Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Second Part of the question... as I've always stated... it's skill putting down your foe... When he's jumping on people's heads while killing people at the same time.. that takes incredible skill. We are not just talking h2h.. Legolas rarely goes h2h... However, he exhibits greater skill in combat than Cap. Just like Cap doesn't shot a gun often at all... but if he was shown shooting a gun like Deadpool did and skill people... well that would take incredible skill. Same with bullet dodging... the Elektra feat comes to mind.. It was in the middle of combat and she was fast enough and agile enough to avoid them. Again, great skill, that skill allowed her to continue the fight. Thus skill. It all mattes in a fight. So again, who's more skilled in taking out their foes in combat... Legolas or Cap?

Both are equally skilled actually. They exhibit DIFFERENT skillsets. Legolas definitely has more agility and nimbleness feats. But Cap has way more straight up combat feats and he usually does it against more high-end opponents whereas Legolas does it against fodder.

Think of it this way, who exhibits more fighting skill: The Capoeira expert or the Muay Thai expert? The answer is whoever wins against opponents more. And I've already created a Cap vs. Legolas thread and most people here consider Cap the winner.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Both are equally skilled actually. They exhibit DIFFERENT skillsets. Legolas definitely has more agility and nimbleness feats. But Cap has way more straight up combat feats and he usually does it against more high-end opponents whereas Legolas does it against fodder.

Think of it this way, who exhibits more fighting skill: The Capoeira expert or the Muay Thai expert? The answer is whoever wins against opponents more. And I've already created a Cap vs. Legolas thread and most people here consider Cap the winner.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Both are equally skilled actually. They exhibit DIFFERENT skillsets. Legolas definitely has more agility and nimbleness feats. But Cap has way more straight up combat feats and he usually does it against more high-end opponents whereas Legolas does it against fodder.

Think of it this way, who exhibits more fighting skill: The Capoeira expert or the Muay Thai expert? The answer is whoever wins against opponents more. And I've already created a Cap vs. Legolas thread and most people here consider Cap the winner.

Incorrect, you used a faulty distinction and correlation there. Just because Cap wins, doesn't mean he's more skilled. Those aren't mutually inclusive things at all, and I'm seeing where you're drifting slightly astray from the topic of skill. End results aren't the only thing that matters... for example

If I'm in a fight and I'm blocking most of his blows, and countering nicely for most of the fight. Then, he decides to straight try and poke my eyes out... or he grabs a bottle on the ground. Let's say he ends up beating me because of both things... did he exhibit for skill? Absolutely not. He did no such thing. Same thing here, you're forgetting about Cap's durability and Stamina advantage as well as his strength advantage. People weren't voting for Cap because they thought he was more skilled, they are likely voting for him because of his strength and durability. Sure, Cap would also be using his strength to get the job done. However, what kept him in the fight was his durability. Examples being Batroc and WS... They both landed blows on him... sometimes with his shield. His durability kept him in the fight after those blows, not his skill. What if he had lesser durability? He might've been put down. You're making false distinctions here. Just because Cap might be Legolas one v one... doesn't mean he's more skilled. It could mean that, but that isn't a given.

Do you understand what I'm saying here?

Originally posted by quanchi112
If he doesn't have a blow landed that is the result his speed is on another level. Quicksilver isn't highly skilled he's just very fast. The fact you can't figure this out on your own is sad. He's spoonfed it to you and you still don't get it. You're an idiot. You don't even know what skill means.

You still haven't answered.. does it bother you that you routinely come to a site where you're made fun of for being stupid and a horrible debater? Does it bother you that you continue to come to a debating site and get laughed at?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Incorrect, you used a faulty distinction and correlation there. Just because Cap wins, doesn't mean he's more skilled. Those aren't mutually inclusive things at all, and I'm seeing where you're drifting slightly astray from the topic of skill. End results aren't the only thing that matters... for example

If I'm in a fight and I'm blocking most of his blows, and countering nicely for most of the fight. Then, he decides to straight try and poke my eyes out... or he grabs a bottle on the ground. Let's say he ends up beating me because of both things... did he exhibit for skill? Absolutely not. He did no such thing. Same thing here, you're forgetting about Cap's durability and Stamina advantage as well as his strength advantage. People weren't voting for Cap because they thought he was more skilled, they are likely voting for him because of his strength and durability. Sure, Cap would also be using his strength to get the job done. However, what kept him in the fight was his durability. Examples being Batroc and WS... They both landed blows on him... sometimes with his shield. His durability kept him in the fight after those blows, not his skill. What if he had lesser durability? He might've been put down. You're making false distinctions here. Just because Cap might be Legolas one v one... doesn't mean he's more skilled. It could mean that, but that isn't a given.

Do you understand what I'm saying here?

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that Cap isn't so skilled because without his enhanced strength anddurability then he wouldn't be capable of accomplishing the things he does?

Well if that's the path you want to take, then please remember that Legolas also has heightened stats and senses. He wouldn't be able to do all his fancy quickstepping if it wasn't for his enhanced Elven lightfootedness, agility and nimbleness. He wouldn't be as good an archer if he didn't have his enhanced Elven eyesight. In his h2h fight against Bolg, he also displayed enhanced strength.

So if you're going to try and gauge Cap's skill by imagining him without his enhanced strength and durability, then might as well gauge Legolas' skill by imagining him without his enhanced agility and dexterity.

Originally posted by FrothByte
So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that Cap isn't so skilled because without his enhanced strength anddurability then he wouldn't be capable of accomplishing the things he does?

Well if that's the path you want to take, then please remember that Legolas also has heightened stats and senses. He wouldn't be able to do all his fancy quickstepping if it wasn't for his enhanced Elven lightfootedness, agility and nimbleness. He wouldn't be as good an archer if he didn't have his enhanced Elven eyesight. In his h2h fight against Bolg, he also displayed enhanced strength.

So if you're going to try and gauge Cap's skill by imagining him without his enhanced strength and durability, then might as well gauge Legolas' skill by imagining him without his enhanced agility and dexterity.

No, because they aren't mutually inclusive variables again. Think about it... his nimbleness in combat is certainly skillful but he still requires the added skill of putting them down with arrows or a sword. Those are things that needed to be practiced on honed. He was just born with that level of marksmanship or agility. And he'd certainly need to practice both in unison. That isn't true of Cap. Thanks to the serum he's straight up that durable immediately... No training or additional skill required when you take punches to the face. You either can or can't. Period.

According to you, strength is again, static with Cap and he can't increase that at all (obviously I disagree), but we're going with your view. So again, we're left with Cap not needing to train or do anything to increase or practice his strength... he just has it. His strength alone requires zero skill... his durability requires zero skill.. it's just simply there. Legolas agility requires skill.. same with his nimbleness, again skillful. Strength and durability aren't skillful. Stop making false distinctions over and over Froth

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You still haven't answered.. does it bother you that you routinely come to a site where you're made fun of for being stupid and a horrible debater? Does it bother you that you continue to come to a debating site and get laughed at?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No, because they aren't mutually inclusive variables again. Think about it... his nimbleness in combat is certainly skillful but he still requires the added skill of putting them down with arrows or a sword. Those are things that needed to be practiced on honed. He was just born with that level of marksmanship or agility. And he'd certainly need to practice both in unison. That isn't true of Cap. Thanks to the serum he's straight up that durable immediately... No training or additional skill required when you take punches to the face. You either can or can't. Period.

According to you, strength is again, static with Cap and he can't increase that at all (obviously I disagree), but we're going with your view. So again, we're left with Cap not needing to train or do anything to increase or practice his strength... he just has it. His strength alone requires zero skill... his durability requires zero skill.. it's just simply there. Legolas agility requires skill.. same with his nimbleness, again skillful. Strength and durability aren't skillful. Stop making false distinctions over and over Froth

Hah! This is a ridiculous statement. You think Cap doesn't need skill to perform the fighting moves he does? You think that just because he's super strong and super durable then he automatically knows how to do spin kicks and flying knees?

You think Legolas can do half the skill he does if we removed his elven agility and dexterity? Don't kid yourself.

Both Cap and Legolas benefit from their enhanced stats. Both of them also have skill. You're applying a double standard here: Attributing most of Cap's accomplishments to his stats whereas you attribute most of Legolas's accomplishments to his skill. You're being unreasonably biased.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You still haven't answered.. does it bother you that you routinely come to a site where you're made fun of for being stupid and a horrible debater? Does it bother you that you continue to come to a debating site and get laughed at?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Hah! This is a ridiculous statement. You think Cap doesn't need skill to perform the fighting moves he does? You think that just because he's super strong and super durable then he automatically knows how to do spin kicks and flying knees?

You think Legolas can do half the skill he does if we removed his elven agility and dexterity? Don't kid yourself.

Both Cap and Legolas benefit from their enhanced stats. Both of them also have skill. You're applying a double standard here: Attributing most of Cap's accomplishments to his stats whereas you attribute most of Legolas's accomplishments to his skill. You're being unreasonably biased.

He won't ever grasp it. To say Cap doesn't display skill is one of the worst things I've ever read. He does not get Cap at all and confused him with the Hulk a True brick.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Hah! This is a ridiculous statement. You think Cap doesn't need skill to perform the fighting moves he does? You think that just because he's super strong and super durable then he automatically knows how to do spin kicks and flying knees?

You think Legolas can do half the skill he does if we removed his elven agility and dexterity? Don't kid yourself.

Both Cap and Legolas benefit from their enhanced stats. Both of them also have skill. You're applying a double standard here: Attributing most of Cap's accomplishments to his stats whereas you attribute most of Legolas's accomplishments to his skill. You're being unreasonably biased.

I never attributed anything to anything. Stop lying. Stop being quan and actually read what I said.

I'm saying this to be clear for the 10th time. Cap has skill... his skill helps him to victory. Even if he's able to tank blows, he still needs skill to overcome them. I have no issue with skill coming into play.

However YOU made a false distinction here... You tried to take away attributes THAT REQUIRE SKILL and PRACTICE to pull off. Agility and nimbleness REQUIRE SKILL... Cap's strength and durability REQUIRE no skill. They are either there or there are not. PERIOD. Jesus. Nobody thinks of Durability as a skill variable... nobody thinks of strength as a skill variable... nobody thinks of strength as skillful. You skill in conjunctions with those things... but they don't demonstrate skill ON THEIR OWN.

Again, agility IS considered a skill... Nimbleness is considered a skill. Not a skill, but it's skillful. Do you go.. who he expressed some skillful durability there.. or wow he exhibited skillful stamina there. Not so much. We do say, wow that was some skillful agility or nimbleness. I got to tell you Froth, you need to be more logical in your deductions and stop being so obtuse. I actually like discussing things with you at times. However, stuff like this, where I seemingly have to hold your hand through basic concepts is above you

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are the one being mocked and backed out of your own challenge. As I said quicksilver isn't highly skilled just very fast. Cap is extremely skilled as evidenced by the films. Hulk is a brick Cap is a highly skilled combatant. You're an utter disgrace and known as the backdown kid.

Never backed down, so that is a blatant lie. Froth even concedes I didn't back down, neither of us did. Yet you're claiming I DID LOL. Sure buddy. Even then, how does it feel losing every single battlezone you've ever done and being constantly laughed at... You still haven't answered. Why do you come back to a site where everybody makes fun of you and thinks you're one of the worst. Expand please

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Never backed down, so that is a blatant lie. Froth even concedes I didn't back down, neither of us did. Yet you're claiming I DID LOL. Sure buddy. Even then, how does it feel losing every single battlezone you've ever done and being constantly laughed at... You still haven't answered. Why do you come back to a site where everybody makes fun of you and thinks you're one of the worst. Expand please

Froth already said I didn't, and neither did he.. are you calling him a liar?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Agility and nimbleness REQUIRE SKILL...

See, this here is why I'm unable to take your arguments seriously. You're trying to establish that Legolas's agility and dexterity are pure skill, never considering that his Elven heritage automatically gives him increased agility and dexterity.

You're playing favorites, admit it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Froth already said I didn't, and neither did he.. are you calling him a liar?

Originally posted by FrothByte
See, this here is why I'm unable to take your arguments seriously. You're trying to establish that Legolas's agility and dexterity are pure skill, never considering that his Elven heritage automatically gives him increased agility and dexterity.

You're playing favorites, admit it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
See, this here is why I'm unable to take your arguments seriously. You're trying to establish that Legolas's agility and dexterity are pure skill, never considering that his Elven heritage automatically gives him increased agility and dexterity.

You're playing favorites, admit it.

My arguments seriously? LOL. That's rich coming from you. You just tried to make durability and strength something that exhibits skill. You tried to make the false distinction between Cap's durability and strength and Legolas Agility and nimbleness. For the 4th time they aren't mutually inclusive. Jesus. Think about this:

Can we, and do we go, he exhibit great skill with his agility... nimbleness

or does it make more sense to go

He exhibit great skill with his durability... or he exhibited great skill with his strength.

Of course not. One can show great skill in combat using their agility and nimbleness. We don't go, wow he showed great skill with his durability LOL. We're talking about skill here. Cap wins fights more than Legolas because of his strength and durability.. he doesn't exhibit more skill in combat in taking out foes than Legolas. It's really that simple.

And again, something you can't seem to wrap your head around. It's much more impressive and skillful to defeat skilled foes 2 v 1.. casually and while laughing and talking.. than it is to have blows landed on you with your shield against somebody not as formidable as them together. Just like it's more impressive to casually defeat who Ozy did, than go life and death with WS. Ozy simply demonstrated greater skill. It's that simple

Everyone mocks your inability to see the difference. The only deficiency here is you. Saying he displayed greater skill isn't proving it. You just continue to restate your case and try to shift the goalposts while posters continue to mock you.

WS caps this ****er.

So according to kt, an Olympic gymnast with a white belt more skilled than a professional boxer.