparable. Thus, if Abom can do that, and Hulk can do things like catch Mjolnir mid air, we can certainly take the logical progression of Hulk could do that as well.

As mentioned above, in the Avengers Hulk caught a hammer throw with his hand. He was sent backwards as he's unable to lift it. However, that doesn't change the fact that he caught it mid air with his hand. That would take incredible speed and reactions to pull off. Shit, if we even brought up comics, we could see faster than light feats for his hammer. However, let's say we don't know excactly how fast, well, we know it's pretty damn fast.

Hulk would have NO issue with catching up to Faora at some point. It may not be right away, but he'd catch her, and when he does..... HULK SMASHHHHHH

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Going thru Hulk "feats", his Ang Lee version does have the bullet swatting "feat". Tho I loathe to use Ang Lee Hulk "feats" so take this as you will.

http://youtu.be/RIf4nQ058LY

(3:25) he swatted a round fired from a Comanche attack helicopter's XM301 20mm cannon with a muzzle velocity of 1030 m/s.

(3:27) he did it again.

Need to correct this. From more careful viewing (curse you for making me watch a scene from Ang Lee Hulk multiple times!), it looks like he swatted away rockets fired from their rocket subsystems.

AFAIK, FFAR rockets still have an effective speed of well over 600-700m/s (I think). Too lazy (and sick) to research this extensively for now, hoewever. Need someone to look into this, if possible. :-p

Originally posted by Robtard
IM punched him, as he had been punching him many times before trying to KO the Hulk, remember Tony repeatedly saying "go to sleep" (or similar) while speed-punching Hulk?

Really not sure why there needs to be excuses for the Hulk being KO'd, he had a building come crashing down on him; that dazed him enough for a punch to finish it.

Kyptonians (at least Clark) are higher, him standing underneath the WE while being actively weakened isn't a low showing even if it took him out for a few moments. We see the power affecting his body but he's resisting.

Another is resisting the pull of a black hole. The Lois thing is obvious PIS, she was for plot reasons not affected, we see cars and large chunks of building being sucked up, yet she falls. We see the effects the gravity has on Clark's body, yet she is untouched. If we're arguing honestly and not doing silly lowballing or troll tactics to win.

See, this logic just makes no sense to me. Hulk has unquestionably better durability feats than any Kryptonian. I mean it's not even all that close. Think about it, the best way to compare individuals, is to compare them at comparable things or situations. In this case, it's gunfire, punches and structures collapsing. Those are the comparable things.

1. Military fire of all kinds. Here we see an edge in Hulk's favor. Dramatic, no, but it's there. He's simply taken fire better. The example of both Superman and Nam being visibly hurt, and even sent flying. We've seen Hulk take comparable fire from comparable sources and it hasn't bothered him. Just to throw Faora in there, since she's in the thread, she was KO'd by a missle. Sure she was a little vulnerable from her mask being exploited, but that likely didn't affect her durability much if at all. It affected her reactions, perceptions and thoughts, but not the actual concussive force of the missle. She was extra susceptible to that because of her mask. She was KO'd.

2. Punches - We see Hulk take shots from Superpowered beings with superpowered magical weapons. Abom, Thor and IM have whaled on him to almost no effect. Sure, he's been stunned and slightly hurt, but he's not KO'd (THe IM situation not withstanding as there was certainly lots of context there). In stark contrast, Kryptonians have been. Clark was KO'd by punches from Nam and Faora. He was likely KO'd by Faora another time from being body slammed. Zod having his neck snapped. Zod was Ko'd by punches from Jor-El. Both Faora and Zod were taken out by punches that exploited their mask, but also stunned them regardless. Point is, Hulk has a better track record.

3. Structures and explosions - Here we see Hulk to remarkably better. Superman has been KO'd by an Oil Rig falling on him. Hulk has had huge buildings fall on him to no affect. Mind you, they've fallen on him AFTER being in physically confrontations just prior. Superman had nothing compromised. Then we have the WE explosion. No matter how impressive you think it is that he powered through the gravitational beam, he was still KO'd by the explosion. Now, we can cut him a little slack since he was in an environment that weakened him, but stil, that doesn't change the Oil Rig showing, nor the stuff mentioned above. Hulk has simply taken explosions and structures falling on him better.

Those are the things we can compare. Absence of proof isn't proof. Hulk wasn't there to tank the WE explosion. He wasn't there or had a comparable situation in his movie, well, that doesn't prove he couldn't. You see, if we didn't have comparable feats and situations like the above, then we'd have to start comparing the individual feats and how they stack up. Luck for us, we don't have to do that here. They have comparable feats and situations, and Hulk comes out on top

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Need to correct this. From more careful viewing (curse you for making me watch a scene from Ang Lee Hulk multiple times!), it looks like he swatted away rockets fired from their rocket subsystems.

AFAIK, FFAR rockets still have an effective speed of well over 600-700m/s (I think). Too lazy (and sick) to research this extensively for now, hoewever. Need someone to look into this, if possible. :-p

Another correction: Comaches actually carry hellfires (450 m/s) and stinger missles (750 m/s).

In my defense, I'm sick today and (admittedly) have done less scrutiny/research before posting.

Anyway, can we just say Hulk swatted away something really really fast and call it a day?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Let's also consider that obviously exposure to Gamma radiation obviously increases a variety of abilities. This is not only common knowledge but common sense. Hulk clearly has heighted perception and reactions. To powerscale for a moment here, Abom literally had his back turned after a rocket was fired at him. Still was fast enough to turn around and grab the rocket mid air.

Now before we go, Oh well that's abom not Hulk, true, but that doesn't preclude Hulk from doing the same or better. In fact, we see the Hulk able to react just fine to Abom, and we don't see Abom appearing to be perceiving things faster or better than Hulk. They were very comparable. Thus, if Abom can do that, and Hulk can do things like catch Mjolnir mid air, we can certainly take the logical progression of Hulk could do that as well.

As mentioned above, in the Avengers Hulk caught a hammer throw with his hand. He was sent backwards as he's unable to lift it. However, that doesn't change the fact that he caught it mid air with his hand. That would take incredible speed and reactions to pull off. Shit, if we even brought up comics, we could see faster than light feats for his hammer. However, let's say we don't know excactly how fast, well, we know it's pretty damn fast.

Hulk would have NO issue with catching up to Faora at some point. It may not be right away, but he'd catch her, and when he does..... HULK SMASHHHHHH

You can always use the Ironman fight. Hulk was swatting away Ironman parts that were trying to attach to him and Hulk wasn't even looking in that direction.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
See, this logic just makes no sense to me. Hulk has unquestionably better durability feats than any Kryptonian. I mean it's not even all that close. Think about it, the best way to compare individuals, is to compare them at comparable things or situations. In this case, it's gunfire, punches and structures collapsing. Those are the comparable things.

1. Military fire of all kinds. Here we see an edge in Hulk's favor. Dramatic, no, but it's there. He's simply taken fire better. The example of both Superman and Nam being visibly hurt, and even sent flying. We've seen Hulk take comparable fire from comparable sources and it hasn't bothered him. Just to throw Faora in there, since she's in the thread, she was KO'd by a missle. Sure she was a little vulnerable from her mask being exploited, but that likely didn't affect her durability much if at all. It affected her reactions, perceptions and thoughts, but not the actual concussive force of the missle. She was extra susceptible to that because of her mask. She was KO'd.

2. Punches - We see Hulk take shots from Superpowered beings with superpowered magical weapons. Abom, Thor and IM have whaled on him to almost no effect. Sure, he's been stunned and slightly hurt, but he's not KO'd (THe IM situation not withstanding as there was certainly lots of context there). In stark contrast, Kryptonians have been. Clark was KO'd by punches from Nam and Faora. He was likely KO'd by Faora another time from being body slammed. Zod having his neck snapped. Zod was Ko'd by punches from Jor-El. Both Faora and Zod were taken out by punches that exploited their mask, but also stunned them regardless. Point is, Hulk has a better track record.

3. Structures and explosions - Here we see Hulk to remarkably better. Superman has been KO'd by an Oil Rig falling on him. Hulk has had huge buildings fall on him to no affect. Mind you, they've fallen on him AFTER being in physically confrontations just prior. Superman had nothing compromised. Then we have the WE explosion. No matter how impressive you think it is that he powered through the gravitational beam, he was still KO'd by the explosion. Now, we can cut him a little slack since he was in an environment that weakened him, but stil, that doesn't change the Oil Rig showing, nor the stuff mentioned above. Hulk has simply taken explosions and structures falling on him better.

Those are the things we can compare. Absence of proof isn't proof. Hulk wasn't there to tank the WE explosion. He wasn't there or had a comparable situation in his movie, well, that doesn't prove he couldn't. You see, if we didn't have comparable feats and situations like the above, then we'd have to start comparing the individual feats and how they stack up. Luck for us, we don't have to do that here. They have comparable feats and situations, and Hulk comes out on top

I've no problem comparing similarities, but ignoring higher feats of one because the other hasn't experienced the same is flawed. eg if Hulk had tanked a nuke, would you be okay to not allow that because someone else hasn't? You wouldn't.

-Krpts weren't damaged by the bullets, if they were physically moved, it's likely cos they don't have Hulk's mass and don't weight 1,000+ pounds

-Punches, Krpts took punches from super-powered beings too, each other

-The oil rig nonsense has to stop. That was before Clark had focused his powers and became more powerful as per his dad's instructions

See above, it's not absence of proof. Clark's body survived and overpowered the pull of a black hole, we don't just ignore that because Hulk's never faced a black hole. Clark has survived greater; that tells me his durability is higher.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Eegh. By posting the bullet swatting "feat" and thb visually confirming/reconfirming it, I realized I ran out of time to post an actual response to your point. I will do that now.

"Faster" would be a fair assesment IMO. But "far faster" I might disagree with. Appeances of speed are different depending on the angle where a shot is taken When watching F1 races, shots from the front/rear makes the cars look far slower than when you take the shots from the side (where you would just see them zip past).

I'm not a photographer so I don't have a word to describe or knowledge to quantify the phenomenon (or even means to verify if what I'm saying is correct), but that is just from personal experience.

Anyway, we don't really have to go by how things look for as long as we can quantify said "feats" via speed/accel.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok let's use your example. What would be more painful: You riding a bike, losing control then crashing into the car? Or you riding a bike when a car suddenly crashes into you?

Originally posted by Robtard
I've no problem comparing similarities, but ignoring higher feats of one because the other hasn't experienced the same is flawed. eg if Hulk had tanked a nuke, would you be okay to not allow that because someone else hasn't? You wouldn't.

-Krpts weren't damaged by the bullets, if they were physically moved, it's likely cos they don't have Hulk's mass and don't weight 1,000+ pounds

-Punches, Krpts took punches from super-powered beings too, each other

-The oil rig nonsense has to stop. That was before Clark had focused his powers and became more powerful as per his dad's instructions

See above, it's not absence of proof. Clark's body survived and overpowered the pull of a black hole, we don't just ignore that because Hulk's never faced a black hole. Clark has survived greater; that tells me his durability is higher.

You make good points, man. Just one thing, the black hole "feat" being seen as a durability "feat" kinda feels like nonesense to me, tho. Lois was right there with Clark and she really didn't suffer any damage. I mean, if the gravity was strong enough to hurt Superman, it would naturally tear her apart and him being between her and the source of said gravity shouldn't really shield her from its effects.

Personally, I see this as more of a flight-power "feat" than a durability "feat". The distortions to his image could be him using his own gravity field to fight against the "black hole's" pull. That's me, tho.