Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by FrothByte
The funny thing with that video is, Elektra only does acrobatics twice. And only once does she use it within combat. All of her other hits are just straight to the point movements. Yet when she does it, you praise her skill. When Cap does it (like the clip against Winter Soldier), you call him a brick because you say he doesn't do it often... even though Cap seems to do it just as often (if not more so) as Elektra.

Biased much?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I think this is kind of what I'm talking about here. I don't really see Cap doing stuff like the below, at THAT skill level. He does do crazy stuff. The video post by TI for example. But even then, he wasn't killing multiple people while doing so. He just doesn't. Even in the famous huge mammoth scene, he's already killed 30 something by that point. These aren't even all the feats really, just some of his better ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io1L8IjuQ6w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0WDfNKX0Os&ebc=ANyPxKpF0NKsikjA6q6QFGWhd9acMbFtWVNXh5gtrRSsLq6Dw5jF1rswWvu09Ic0bU7lhRd0VBGtiimJNz22gh5mjxTpgbnzMA

Funny video above but it illustrates the main point. Even though the kill count is off lol. The key is the skill he exhibits. When I think of skill, it's a combo of not just flashy moves, but the precision and ease in which you do them. That is how I define skill, and to me the videos illustrate that Legolas is simply more skilled and pulls of wow maneuvers while killing putting people down more.

Keep backtracking and moving the goalposts, as maybe there is 1 person in this thread that doesn't realize what you're doing.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The funny thing with that video is, Elektra only does acrobatics twice. And only once does she use it within combat. All of her other hits are just straight to the point movements. Yet when she does it, you praise her skill. When Cap does it (like the clip against Winter Soldier), you call him a brick because you say he doesn't do it often... even though Cap seems to do it just as often (if not more so) as Elektra.

Biased much?

You're hilarious. I love how you're still talking about acrobatics LMAO. It's downright hilarious now, but exposes the fact that you get owned when you still to what I'm actually talking about. Even if you were confused at first, it has since been clarified over and over. Yet, you still go acrobatics LMAO. This is almost quan level debating now, and something I won't participate in further.

Anybody with half a brain who knows these people knows Elektra is just simply more skilled. That is what she has going for her. She wasn't gifted super serum as Cap was. She has to rely on her skill, speed, agility. She doesn't rely on her strength nor durability. She can't, they aren't Cap level. So when you see her beating people that would poop on Cap.. LOGIC, that thing you seem to forget sometimes, would dictate her skill was a main asset in the victory. Then again, you probably think Cap beats Kirigi huh? Seeing how you talk about Cap, seems very likely.

Even in the scene I referenced where she throws her kais.. She was right on top of him almost in a second. Likely compared over 20 feet.. than in an instant she back in position to throw them. Never seen Cap move that fast, that far. You didn't even hear her run or move.. just sswoosh... there.. swoosh back throwing. Bullet dodging scene while running on the ceiling. Never seen a reaction time from Cap on that level. Ever.

Do you read comics Froth? You know who Elektra is right? You know what her so good right? Do you think comics portray Cap as the most skilled? I could name numerous people more skilled. People get all butt hurt when you question his skill, it's like they think he's iron fist or something lol. It's sad. Cap in comics and just like movies, is a very skilled guy.. but he's still a skilled tank. When he fought really skilled guys he's OUTSKILLED. What saves him is his durability and stamina. Just look when he fought Batman, they fought pretty even, but Batman appeared more skilled. Yet he even says, the difference is Cap's strength, durability and the fact that he doesn't get tired.. ever. He wasn't outskilling Batman. Just like he wouldn't outskill Daredevil or Legolas or Elektra or Iron Fist or Ozy Or Batman or Pai Mei etc etc etc etc.. he's simply not. He might beeat some, but it won't be because he out skills them. His skill wil be a factor, just not the main one for him against that list.

Shit VD, who's a fair poster can clearly see she has an agilty edge and speed edge. That's what she does. Cap isn't outskill her or outspeeding her. He'll beat her thanks to what.. his damn durability, strength and stamina. He won't be dancing around her, out maneuvering her technically. Not going to happen. I swear it's like people don't want to see characters for what they are and what they've always been. Jesus

You want to talk comics, go to the comic forum. This is the movie forum, we use movie feats. Movie Elektra was skilled, no doubt, but not any more so than Cap. Their skill looks different and I certainly am not contesting that Elektra is skilled. What I'm contesting is your insistence on portraying Cap as a brick with minimal skill while praising Elektra and Ozy despite the fact that Cap displays just as much skill as they do, sometimes even more.

Good lord, has this conversation sunk down to movie Elektra versus Cap at this point? If that's the case, just like Ozy, Elektra would also lose.

Thanosi's being so dense at this point.

Kt had a huge meltdown. 😂

When does his battlezone begin ?

I'm calling he will back out. He's already made a fool of himself and I guarantee he won't see this through. He's all talk.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You want to talk comics, go to the comic forum. This is the movie forum, we use movie feats. Movie Elektra was skilled, no doubt, but not any more so than Cap. Their skill looks different and I certainly am not contesting that Elektra is skilled. What I'm contesting is your insistence on portraying Cap as a brick with minimal skill while praising Elektra and Ozy despite the fact that Cap displays just as much skill as they do, sometimes even more.

Looking forward to that BZ, Kuruptusi. 👆

Also just putting this out there for KT: Cap in the comics outfought Daredevil and nearly beat him up to death, and that was pure h2h. Cap is usually referred to as one of the best h2h combatants, even DD commented so.

Has Kt backed out yet ?

In one of his famous feats, comic Cap after being turned back into his pre-serum skinny form, he defeated three hulking-guys themselves roided upon the serum
The on another occasion, a heavyweight champion boxer was augmented to be physically stronger and more durable than cap. Cap took him on in a boxing match and knocked him the fk out without getting touched
IF you want comic cap flipping, he has jumped out of the SHIELD helicarrier in midair onto a plane below while blocking bullets from 360 degrees and hijacked the plane and flew off
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/70123/2312554-civilwarcomiccapridesonafigtherjet8.jpeg
And here is cap flipping all over the place along with hank mccoy aka beast of the x-men, another guy stronger and more durable than him, and getting the better of him
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6i_sOrRmFn0/UaA3w6lqSxI/AAAAAAAAA-I/AFG9Hxl_bPk/s1600/captain-america-vs-the-beast.JPG
Kurupt, cap has been around 60yrs+ and been lauded as one of the best martial artists on the planet. There may be people better than him, but the difference is not that much despite how much ever you want it to be
And you're right, as cap himself put it as shown below, all the skill in the world means nothing against serious superior stats, but cap has the skills to make even better use of it than others, as you can see him flipping around here as well:
http://i.imgur.com/iNPBSb8.png

Originally posted by quanchi112
Has Kt backed out yet ?

Backed out?? I didn't back away from nothing. He thought we were debating acrobatic. I made it clear what we were doing a BZ over and he said he wasn't interested. He thought I wanted to do a BZ on Acrobatics LOL. Only a moron like you and Grimes would somehow think I backed out LOL. If you guys are up for the challenge step right up girly girls

IOW, you backed down. Figures.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Backed out?? I didn't back away from nothing. He thought we were debating acrobatic. I made it clear what we were doing a BZ over and he said he wasn't interested. He thought I wanted to do a BZ on Acrobatics LOL. Only a moron like you and Grimes would somehow think I backed out LOL. If you guys are up for the challenge step right up girly girls

That's because acrobatics is what you originally were arguing about. Then when I finally agreed to BZ you changed it to acrobatics, agility, and all around combat skill.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're clown. Plain and simple. You back down from my challenge of a BZ, and then claim I don't want to post feats and videos. Talk about an absolute joke. The saying most appropriate here is, pot meet kettle.

I'm perfectly willing to post videos of Legolas being superior in skill/agility/Finesse in executing his moves. That is Legolas personified. I called you to a BZ to prove you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, to expose your bias, so we have judges to declare a winner, and so your failed misrepresentation of my arguments are held against you. That is why I don't want to waste my time posting stuff here.. just so you could turn around and misrepresent my argument, tuck tail and dodge questions and feats? Sorry but that is an exercise in futility with you. If you didn't do all of the above throughout the thread, I'd be more willing to just post scans. Seeing as you did the things I mentioned, I'd rather just directly challenge you with judges, and that way your tactics are held against you. Simple. Yet somehow I don't want to post feats LMAO. Hilarious. It's examples like this where you lose credibility in my book. If I'm opening challenging to a BZ where we have to post feats and videos, how on God's green earth can someone turn around and go... see... see... you won't post videos to back up your claim. That is exactly why it's a waste of time with you.

More lies... The post was DIRECLTY before you said fine, you'd take me up on it. I state CLEARLY what we're doing a battlezone over and never mentioned acrobatics. Nice try though Froth, continue to display the reading comprehension of Quan. I like you better, when you don't stoop that low.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
More lies... The post was DIRECLTY before you said fine, you'd take me up on it. I state CLEARLY what we're doing a battlezone over and never mentioned acrobatics. Nice try though Froth, continue to display the reading comprehension of Quan. I like you better, when you don't stoop that low.

Funny thing is, why would you want to battlezone skill, finesse and agility when it wasn't the argument we were having?

What you stated was that you believed Cap wasn't as skilled as Legolas because he didn't do as much acrobatics. That's what I argued with you about. It seems silly that you want to battlezone me in something I never contested you about. Why? Because you knew you had to change parameters if you ever had a chance of winning.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Funny thing is, why would you want to battlezone skill, finesse and agility when it wasn't the argument we were having?

What you stated was that you believed Cap wasn't as skilled as Legolas because he didn't do as much acrobatics. That's what I argued with you about. It seems silly that you want to battlezone me in something I never contested you about. Why? Because you knew you had to change parameters if you ever had a chance of winning.

Incorrect, stop being Quan. The argument has ALWAYS been skill in combat. The very argument started with skill. Then in one post, where I give an EXAMPLE of skill i.e. flying in the air doing acrobatics while doing elaborate kicks. I stated as an example of skill I.e. doing moves no human can do... requires more skill than doing a flying knee... anybody can do. Same with punching and kicking. Just because I didn''t give other examples of superhuman skill being exhibited, doesn't mean that was all I was talking about. As I've stated, I don't need to hold you hand through every single discussion. I already defined skill NUMEROUS times. The technical prowess in combat where you're relying on your skill not your strength to win fights. Doing superhuman moves in combat that no human could pull off. The ease in which you beat your foe can also show great skill. That is what I'm looking for and talking about when defining skill. How good your are at melee combat.. how well you use your speed and agility in combat. All these things show how skilled you are. I said these things over and over again.

What you need to do is stop lying, you claimed I change the parameters AFTER you accepted. I conclusively proved that false with the post I quoted BEFORE you accepted. I also made other posts besides that which I can quote further saying the same thing and what I mean by skill and what we would be discussing. The senior clownshoes comes back with... I accept your BZ about acrobatics LMAO. When I clearly was not just talking about that, and made that clear over and over. Just cause I need to hold your hand through discussions, doesn't mean you need to continue to lie about what was being discussed.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Incorrect, stop being Quan. The argument has ALWAYS been skill in combat. The very argument started with skill. Then in one post, where I give an EXAMPLE of skill i.e. flying in the air doing acrobatics while doing elaborate kicks. I stated as an example of skill I.e. doing moves no human can do... requires more skill than doing a flying knee... anybody can do. Same with punching and kicking. Just because I didn''t give other examples of superhuman skill being exhibited, doesn't mean that was all I was talking about. As I've stated, I don't need to hold you hand through every single discussion. I already defined skill NUMEROUS times. The technical prowess in combat where you're relying on your skill not your strength to win fights. Doing superhuman moves in combat that no human could pull off. The ease in which you beat your foe can also show great skill. That is what I'm looking for and talking about when defining skill. How good your are at melee combat.. how well you use your speed and agility in combat. All these things show how skilled you are. I said these things over and over again.

What you need to do is stop lying, you claimed I change the parameters AFTER you accepted. I conclusively proved that false with the post I quoted BEFORE you accepted. I also made other posts besides that which I can quote further saying the same thing and what I mean by skill and what we would be discussing. The senior clownshoes comes back with... I accept your BZ about acrobatics LMAO. When I clearly was not just talking about that, and made that clear over and over. Just cause I need to hold your hand through discussions, doesn't mean you need to continue to lie about what was being discussed.

You're correct, the argument was about skill. But the reason we got into Legolas and Elektra was because you claimed Cap wasn't as skilled as they were because he didn't do as much acrobatics. He doesn't do kicks while flipping - that's what you said. And that's the argument. In fact, you claimed Ozy was a martial arts expert and Cap was simply a brick. Till now you have yet to prove why you think this is so.

Why are you trying to engage me in an argument I never had issues with? If you want to argue about pure combat skills that's fine, make your own thread. But that's not what we were arguing about and stop pretending that it was. In fact, you won't see a single post from me saying that Cap is more skilled than Legolas or Elektra. He certainly could be, but not once did I mention that in this thread.