Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiYou made the challenge and then backed down. You're a *****.
Backed out?? I didn't back away from nothing. He thought we were debating acrobatic. I made it clear what we were doing a BZ over and he said he wasn't interested. He thought I wanted to do a BZ on Acrobatics LOL. Only a moron like you and Grimes would somehow think I backed out LOL. If you guys are up for the challenge step right up girly girls
Originally posted by FrothByteKt backed down from his own challenge. He's a joke. He will never do one. You can see how terrible of a debater he is. It would have been an easy win.
That's because acrobatics is what you originally were arguing about. Then when I finally agreed to BZ you changed it to acrobatics, agility, and all around combat skill.
Originally posted by FrothByte
You're correct, the argument was about skill. But the reason we got into Legolas and Elektra was because you claimed Cap wasn't as skilled as they were because he didn't do as much acrobatics. He doesn't do kicks while flipping - that's what you said. And that's the argument. In fact, you claimed Ozy was a martial arts expert and Cap was simply a brick. Till now you have yet to prove why you think this is so.Why are you trying to engage me in an argument I never had issues with? If you want to argue about pure combat skills that's fine, make your own thread. But that's not what we were arguing about and stop pretending that it was. In fact, you won't see a single post from me saying that Cap is more skilled than Legolas or Elektra. He certainly could be, but not once did I mention that in this thread.
So I need to continue to hold your hand then? Jesus, I thought you were old enough that I didn't need to. How many times do I need to say these for it to sink in. I was GIVING A EXAMPLE of Skill, not that this is how I define skill alone. Once you misunderstood, I immediately corrected the misunderstanding. So no, I accept no notion that you were unclear what were debating. I can accept the notion that you weren't interested in discussing that kind of topic of skill in a BZ. That's fine. However, stop trying to say you thought I was talking acrobatics still when you accepted, when I had already corrected that thought at least 5 times prior. Do you concede that I had made clear what I was talking about when I challenge you to a BZ. I don't care, what you misunderstood. Is it not true, that by the time I challenged you, and you accepted, I had made it clear what I was referring to? Simple question.
It's simple, and there is no getting around this fact. They rely and exhibit more skill in their fights than Cap. Simple. Legolas more so. BTW... you went on and on about posting videos and you would retort with Cap videos surpassing or equaling what I posted. I posted 2 Legolas videos and there was no response. So you concede legolas displays superior skill to put down foes?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So I need to continue to hold your hand then? Jesus, I thought you were old enough that I didn't need to. How many times do I need to say these for it to sink in. I was GIVING A EXAMPLE of Skill, not that this is how I define skill alone. Once you misunderstood, I immediately corrected the misunderstanding. So no, I accept no notion that you were unclear what were debating. I can accept the notion that you weren't interested in discussing that kind of topic of skill in a BZ. That's fine. However, stop trying to say you thought I was talking acrobatics still when you accepted, when I had already corrected that thought at least 5 times prior. Do you concede that I had made clear what I was talking about when I challenge you to a BZ. I don't care, what you misunderstood. Is it not true, that by the time I challenged you, and you accepted, I had made it clear what I was referring to? Simple question.It's simple, and there is no getting around this fact. They rely and exhibit more skill in their fights than Cap. Simple. Legolas more so. BTW... you went on and on about posting videos and you would retort with Cap videos surpassing or equaling what I posted. I posted 2 Legolas videos and there was no response. So you concede legolas displays superior skill to put down foes?
Ok fine. For the sake of ending this cycle of debate, let's say that you weren't pertaining to acrobatics as a show of skill and that I wasn't contesting Legolas's or Elektra's skill.
Now, do you consider Cap skilled? Why or why not? Do you consider Cap equally as skilled or more skilled than Ozy? Why or why not?
Originally posted by Mindset
I never thought I'd see the day KT would back down, but today is that day.
Didn't back down. Froth even knows he didn't back down. How can I back down when I further challenged Grimes and Quan to step up. Clearly indicating I didn't back down. Froth and I are finally close to being on the same page. Clearly we weren't prior it seems
Never thought I'd see the day when you're mimicking Quan, and using him as an example
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiKurupt "The Backdown Kid" Thanosi
Didn't back down. Froth even knows he didn't back down. How can I back down when I further challenged Grimes and Quan to step up. Clearly indicating I didn't back down. Froth and I are finally close to being on the same page. Clearly we weren't prior it seemsNever thought I'd see the day when you're mimicking Quan, and using him as an example
What a time to be alive.
Originally posted by FrothByteNotice how he can't answer your questions. That "Backdown Kid" at it again.
Ok fine. For the sake of ending this cycle of debate, let's say that you weren't pertaining to acrobatics as a show of skill and that I wasn't contesting Legolas's or Elektra's skill.Now, do you consider Cap skilled? Why or why not? Do you consider Cap equally as skilled or more skilled than Ozy? Why or why not?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok fine. For the sake of ending this cycle of debate, let's say that you weren't pertaining to acrobatics as a show of skill and that I wasn't contesting Legolas's or Elektra's skill.Now, do you consider Cap skilled? Why or why not? Do you consider Cap equally as skilled or more skilled than Ozy? Why or why not?
See, this is the thing. I never claimed Cap wasn't skilled, in fact, I've said the exact opposite on numerous. Just because you don't like the term a skilled tank, doesn't mean I don't think he's skilled. I actually think that is rather becoming imo. He's Obviously skilled in all forms of combat, especially military combat, but not limited to that. He's a very skilled guy. What I maintained, and stand by, is that he's not:
The most skilled guy around, and as an example, I believe Daredevil, Elektra and Legolas to be more skilled in combat. I believe they not only demonstrate it more, but rely on it more than Cap. You seem to agree Daredevil for sure, Legolas most likely, and Elektra you're unconvinced. Seems to be where that stands.
Now as far as your second question goes about Ozy compared to Cap... This is a bit tougher to answer. If we're just going on fancy and acrobatic moves to land strikes... Then we'd have to say Cap, because Ozy has dodging feats while jumping, and imo jumped higher/farther than I've seen Cap jump. However, he's never did fancy strikes while in the air or on the ground. They were very precise and economical. The reason I believe Ozy is likely more skilled (Close) is for these simple reasons:
1. While he's not doing fancy/skillful moves striking, he's instead using precise blows, while seemingly barely looking or trying. Like he's joking around sparring, only he's delivering blows hard enough to send people flying. This goes back to what I said in an early post. Sometimes it's the ease in which you do things that demonstrates even greater skill than fancy moves. When you make things look so easy, against skilled guys, while talking.. imo is about as skillful of a demonstration as you could do. Imagine some of the most skillful guys in the world. They are renowned for their skill. Then imagine a dude you've never seen fight comes all, and casually walks around talking and joking around, barely looking and blocks everything thrown and counters with precision and power. You'd be like holy shit, that was one skillful as demonstration. No fancy moves displayed, but there was no need, as VD correctly illustrated before.
2. Now, when you consider the above, and I see how Ozy acted in all of his fights, and how far he was shown jumping. How intelligent he is... I see him having no issue doing any fancy move Cap can do, and likely faster. You might say well how does intelligence factor into skill... well simple.. you can have al the talent, moves and athleticism in the world... but if you don't know how to apply said attributes... you're sorely behind. If Ozy or Cap face multiple foes or one... deducing their strength.. the surroundings, who to take out first, where to take the fight etc etc. Ozy is vastly smartly than Cap, he'll figure out those situations faster and quicker.. and thus be able to exhibit his skill more imo.
It's close, and different type of skillset. For example if I need someone to go in there and neutralize tanks or enemies or choppers or situations like that.. Cap I think would do better. If you place Ozy and Cap in the dojo.. and you have them go h2h... How do you see that fight going? Do you see Cap outskilling Ozy? I myself don't see that at all. I see Ozy outskilling Cap... as I've stated my concern is Cap's durability and Stamina, and to a degree his strength. That is why I think their one v one is a tough fight. That's not to say Cap doesn't have his moments and counters or lands blows on Ozy. He no doubt would at times. What I'm saying is, if you watch the fight, Ozy would for the most part be looking the more skilled, and because it's ozy, sometimes talking while do so. But again, do you think Cap outskills Ozy or outlasts Ozy?
Originally posted by FrothByte
When you say Legolas is more skilled, do you mean h2h skill? Because I don't recall him doing much h2h. Of course you can't say archery and swordsmanship either because Cap doesn't use a bow or sword.So by skilled are you simply referring to Legolas's balancing and nimble footedness?
Nope, I took the time to answer your questions and I deserve the same courtesy in return. Then after you do, I'll go ahead and answer your next question.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Nope, I took the time to answer your questions and I deserve the same courtesy in return. Then after you do, I'll go ahead and answer your next question.
I'm still trying to figure out how exactly you define skill. Because you think Legolas is more skilled than Cap... my question is in what way? H2H? Swordsmanship? Or are you going simply by how easily Legolas balances on weird foot settings?
As to your question, that's easy to answer. Yes, I believe Cap outskills Ozy. Why? Because Cap has proven capable of outfighting equally enhanced opponents. Ozy easily beat up his opposition because his stats were just higher than everyone else he fought. It's very easy to look skilled when you're fighting people slower and weaker than you. The true test of skill is fighting someone of equal stats to you (or even more) and actually doing well. Ozy has none of these. He also never had such a WOW feat (to put it in your words) as taking down a fighter Jet while on the ground.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm still trying to figure out how exactly you define skill. Because you think Legolas is more skilled than Cap... my question is in what way? H2H? Swordsmanship? Or are you going simply by how easily Legolas balances on weird foot settings?As to your question, that's easy to answer. Yes, I believe Cap outskills Ozy. Why? Because Cap has proven capable of outfighting equally enhanced opponents. Ozy easily beat up his opposition because his stats were just higher than everyone else he fought. It's very easy to look skilled when you're fighting people slower and weaker than you. The true test of skill is fighting someone of equal stats to you (or even more) and actually doing well. Ozy has none of these. He also never had such a WOW feat (to put it in your words) as taking down a fighter Jet while on the ground.
While it was a show of skill to take down the Jet, that also wasn't Melee combat against a foe either.
Next, that isn't a reason why he's not better than Cap, he simply looked more skilled than Cap. Your logic is very faulty in this area. Think about it, so if a prime Tyson beats Razor R., Bonecrusher Smith, Larry Holmes.. who are ALL well below him in skill and stats... that means he can't beat Tubbs? Just because you're ThAT much superior to your foe, doesn't mean somebody else would have a snowballs chance in hell of winning against them. One doesn't prove the other. Think about it, Cap would've had to dispose of them even easier than Ozy did to make your logical deduction true. Not only do we know he hasn't, but Ozy also hasn't fought WS, so that is another logical deduction that isn't sound. Put it this way... The ease in which Ozy beat them, is VASTLY superior to putting down enhanced guys but struggling to do so. I find the opposite conclusion to be true. If somebody can casually beat to superb MA guys, while talking... while laughing... and not have a blow landed on him... doesn't get a better display of skill showing than that. Cap had no such showing.
Put it this way, Cap relies on his durability and stamina in fights. That has zero to do with skill. He took shots from Batroc... WS... in long prolonged fights. If he didn't have his durability... he might've went down. He was having blows LANDED on him. Think about it, Ozy didn't have any blows landed on him, in long prolonged fights with multiple people. THAT is skill. Cap, can't say the same, he had multiple blows landed on him. As I stated, Batroc is not for formidable h2h alone than RO and N.O. are combined. no way, no how. Yet Cap was still having blows landed on him WITH his shield. THAT is the exact opposite of displaying skill on Ozy's level. If you had blows landed on you, and you require your durability to take them... well you're now relying on more things to carry you through the fight than skill. When you're Ozy and you don't have a blow landed on you... THAT is the definition of skill.
Originally posted by FrothByte👆
I'm still trying to figure out how exactly you define skill. Because you think Legolas is more skilled than Cap... my question is in what way? H2H? Swordsmanship? Or are you going simply by how easily Legolas balances on weird foot settings?As to your question, that's easy to answer. Yes, I believe Cap outskills Ozy. Why? Because Cap has proven capable of outfighting equally enhanced opponents. Ozy easily beat up his opposition because his stats were just higher than everyone else he fought. It's very easy to look skilled when you're fighting people slower and weaker than you. The true test of skill is fighting someone of equal stats to you (or even more) and actually doing well. Ozy has none of these. He also never had such a WOW feat (to put it in your words) as taking down a fighter Jet while on the ground.
Second Part of the question... as I've always stated... it's skill putting down your foe... When he's jumping on people's heads while killing people at the same time.. that takes incredible skill. We are not just talking h2h.. Legolas rarely goes h2h... However, he exhibits greater skill in combat than Cap. Just like Cap doesn't shot a gun often at all... but if he was shown shooting a gun like Deadpool did and skill people... well that would take incredible skill. Same with bullet dodging... the Elektra feat comes to mind.. It was in the middle of combat and she was fast enough and agile enough to avoid them. Again, great skill, that skill allowed her to continue the fight. Thus skill. It all mattes in a fight. So again, who's more skilled in taking out their foes in combat... Legolas or Cap?
Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiIf he doesn't have a blow landed that is the result his speed is on another level. Quicksilver isn't highly skilled he's just very fast. The fact you can't figure this out on your own is sad. He's spoonfed it to you and you still don't get it. You're an idiot. You don't even know what skill means.
While it was a show of skill to take down the Jet, that also wasn't Melee combat against a foe either.Next, that isn't a reason why he's not better than Cap, he simply looked more skilled than Cap. Your logic is very faulty in this area. Think about it, so if a prime Tyson beats Razor R., Bonecrusher Smith, Larry Holmes.. who are ALL well below him in skill and stats... that means he can't beat Tubbs? Just because you're ThAT much superior to your foe, doesn't mean somebody else would have a snowballs chance in hell of winning against them. One doesn't prove the other. Think about it, Cap would've had to dispose of them even easier than Ozy did to make your logical deduction true. Not only do we know he hasn't, but Ozy also hasn't fought WS, so that is another logical deduction that isn't sound. Put it this way... The ease in which Ozy beat them, is VASTLY superior to putting down enhanced guys but struggling to do so. I find the opposite conclusion to be true. If somebody can casually beat to superb MA guys, while talking... while laughing... and not have a blow landed on him... doesn't get a better display of skill showing than that. Cap had no such showing.
Put it this way, Cap relies on his durability and stamina in fights. That has zero to do with skill. He took shots from Batroc... WS... in long prolonged fights. If he didn't have his durability... he might've went down. He was having blows LANDED on him. Think about it, Ozy didn't have any blows landed on him, in long prolonged fights with multiple people. THAT is skill. Cap, can't say the same, he had multiple blows landed on him. As I stated, Batroc is not for formidable h2h alone than RO and N.O. are combined. no way, no how. Yet Cap was still having blows landed on him WITH his shield. THAT is the exact opposite of displaying skill on Ozy's level. If you had blows landed on you, and you require your durability to take them... well you're now relying on more things to carry you through the fight than skill. When you're Ozy and you don't have a blow landed on you... THAT is the definition of skill.