Originally posted by FrothByte
So basically what you're saying is you are unable to post proof of Elektra, Ozy or Legolas doing more acrobatics than Cap. Am I right?
So you were unable to read what I said. Did you miss the part where I directly challenged you In Re: Legolas??? I know you didn't, but yet you turn around and go.. I'm unable to provide proof.. LMAO. Let me know if you accept, until then, learn how to fing read.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So you were unable to read what I said. Did you miss the part where I directly challenged you In Re: Legolas??? I know you didn't, but yet you turn around and go.. I'm unable to provide proof.. LMAO. Let me know if you accept, until then, learn how to fing read.
IOW, you are admitting that Cap has better agility feats than Ozy.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So you were unable to read what I said. Did you miss the part where I directly challenged you In Re: Legolas??? I know you didn't, but yet you turn around and go.. I'm unable to provide proof.. LMAO. Let me know if you accept, until then, learn how to fing read.
I read that and I disagree with your opinion. The difference between us is I actually supported my stance with a video. With a feat displaying Cap's acrobatic skills. Now unless you provide some proof to back up your opinion, all you really have are words.
So please, feel free to provide proof of Elektra, Legolas or Ozy actually doing more acrobatics than Cap.
Originally posted by FrothByte
He's also been unable to provide proof of how exactly Night Owl, Roscharch and Comedian are supposedly legit peak humans whereas BW and Batroc are questionable.
Okay, it's official, you're Quan level now. That is pretty damn pitiful and sad. I SPECIFICALLY in my post that completely owned you, that you are UNABLE to counter... I said WS is above Batroc. Shit, I even said he's above N.O. and RO. individually and would likely win. I classified Batroc as having peak human skill. I referenced N.O. and RO. as having peak human skill with superhuman durability. I then referenced WS and Peak Human skill, as well as Superhuman qualities as well. What I maintained and owned you is that
Batroc is more skilled than RO and N.O. combined. Not even close. N.O. and RO 2 v 1 is more of a formidable h2h test than batroc one v one. 100% fact. Yet, Cap with his shield was still getting pushed back and was losing early on IN STARK CONTRAST... Ozy was barely trying, doing monologues, turning his back to BETTER people, and still didn't get ONE blow landed on him. Not one. His display there poops on Cap's. Period.
Same thing with WS. Even if we say he's as formidable as N.O. and RO combined (I don't think so at all) but lets say he's. He'd only be slightly more formidable 1 v 1 than they are 2 v 1. Yet, Cap while again trying, had a long draw out fight with him. Again, Ozy, effortlessly destroys guys 2 v 1 who are just as skilled.
Now Imagine Ozy really trying, Bucky would get owned, and to be frank, he would be doing monologue as he's kicking the crap out of him. Let me know if you accept my challenge
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay, it's official, you're Quan level now. That is pretty damn pitiful and sad. I SPECIFICALLY in my post that completely owned you, that you are UNABLE to counter... I said WS is above Batroc. Shit, I even said he's above N.O. and RO. individually and would likely win. I classified Batroc as having peak human skill. I referenced N.O. and RO. as having peak human skill with superhuman durability. I then referenced WS and Peak Human skill, as well as Superhuman qualities as well. What I maintained and owned you is thatBatroc is more skilled than RO and N.O. combined. Not even close. N.O. and RO 2 v 1 is more of a formidable h2h test than batroc one v one. 100% fact. Yet, Cap with his shield was still getting pushed back and was losing early on IN STARK CONTRAST... Ozy was barely trying, doing monologues, turning his back to BETTER people, and still didn't get ONE blow landed on him. Not one. His display there poops on Cap's. Period.
Same thing with WS. Even if we say he's as formidable as N.O. and RO combined (I don't think so at all) but lets say he's. He'd only be slightly more formidable 1 v 1 than they are 2 v 1. Yet, Cap while again trying, had a long draw out fight with him. Again, Ozy, effortlessly destroys guys 2 v 1 who are just as skilled.
Now Imagine Ozy really trying, Bucky would get owned, and to be frank, he would be doing monologue as he's kicking the crap out of him. Let me know if you accept my challenge
I was going to reply to this but realized I'll wait for you first to post proof of Ozy, Elektra or Legolas doing more acrobatics than Cap. That way we're not debating all over the place..
Originally posted by FrothByte
I read that and I disagree with your opinion. The difference between us is I actually supported my stance with a video. With a feat displaying Cap's acrobatic skills. Now unless you provide some proof to back up your opinion, all you really have are words.So please, feel free to provide proof of Elektra, Legolas or Ozy actually doing more acrobatics than Cap.
Again, reading comprehension for the loss. I never once claimed Ozy had more acrobatics than Cap. However seeing that he's quite a bit faster than Cap in speed and reactions, and has been shown jumping as high or higher.. it's safe to say he could pull off anything Cap could, and likely easier and look better doing it. Now, you can say it's all talk if you want, but trust me, I'm more interested in embarrassing you since you are continuing to misrepresent what I'm saying. Over and over. Starting with you claiming something about needing to see something on screen in order to believe (strength discussion), and then turning around and claiming it's me who needs to see something. When the entire discussion was about us not always having to see shit. Once that happens, you were exposed as a liar, and well frankly, somebody who can't comprehend arguments. Thus, I'm done bsing. You called me out about Legolas, now I'm calling you out.
Also, notice how I mentioned daredevil NUMEROUS times as having more finesse.. funny you never mention him. Let me know if you want to do a comparison with Legolas. I'm game.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I was going to reply to this but realized I'll wait for you first to post proof of Ozy, Elektra or Legolas doing more acrobatics than Cap. That way we're not debating all over the place..
Concession accepted. Now tuck tail and run little guy. Let me know if you want me to embarrass you. Until then, stop exposing your reading comprehension failures. You're bad at this. Example
I never, not once mention Ozy showcasing more acrobatics. Yet he's here, as if I claimed that. Yet somebody I did claim had more acrobatics... isn't even mentioned as something I claimed i.e. DareDevil. How pathetic. I accept your concession that you can't counter my posts and you refuse to accept my BZ challenge
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Again, reading comprehension for the loss. I never once claimed Ozy had more acrobatics than Cap. However seeing that he's quite a bit faster than Cap in speed and reactions, and has been shown jumping as high or higher.. it's safe to say he could pull off anything Cap could, and likely easier and look better doing it. Now, you can say it's all talk if you want, but trust me, I'm more interested in embarrassing you since you are continuing to misrepresent what I'm saying. Over and over. Starting with you claiming something about needing to see something on screen in order to believe (strength discussion), and then turning around and claiming it's me who needs to see something. When the entire discussion was about us not always having to see shit. Once that happens, you were exposed as a liar, and well frankly, somebody who can't comprehend arguments. Thus, I'm done bsing. You called me out about Legolas, now I'm calling you out.Also, notice how I mentioned daredevil NUMEROUS times as having more finesse.. funny you never mention him. Let me know if you want to do a comparison with Legolas. I'm game.
Why are you adding "finesse" into the mix? You originally only started with acrobatics. You also mentioned that you believe Ozy to be a martial arts expert but not Cap, because Cap doesn't do "acrobatics".
I don't mention DD because I agree he's more acrobatic than Cap. But I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that Elektra and Legolas are more acrobatic.
Also, do you concede that Ozy is not more acrobatic than Cap? Because if so, in your own words, that would make Ozy a brick no?
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I was right. This did not lead anywhere productive. It turned from Ozy vs WS into a gymnastics competition between Cap, Legolas, Ozy and Elektra.And Elektra wins, because I'd rather watch her do the splits than the other three. 😛
Somewhere 100 pages back KT implied that you don't get to be a martial arts expert unless doing these fancy acrobatic moves. Paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Why are you adding "finesse" into the mix? You originally only started with acrobatics. You also mentioned that you believe Ozy to be a martial arts expert but not Cap, because Cap doesn't do "acrobatics".I don't mention DD because I agree he's more acrobatic than Cap. But I'm still waiting for you to prove to me that Elektra and Legolas are more acrobatic.
Also, do you concede that Ozy is not more acrobatic than Cap? Because if so, in your own words, that would make Ozy a brick no?
So are you accepting my legolas challenge or not? I'm not what you're saying here. Are you saying you don't want to BZ me on this, but just want me to post feats in this thread? Is that what you're saying?
Further, Acrobatics prove finesse when you're also doing things to put down your enemy while in the air. They don't need to just fly around all over. The skill I'm referring to, and what I thought was common sense.. things like acrobatics while fighting show a level of skill and finesse. It shows you can beat your foe without having to overpower them with your strength... i.e. grappling or simply punching people really damn hard. Elektra RELIES on her skill and finesse to beat people. She doesn't really as much on power, strength and durability as Cap. THAT is the point I'm making. Seeing as you having competed or trained in a combat sport in your life, I understand how you didn't pick up on the obvious. When I'm talking acrobatics and finesse, we're talking people who use skill more than power. Elektra uses skill more than power. Legolas uses skill more than power. Ozy uses both, but didn't display much acrobatic finesse while fighting. He undoubtedly could though. However, the others listed rely on their skill to win the day much more than Cap does. THAT is the point.
of course not, but he could do so, and easier. We see how high he can jump and with how much precision. We see how fast he is and how fast he can react. We see his skill of never having a blow landed on him by peak human skill level guys. Proving his skill. Yet you think with that speed and agility and a hyper genius... you think he have a hard time flipping in the air and kicking a few people? Is common sense your friend? Point is, Ozy showed his skill in other ways. It wasn't acrobatic h2h finesse, but turning your back.. casually doing things while seemingly not trying against high level dudes. Prove his skill. He's THAT good.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Incorrect, Ozy would deal with the elevator situation much better and with ease. It's as simple as that. That is just want he does to these level guys. He's much faster than Cap based on feats.. Clearly better and dealing with people attacking him from behind and still not being able to land. Legit peak human skill level guys. Not a hit. Being faster and that skilled means he's doing his monologue while laughing at them and destroying them. It's that simple. You know it I know it.
You ask for feats that Ozy doesn't have, but guess what neither does Cap. Who's the best people Cap fought and won against name somebody stronger, faster and more powerful that Cap beat? Nobody. It's irrelevant to the point. Here's what is important here, the key fights against similar people and how they fared. Let's examine...
Elevator scene for Capf as an example. Ozy has dealt with multiple foes, better foes at the same time and literally laughed at them. His track record against multiple foes is stellar. Cap's on the other hand isn't as stellar. Fact. He's done good, but not as good, as Ozy has done against multiple better foes. Check Ozy
How about against Peak human level skill guys. Let's examine.
Cap has fought WS and Batroc. In both cases they were long drawn out fights. Prolonged fights even. In the situation of the WS, I'll cut him a little more slack. I'll concede he's more formidable than Batroc, and thus it should be harder.. but that hard? Let's go further
Now examine how Batroc did against Cap who was trying to put him down and apprehend him and.. and... had his shield. Still had multiple blows landed on him and it was a long drawn out fight. One could even say Batroc had the advantage early on. He had no shield, and was forcing the action and landing blows.
Then take how a non trying Ozy, non trying is the key here.. he then proceeds to kick the ever long crap out of N.O. and RO without getting one, not one hit landed on him. Are these guys subpar to batroc? No, on the contrary, each of them individually could keep up with batroc h2h and pull wins as well imo. Either. However, lets' say batroc is slightly better than both individually.. well, he's certainly not better than both of them combined. 2 guys as skilled as N.O. and RO. are without question more formindable than Batroc alone (with a shield). Lets' examine how he did... well he didn't have a single fing blow landed on him and look effortless in kicking the crap out of them. As if it was a walk in the park.
How about another peak human and superhuman in some areas Comedian... Did he do worse, did he struggle? Not in any way. He still looked casual in every single thing he did. Casually moving so fast to be right next to Comedian before he coucl fire and react.. even being more than 15 away to start. Effortless. Then proceeds to kick the shit out of the comedian with utter ease. Not even getting hit flush and only got pushed back by a bull rush... then quickly dodged ducked and destroyed him. Efforlessly.
In contrast Cap did get serious, and I will not dispute he just said okay, let me go to this level, and that level dominated batroc. Problem is, Ozy didn't even go to that level. He never ramped it up. He did so effortlessly against more formidable foes.
I concede WS is better than Batroc, but again it was a struggle, and again it wasn't effortless. Again WS is not formindable alone in h2h combat than both RO or NO. or even the comedian. He's simply not. Again Cap struggles, he's trying, he's straining.. Ozy does struggle and he's not even trying. As I said Bucky is formindable, and Cap beat him. He gets loads of credit for it. However, the contrasts in the ease in which they won is the telling thing here.
So now where are we:
Against multiple trained foes - Ozy
Against peak human level foes - again Ozy
Those are what we can compare, not things neither has faced. All you need to do is use logic and common sense and you'll realize the ease in which Ozy did what he did to N.O. and the Comedian... If he really ramped it up, Bucky is ****ed, and that is the bottom line here. He's simply superior based on being better at every single damn thing related to combat. Simple Bucky's good, but he's not Ozy good. Cap showed that, and Ozy would to and by feats, easier.
I've answered your repeated questions, yet you refuse to back up your claims and counter my post. You said Cap has done better against similar foes. I proved that wrong with the above post. Until you can counter the points, I accept your concession
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So are you accepting my legolas challenge or not? I'm not what you're saying here. Are you saying you don't want to BZ me on this, but just want me to post feats in this thread? Is that what you're saying?Further, Acrobatics prove finesse when you're also doing things to put down your enemy while in the air. They don't need to just fly around all over. The skill I'm referring to, and what I thought was common sense.. things like acrobatics while fighting show a level of skill and finesse. It shows you can beat your foe without having to overpower them with your strength... i.e. grappling or simply punching people really damn hard. Elektra RELIES on her skill and finesse to beat people. She doesn't really as much on power, strength and durability as Cap. THAT is the point I'm making. Seeing as you having competed or trained in a combat sport in your life, I understand how you didn't pick up on the obvious. When I'm talking acrobatics and finesse, we're talking people who use skill more than power. Elektra uses skill more than power. Legolas uses skill more than power. Ozy uses both, but didn't display much acrobatic finesse while fighting. He undoubtedly could though. However, the others listed rely on their skill to win the day much more than Cap does. THAT is the point.
of course not, but he could do so, and easier. We see how high he can jump and with how much precision. We see how fast he is and how fast he can react. We see his skill of never having a blow landed on him by peak human skill level guys. Proving his skill. Yet you think with that speed and agility and a hyper genius... you think he have a hard time flipping in the air and kicking a few people? Is common sense your friend? Point is, Ozy showed his skill in other ways. It wasn't acrobatic h2h finesse, but turning your back.. casually doing things while seemingly not trying against high level dudes. Prove his skill. He's THAT good.
Well I'm definitely not willing to BZ you if you can't even post a simple video here. You'd probably take 30 pages before posting any shred of proof. If you're so confident that Legolas is more acrobatic than Cap then just post the video. I don't understand why you're making this so difficult.
I also noticed how you stopped using the word "acrobatic" (which is what you originally used) and started going with agility and finesse. Badpeddaling are you? Agility, finesse and acrobatics are not the same. A boxer is very agile, you don't see him doing flip kicks. An olympic fencer has finesse, you don't see them doing sommersaults.
Let's get back to Ozy though. Do you still consider him a martial arts expert or do you think he's just a brick? How bout Cap, do you consider him a martial arts expert or just a brick?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Well I'm definitely not willing to BZ you if you can't even post a simple video here. You'd probably take 30 pages before posting any shred of proof. If you're so confident that Legolas is more acrobatic than Cap then just post the video. I don't understand why you're making this so difficult.I also noticed how you stopped using the word "acrobatic" (which is what you originally used) and started going with agility and finesse. Badpeddaling are you? Agility, finesse and acrobatics are not the same. A boxer is very agile, you don't see him doing flip kicks. An olympic fencer has finesse, you don't see them doing sommersaults.
Let's get back to Ozy though. Do you still consider him a martial arts expert or do you think he's just a brick? How bout Cap, do you consider him a martial arts expert or just a brick?
Not answering any more questions until you address my post. I answer yours a few times, and you have yet to counter my post. I get it you can't, but just say so.
I'm not wasting my time in doing that so you can have more reading comprehension failures and not even address the argument at hand. When judges are involved, there is a conclusion... a vote. Your incompetence in deciphering arguments is actually held against you. Simple.
There is no single backpeddling going on here. Jesus. It's like I have to hold your hand through all these things. When in old style Kung-Fu movies to crouching tiger.. to Hero... to Daredevil... so Pai Mei... to a laundry list of movies. When we see people flying in the air, and pulling of crazy moves while in the air... We always and without question go.. Damn that Mother Fer is pretty damn badass. That is why directors showcase such scenes and include. Cause they know the audience will naturally go... damn look at that skill he displayed... he's badass. It almost always looks more impressive to see a guy flip around in the air while kicking the crap out of people.... OR causally dealing with people with their back turned... We see those things are immediately go damn that guy is skilled. Those things unquestionably appear to most people while viewing them as being more skilled, than somebody who stays on the ground a lot and just starts punching/Kicking people. It's crazy how I need to hold your hand through such basic concepts.
So again, is it not true that Elektra and Legolas rely on their skill more than their power? True or false?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Not answering any more questions until you address my post. I answer yours a few times, and you have yet to counter my post. I get it you can't, but just say so.I'm not wasting my time in doing that so you can have more reading comprehension failures and not even address the argument at hand. When judges are involved, there is a conclusion... a vote. Your incompetence in deciphering arguments is actually held against you. Simple.
There is no single backpeddling going on here. Jesus. It's like I have to hold your hand through all these things. When in old style Kung-Fu movies to crouching tiger.. to Hero... to Daredevil... so Pai Mei... to a laundry list of movies. When we see people flying in the air, and pulling of crazy moves while in the air... We always and without question go.. Damn that Mother Fer is pretty damn badass. That is why directors showcase such scenes and include. Cause they know the audience will naturally go... damn look at that skill he displayed... he's badass. It almost always looks more impressive to see a guy flip around in the air while kicking the crap out of people.... OR causally dealing with people with their back turned... We see those things are immediately go damn that guy is skilled. Those things unquestionably appear to most people while viewing them as being more skilled, than somebody who stays on the ground a lot and just starts punching/Kicking people. It's crazy how I need to hold your hand through such basic concepts.
So again, is it not true that Elektra and Legolas rely on their skill more than their power? True or false?
Yeah it's true Elektra and Legolas rely more on skill. I don't know what that has got to do with anything. I never said otherwise.
I don't even know what you're asking me to address. Maybe it's the fact that you write humongous paragraphs with so many questions. Which one in specific do you want me to address.
But wait, I want to get something straight. Are you saying that you're specifically refusing to post videos/screen feats to back up your argument?
You realize how bad that makes you look right?
Also, FACT: Ozy basically just stays and on the ground and punches and kicks people. Does that mean Cap is automatically more skilled?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
quote: (post)
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Incorrect, Ozy would deal with the elevator situation much better and with ease. It's as simple as that. That is just want he does to these level guys. He's much faster than Cap based on feats.. Clearly better and dealing with people attacking him from behind and still not being able to land. Legit peak human skill level guys. Not a hit. Being faster and that skilled means he's doing his monologue while laughing at them and destroying them. It's that simple. You know it I know it.You ask for feats that Ozy doesn't have, but guess what neither does Cap. Who's the best people Cap fought and won against name somebody stronger, faster and more powerful that Cap beat? Nobody. It's irrelevant to the point. Here's what is important here, the key fights against similar people and how they fared. Let's examine...
Elevator scene for Capf as an example. Ozy has dealt with multiple foes, better foes at the same time and literally laughed at them. His track record against multiple foes is stellar. Cap's on the other hand isn't as stellar. Fact. He's done good, but not as good, as Ozy has done against multiple better foes. Check Ozy
How about against Peak human level skill guys. Let's examine.
Cap has fought WS and Batroc. In both cases they were long drawn out fights. Prolonged fights even. In the situation of the WS, I'll cut him a little more slack. I'll concede he's more formidable than Batroc, and thus it should be harder.. but that hard? Let's go further
Now examine how Batroc did against Cap who was trying to put him down and apprehend him and.. and... had his shield. Still had multiple blows landed on him and it was a long drawn out fight. One could even say Batroc had the advantage early on. He had no shield, and was forcing the action and landing blows.
Then take how a non trying Ozy, non trying is the key here.. he then proceeds to kick the ever long crap out of N.O. and RO without getting one, not one hit landed on him. Are these guys subpar to batroc? No, on the contrary, each of them individually could keep up with batroc h2h and pull wins as well imo. Either. However, lets' say batroc is slightly better than both individually.. well, he's certainly not better than both of them combined. 2 guys as skilled as N.O. and RO. are without question more formindable than Batroc alone (with a shield). Lets' examine how he did... well he didn't have a single fing blow landed on him and look effortless in kicking the crap out of them. As if it was a walk in the park.
How about another peak human and superhuman in some areas Comedian... Did he do worse, did he struggle? Not in any way. He still looked casual in every single thing he did. Casually moving so fast to be right next to Comedian before he coucl fire and react.. even being more than 15 away to start. Effortless. Then proceeds to kick the shit out of the comedian with utter ease. Not even getting hit flush and only got pushed back by a bull rush... then quickly dodged ducked and destroyed him. Efforlessly.
In contrast Cap did get serious, and I will not dispute he just said okay, let me go to this level, and that level dominated batroc. Problem is, Ozy didn't even go to that level. He never ramped it up. He did so effortlessly against more formidable foes.
I concede WS is better than Batroc, but again it was a struggle, and again it wasn't effortless. Again WS is not formindable alone in h2h combat than both RO or NO. or even the comedian. He's simply not. Again Cap struggles, he's trying, he's straining.. Ozy does struggle and he's not even trying. As I said Bucky is formindable, and Cap beat him. He gets loads of credit for it. However, the contrasts in the ease in which they won is the telling thing here.
So now where are we:
Against multiple trained foes - Ozy
Against peak human level foes - again OzyThose are what we can compare, not things neither has faced. All you need to do is use logic and common sense and you'll realize the ease in which Ozy did what he did to N.O. and the Comedian... If he really ramped it up, Bucky is ****ed, and that is the bottom line here. He's simply superior based on being better at every single damn thing related to combat. Simple Bucky's good, but he's not Ozy good. Cap showed that, and Ozy would to and by feats, easier.
[B]I've answered your repeated questions, yet you refuse to back up your claims and counter my post. You said Cap has done better against similar foes. I proved that wrong with the above post. Until you can counter the points, I accept your concession
[/B]
This post, counter the points. You claimed Cap has done better against comparable people. That is completing false as I've shown. Back up your claims and address the points. There aren't huge paragraphs, nor many questions at all. I summarizing the points in the thread and arguments. Simple
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah it's true Elektra and Legolas rely more on skill. I don't know what that has got to do with anything. I never said otherwise.I don't even know what you're asking me to address. Maybe it's the fact that you write humongous paragraphs with so many questions. Which one in specific do you want me to address.
But wait, I want to get something straight. Are you saying that you're specifically refusing to post videos/screen feats to back up your argument?
You realize how bad that makes you look right?
Also, FACT: Ozy basically just stays and on the ground and punches and kicks people. Does that mean Cap is automatically more skilled?
Again, not answering any question until you address the arguments in the post above. Further, and again, another reading failure. I'm not refusing to do so, nor does it make me look bad. I'm challenging to an even higher form of a debate, where judges are deciding. You claimed Cap has shown more skill and finesse than Legolas, I adamantly disagree with any assertion like that. Just as I disagree with any notion that Cap is more agile or does more badass moves (including acrobatic ones) as Legolas. I certainly disagree with that notion. If you think so, back it up.
As I stated, acrobatics and finesse are the areas of discussion here. I clearly stated and defined what I mean by acrobatics and what they imply to the viewing audience. I'm talking about skill and finesse in doing so. What the director is trying to convey when showing people flying in the air destroying people or causally owning people, even while on the ground, because their back is turned and barely trying. THOSE things are used to show more skill than somebody who just relies on fast punches and kicks.. with the occasional nice move. Elektra, Legolas, Daredevil etc etc... All rely on skill. So if you rely on skill and finesse more than power in your fights, it simply looks more badass and like your have more skill. Simple. If you disagree with said notion and my point, then back It up.