Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The way he is arguing, we should consider some guy who has trained in Capoeira for a few years, and learned to do a few fancy flips and kicks, a more skilled martial artist than a world Muay Thai champion, who would mostly resort to punches, kicks, knees, elbows and grappling i.e. less flashy techniques, in a fight.

Because apparently the flashier your moves are, the more "badass" you are.

And on a random note, as someone who has actually practiced Muay Thai for several years, I know that flying knee, as Cap executed it, is an extremely difficult move to pull off properly (especially as well as Cap executed it), which is a reason most professional fighters would not even attempt it in a fight. Too risky that it doesn't execute properly.

Are you knew to movies as well? Jesus, you claim like you've trained in Muay Thai, and the way you're talking, forgive me if I don't believe that for one second.

The REASON the moves are perceived as taking more skill.. well besides the fact THAT IT DOES. It's much harder to fly in the air, flip around 4 times and kick one or two people while still in the air. To even compare that to a flying knee is laughable. The reason WHY these are perceived by pretty much every person in the known world with common sense and logic, is because they exhibit moves that no human can pull off. The moves we see Legolas doing, no human could do. THAT is why they are special. A flying knee, kicks, punches... buy a PPV of UFC... you'll see humans doing that all the time. That isn't special. The reason directors use such scenes of crazy flashy moves is because they know the audience will go WOW that guy must be super badass... he can do stuff no human would pull off.

I swear to God, it's like I'm talking to people who've never watched a movie or competed in a sport in their entire life.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kt will tuck tail and run after this very public humiliation.

Ahhh my fanboy. Says the guy who's so ugly he refuses to post his pic on here. The only time it was posted was against his wishes. I don't blame him.. it was embarrassing.

BTW, you're humiliated in every thread you post in. Literally. Every single person on here, thinks of you as a horrible debater. How does that make you feel Quan? Maybe if you wouldn't spend so much time trying to Skype with guys from an internet site you could improve your debating skills. Sadly that is more important. Should I post where you said that???? LMAO. I'll never forget when you wanted my AIM to chat with me long ago.. what a weirdo... Scary.

Can someone fill me in on the disagreement?

Yes Ozy is more acrobatic.

Anyone who disagrees has blinders on.

Nuff said

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Can someone fill me in on the disagreement?

Yes Ozy is more acrobatic.

Anyone who disagrees has blinders on.

Nuff said

Ozy is more acrobatic than Cap? That's what the current discussion is. And if you say Ozy is more acrobatic, would you mind saying why you think so?

The fight is between Ozy and WS. Ozy is more acrobatic then WS, this is without question.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Are you knew to movies as well? Jesus, you claim like you've trained in Muay Thai, and the way you're talking, forgive me if I don't believe that for one second.

The REASON the moves are perceived as taking more skill.. well besides the fact THAT IT DOES. It's much harder to fly in the air, flip around 4 times and kick one or two people while still in the air. To even compare that to a flying knee is laughable. The reason WHY these are perceived by pretty much every person in the known world with common sense and logic, is because they exhibit moves that no human can pull off. The moves we see Legolas doing, no human could do. THAT is why they are special. A flying knee, kicks, punches... buy a PPV of UFC... you'll see humans doing that all the time. That isn't special. The reason directors use such scenes of crazy flashy moves is because they know the audience will go WOW that guy must be super badass... he can do stuff no human would pull off.

I swear to God, it's like I'm talking to people who've never watched a movie or competed in a sport in their entire life.

You are free to believe what you want. Doesn't change the facts. Considering the nonsense claims you make about forgetting more about MMA, boxing etc. than people you have never actually met apparently know, and have no background info of, makes me take your own claims about the subject less than seriously.

And exactly where did I mention Legolas here? Oh right. Never. I pointed out that a flying knee is a difficult technique to execute properly, which is true. So as someone who knows this, I can tell that Cap needs a level of skill to pull it off as well as he does. Maybe you need to witness super flashy moves to be able to recognise skill, but not everyone else does.

And you bring up Legolas as though a regular human can just replicate all of Cap's feats of acrobatics.

Cap isn't even in this damn thread, JHC. Can't anyone keep it on topic?

Ozy can pull a win on WS, and I really don't think thats even a stretch to think so.

He was kicking people 30-40 feet in distance and high up in the air with ease.

And so fast he could catch a bullet.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
The fight is between Ozy and WS. Ozy is more acrobatic then WS, this is without question.

That fight is between Ozy and WS but the contention regarding acrobatics was between Ozy and Cap. No one ever claimed WS was more acrobatic than Ozy.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
See this is the thing, and why it's so irritating talking to you sometimes. It's like I have to hold your hand through basic concepts of movies and combat sports. It's like you've never watch either in your life.

Did you miss the ELABORATE Part said right after that. Do I need to define that for you? If I say he doesn't use his skill as much as the others named, and as an example I say he's not do acrobatic elaborate kicks most of the time. What the F do you think that means. That sounds like the definition of Daredevil and the message I was trying to convey. ELABROATE was the key word there. That is Cap, period end of story. It's easy to visualize when I say he's not some acrobat doing elaborate kicks in the air. He's not, You disagreed and thus the argument started. I made the claim that Legolas, Daredevil, Elektra, all rely on their skill more than Cap. THAT was the discussion. You disagreed. I challenged you to a BZ against Legolas. Then you turn around and go... Oh so you want to do a BZ about who's the better acrobat... even though I SPECIFICALLY USED WORDS RIGHT AFTER THAT LIKE KICK.. LIKE ELABORATE... and somehow you still think I'm saying who's the better gymnast LMAO

You didn't answer my question again...

Who would more people say is more skilled between

A. Hero, crouching tiger, DareDevil, Legolas type of moves were shown to a viewing audience

then

B. We're shown some of Cap's fighting scenes and the moves he's pulled off.

Do you honestly think anybody in the viewing audience wouldn't think the people I named were more skilled fighters. It's like you've never watched a Kung Fu movie in your life. Shit maybe even any action movie. A director has a character do all these flashy moves because he know that is the best way to showcase skill. You don't showcase skill by mostly punching people and kicking them. You are more able to show it with WOW FACTOR type moves. Do you disagree?

You think I'm irritating to talk to? Hah! You should try talking to yourself sometime.

Anyway, the other posters are right. We've sidetracked this thread for far too long. If you really want to know who has fancier moves between Daredevil, Hero, Elektra and Legolas then just go and make a new thread.

Cap has more showings then Ozy, in acrobatics so yes, he is more acrobatic, but its silly to derail this thread with people that arnt in the OP.

That said Ozy wins with minor difficulty.

Cap>Ozy>WS>Batroc>BW

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ozy is more acrobatic than Cap? That's what the current discussion is. And if you say Ozy is more acrobatic, would you mind saying why you think so?

Is that really the discussion. You're claiming I said he's more of an acrobat than Cap. By all means then, post the quote where I made that claim. That isn't the discussion .

Ok can people actually just make some Cap vs Legolas acrobatics thread or something? Everyone made their decisions on who wins like 10 pages ago already.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Is that really the discussion. You're claiming I said he's more of an acrobat than Cap. By all means then, post the quote where I made that claim. That isn't the discussion .

What was your claim?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Ok can people actually just make some Cap vs Legolas acrobatics thread or something? Everyone made their decisions on who wins like 10 pages ago already.

Unless something new comes up, I'm bowing out of this thread.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You are free to believe what you want. Doesn't change the facts. Considering the nonsense claims you make about forgetting more about MMA, boxing etc. than people you have never actually met apparently know, and have no background info of, makes me take your own claims about the subject less than seriously.

And exactly where did I mention Legolas here? Oh right. Never. I pointed out that a flying knee is a difficult technique to execute properly, which is true. So as someone who knows this, I can tell that Cap needs a level of skill to pull it off as well as he does. Maybe you need to witness super flashy moves to be able to recognise skill, but not everyone else does.

And you bring up Legolas as though a regular human can just replicate all of Cap's feats of acrobatics.

Answer this basic question:

Which would the viewing audience more likely think is more skilled

Somebody pulling off moves that no human can do. The moves Legolas does.. Daredevil does etc etc. The audience sees those types of moves

then they see

Cap punching and kick people fast and really hard, with some occasional bad ass flashy moves through in

Which one? Be honest?

Where did I say it takes no skill?? I never made any such claim. I know the exact skill it takes and it's not easy to pull off, especially in a fight situation. Difference is most every athletic human can pull that off... maybe not as fast or with as much accuracy, but they can do a fine enough job. They can't pull off the moves Legolas does in his movies. THAT is the difference. One is superhuman skill moves.. the other is well... most humans can do. Now I'm not claiming a human can fight as fight... hit as hard... have the reactions and agility Cap has. They don't. But we're talking about fighting here, and who's EXHIBITING more Skill in their melee combat. I listed people who do, he disagreed, I challenged him to a BZ against Legolas. Simple. That is why he's brought up because Froth claimed Cap shows just as much skill in his melee combat. I disagree.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
What was your claim?

I claimed that Legolas pulled off more flashy, acrobatic, elaborate moves in combat than Cap does. Froth disagreed and said Cap does more acrobatic and elaborate moves than Legolas. Hence the discussion. It's my contention that Legolas does, and thus exhibits more kill when doing so. If he's pulling off moves no human can replicate.. and then we have Cap punching dudes real hard, with the occasional flashy move.. Who's exhibiting more skill. To me that's clearly Legolas. Froth disagrees

Legolas was more acrobatic, he was balancing on thin surfaces while sword fighting more powerful foes then himself, jumping on dwarfs heads while in barrels in a raging river accurately shooting orcs, riding elephant trunks while shooting arrows and tons more, Yes Lego is more acrobatic. He is basically a circus warrior freak in acrobatics.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Unless something new comes up, I'm bowing out of this thread.

Does KT reaching new levels of stupidity count?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Answer this basic question:

Which would the viewing audience more likely think is more skilled

Somebody pulling off moves that no human can do. The moves Legolas does.. Daredevil does etc etc. The audience sees those types of moves

then they see

Cap punching and kick people fast and really hard, with some occasional bad ass flashy moves through in

Which one? Be honest?

Where did I say it takes no skill?? I never made any such claim. I know the exact skill it takes and it's not easy to pull off, especially in a fight situation. Difference is most every athletic human can pull that off... maybe not as fast or with as much accuracy, but they can do a fine enough job. They can't pull off the moves Legolas does in his movies. THAT is the difference. One is superhuman skill moves.. the other is well... most humans can do. Now I'm not claiming a human can fight as fight... hit as hard... have the reactions and agility Cap has. They don't. But we're talking about fighting here, and who's EXHIBITING more Skill in their melee combat. I listed people who do, he disagreed, I challenged him to a BZ against Legolas. Simple. That is why he's brought up because Froth claimed Cap shows just as much skill in his melee combat. I disagree.

That's up to every single viewer's own interpretation. As someone with martial arts experience, I personally don't need to see someone constantly doing flashy moves to in order to gauge their skill. In fact, if Cap suddenly started doing all kinds of elaborate crap in Civil War, when I know he doesn't need to, I'd personally consider it reckless showboating. Sure, for some people watching constant flashy/elaborate moves is how they judge skill. But to assume that everyone judges films that way is over-generalizing. That's the beauty of film. Not every single person is going to view things 100% the same way. Just look at all the disagreements in this thread alone. Or are you actually going to tell me that every single person views every film and feat in the exact same way?

And where did I say that you said it takes no skill. I said that I can tell he is skilled because he pulled off a move that requires skill to execute. Pure and simple. Why are you determined to read accusations in my posts when I am simply making statements? I am not accusing you of anything here. I am simply giving my take on the subject.

And I personally do not believe that any skilled human could replicate things like Cap's quinjet feat.

Yall are just trolling KT now, its not right. I dont even like Lego...but he has more acro then Cap.