Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Incorrect... You flip-flopped and said Batroc was now better than them combined. YOU ADMITTED to changing your view. I required proof of said feats to support this. You came up with.. he did okay against Cap.. Nope NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Now support your "new" stance, and then I'll crush you EASILY than RO and N.O. have superhuman durability.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ever watched Agents of SHIELD? So far every SHIELD agent we've seen have been capable of taking out fodder as easily as Night Owl and Roscharch. Cap took out a full elevator of them.

So fighting multiple opponents? Cap has the edge. After all, Ozy only fought 2 opponents at a time. Cap fought more.

Fighting peak level (non-fodder) opponents? Yes, I give you this one. Ozy defeated 2 at the same time whereas Cap only fought one on one (that I recall). But that is negated by the last point which is:

Fighting superhuman opponents: Cap has defeated Red Skull and Winter Soldier, even went up against Loki and Ultron and managed to not get outrightly killed.

Now I've answered your question, hope you're happy. Can you now post a video showing Legolas and Elektra doing more acrobatics than Cap? Or are you finally going to admit that acrobatics is not a good way to judge someone's fighting skill?

Froth this is the LAST time I'm going to expose your own bullshit. Be a man and admit when you're wrong and you're changing your stance.

THEN, I call you out on your changing your view and you say this: It's your claim NOW. Jesus.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yup. That's my claim now. Also, I'll post a vid of Batroc beating up fodder as soon as you post a vid of either Comedian, NO or Rosch doing well against a superhuman.

Then here you admit to your "new" stance which DIRECTLY contradicts your earlier stance. Which was Batroc is peak human in skill... and you considered RO and N.O. peak human in skill. You admitted Ozy did better against Peak human guys... but still thought Cap did better against multiple foes.. and against superhumans. This is the last time I'm going to quote you directly changing your view and then you not being man enough to admit you changed your view... when you admitted to doing so. Respect is slowing diminishing here.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Froth this is the LAST time I'm going to expose your own bullshit. Be a man and admit when you're wrong and you're changing your stance.

THEN, I call you out on your changing your view and you say this: It's your claim NOW. Jesus.

Then here you admit to your "new" stance which DIRECTLY contradicts your earlier stance. Which was Batroc is peak human in skill... and you considered RO and N.O. peak human in skill. You admitted Ozy did better against Peak human guys... but still thought Cap did better against multiple foes.. and against superhumans. This is the last time I'm going to quote you directly changing your view and then you not being man enough to admit you changed your view... when you admitted to doing so. Respect is slowing diminishing here.

Awesome! You actually went ahead and posted a quote of something. And yes, after all these debating back and forth and rewatching the fight scenes I've changed my mind and concluded that Batroc is actually more of a challenge than N.O. and Rosch put together.

Do I admit I was wrong? Sure. I was wrong in thinking that N.O and Rosch pose a bigger challenge than Batroc, or at least the way N.O and Rosch fought Ozy. Because the two of them didn't come at Ozy at the same time all the time.

Do you have a problem with me changing my stance? I hope not, because you've changed your mind here more times than 30 women in a shoe store have changed their minds.

P.S. - my respect for you has long been gone after all your wiggling through arguments and not posting proof required.

Now I answered your query: Go ahead and prove that N.O. and Rosch have superhuman durability.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I hope not, because you've changed your mind here more times than 30 women in a shoe store have changed their minds.

P.S. - my respect for you has long been gone after all your wiggling through arguments and not posting proof required.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You said N.O and Rosch have superhuman durability. How exactly did you get to that conclusion?

Maybe it was when Rorschach got beat up by those cops. We all know how skilled and super the cops are.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Awesome! You actually went ahead and posted a quote of something. And yes, after all these debating back and forth and rewatching the fight scenes I've changed my mind and concluded that Batroc is actually more of a challenge than N.O. and Rosch put together.

Do I admit I was wrong? Sure. I was wrong in thinking that N.O and Rosch pose a bigger challenge than Batroc, or at least the way N.O and Rosch fought Ozy. Because the two of them didn't come at Ozy at the same time all the time.

Do you have a problem with me changing my stance? I hope not, because you've changed your mind here more times than 30 women in a shoe store have changed their minds.

P.S. - my respect for you has long been gone after all your wiggling through arguments and not posting proof required.

Now I answered your query: Go ahead and prove that N.O. and Rosch have superhuman durability.

Nice try. What you meant to say here is... I asked your question where I exposed my lies, bs, and flip flopping. That is what you meant to say right?

Just like how in the other thread... you tried to claim you called me out to a BZ first, which is another lie I exposed and you conceded I did indeed challenge you first. Then you avoided the thread again, when you tried to claim that BZ challenge didn't count because you weren't talking about that. Yet, in the same breathe YOUR challenge was valid? Even though I stated numerous times I wasn't just talking acrobatics... yet even after correcting your comprehension failure over 5 times, you still challenged me to a BZ on Acrobatics.. yet that was a challenge I was talking about... and mine wasn't? Please... more bullshit.

So I guess I'm going to have to hold your hand through this topic as well huh Froth? Superhuman implies, above what any human could do or take. Let's examine...

RO flies about 15 feet face first into a TV... and not KO'd. Most humans would've been. It gets better.

Then he's kicked about 25 feet away... Not just kicked but he was sent flying THAT far by a kick to the head? Far far less concussive force to the head could kill any human. The power needed to send somebody flying that far, is well well beyond what any human or peak human could even do. The wasn't send flying... he also bounced off a pillar during flight. He wasn't killed or even KO'd... that is a superhuman durability showing

Then later, he's probably thrown at least 25 to 30 feet in the air off, again bouncing off a concrete pillar or maybe marble pillar. Again, a throw like that is a superhuman throw. Any human would've been KO'd or even killed by such a throw... and bouncing your head and body off an object like that. We've seen much less kill humans... we've seen less KO humans. Just watch any combat sport... street fight videos, and you'll see much less KO people. You'll see well trained athletes KO'd by much less. Yet RO wasn't.

Nite-Owl was also taking blows from Ozy and not KO'd. He got his head slammed on the edge of a step from Ozy and wasn't KO'd. Most human would've likely been killed by a slam like that. Somebody that can casually toss the comedian without any leverage 12 feet or so.. Somebody who slammed comedian so hard against a marble/granite counter.. which barely any space or momentum to add force... he took out a huge chunk of the counter. Somebody strong enough to casually pick up Comedian and easily throw him through reinforced glass... We know how strong Ozy is... so when he picks up Nite-Owl and slams his head on the step... yes... any human would've likely died or been KO'd.

As examples, look at Cap in the elevator scene... he basically landed one blow and each dude was taken out, even shield agents. Here, another dude with superhuman striking power and strength... was throwing dudes off of pillars and slamming their heads against marble steps... kicking dudes 20 feet away and like 10 feet in the air. Beyond what any human could deliver... yet RO, still got up and kept on fighting.

Yes, that is superhuman durability. Well above any Batroc displayed. Who you've admitted has human level durability. Clearly RO and NO are well beyond that. Which is exactly as I stated.

KT get a hold of yourself. You're all over the place. Are you telling me that you're allowed to change your mind and clarify your stance but no one else is?

Besides if that's how you determine who's superhuman in durability then I guess BW also has superhuman durability. Even Batroc who's taken a hit from Cap and not gotten KO'd immediately would then be superhuman. Heck every single action hero would be superhuman.

Besides, since Cap is stronger than Ozy then it makes sense that Cap also hits harder than Ozy. So Cap one-shotting opponents doesn't mean that Ozy can do the same thing.

Considering Cap > Ozy, what exactly is your point?

Originally posted by FrothByte
KT get a hold of yourself. You're all over the place. Are you telling me that you're allowed to change your mind and clarify your stance but no one else is?

Besides if that's how you determine who's superhuman in durability then I guess BW also has superhuman durability. Even Batroc who's taken a hit from Cap and not gotten KO'd immediately would then be superhuman. Heck every single action hero would be superhuman.

Besides, since Cap is stronger than Ozy then it makes sense that Cap also hits harder than Ozy. So Cap one-shotting opponents doesn't mean that Ozy can do the same thing.

Difference is I NEVER conceded a point, and then flip flopped days later. I never said you can't change your view. However, you conceding a point, and then we move on and argue on the basis of said point. That IMPLIES you actually did the due diligence required i.e. viewing the scenes in question and came to a judgment. That is what did happen as you've seen all available footage. Yet, you turn around days later, and because you're losing the argument because of your concession.. you go... yeah... I changed my mind now. That I have never done.

Nor have I tried to summarize our discussions in the piss poor manner you did in the other thread. Are you going to admit that your challenge was bs by your own standards of what a BS challenge is? You know it was, yet you make no mention of that and distort the facts like YOU challenged me first... when you did no such thing and you admitted as such. It's like daily I need to correct your lies. What's worse, you even know what you did, and yet still make me quote you.. you're not man enough to just go yeah.. I was wrong.. I did change my mind... Nooooo I need to quote you doing it. Please

BS again, which hits has BW taken that are the level specified by RO and N.O. I've never seen her take such blows, and in succession and still keep on fighting. Post the clips.

No, Batroc doesn't have that level of durability because YOU claimed it was human level. It was, we've seen people execute kicks just as Cap did.... sometimes they are KO'd.. sometimes dazed... He was Dazed and on the ground. What we DON'T see any human doing is throwing people 25 feet against concrete pillars, in fact we never see that. Even you want to claim that Cap is stronger.. cool.. He NEVER sent Batroc flying that far with a throw... or a direct kick to the face...or getting his head slammed into a concrete step. I you have video of Batroc taking such blows... post them. In order for your theory of Cap being stronger to be true... We'd see Cap sending Batroc flying like Ozy did... He doesn't do so... Shit, he never send WS flying with any punch or kick or throw. So no, he has nothing to say he strikes harder than Ozy, or throws farther than Ozy.

Again, even if you believe he still is stronger, just doesn't punch as hard as he could.. thus doesn't send guys flying like Ozy did... I could possibly believe that, but then we're still left with Cap doesn't put all his strength into his punches or kicks... Thus Batroc unquestionably wasn't hit with as much force as N.O. and RO were... yet was still easily KO'd.

No matter how you view it... either cap doesn't strike as hard as Ozy or he can strike as hard or harder... he just doesn't. In either case, that fails to prove your point.

Further, that IS the definition of superhuman. So I was spot on with what I said. No human could survive those blows and not be KO'd or killed.. let alone get up and keep fighting. That is superhuman durability. Period. Batroc displayed no such thing.

Thor and Iron-man have hit people without sending them flying, are you claiming that they was using below Ozy level strength at the time?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
BS again, which hits has BW taken that are the level specified by RO and N.O. I've never seen her take such blows, and in succession and still keep on fighting. Post the clips.

No, Batroc doesn't have that level of durability because YOU claimed it was human level.

I'm going to cut through all your personal arguments and get back on topic, otherwise we'll never finish this discussion.

BW got sideswiped by Hulk.

Yes, I claimed Batroc has human level durability. I also claim that N.O. and Rosch have human level durability. I also claim that BW has human level durability. But if you're going to assume that NO and Rosch have superhuman durability just because they didn't get KO'd when getting hit by a superhuman, then Batroc and BW must be superhuman as well.

You can't keep assigning double standards.

Anyway. WS > Ozy. Why? Because WS actually fought and did well against a combatant that was way better than any opposition Ozy has faced. WS wins.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm going to cut through all your personal arguments and get back on topic, otherwise we'll never finish this discussion.

BW got sideswiped by Hulk.

Yes, I claimed Batroc has human level durability. I also claim that N.O. and Rosch have human level durability. I also claim that BW has human level durability. But if you're going to assume that NO and Rosch have superhuman durability just because they didn't get KO'd when getting hit by a superhuman, then Batroc and BW must be superhuman as well.

You can't keep assigning double standards.

Anyway. WS > Ozy. Why? Because WS actually fought and did well against a combatant that was way better than any opposition Ozy has faced. WS wins.

So? People get sideswiped all the time by cars and are just fine.. shit some even get up and walk away. Some don't, but some do. I've never, in my life, seen anybody take a full soccer kick to the head.. that is so strong it can send them 10 feet in the air and 20 feet across a room.. while having your head/body strike a pillar during flight. Never seen that, but I can safely say... anybody kicked in the head with that kind of force would likely be killed or in a coma... but at a minimum KO'd. Yet, RO wasn't.

You have ZERO proof to support your claims AGAIN. You claim Cap strikes harder.. PROVE IT. I have clips of Ozy kicking people farther than Cap did. I have clips of him throwing people as far as Cap ever has. You can't just claim something without proof. Show me Cap kicking somebody or punching somebody as far and with the force Ozy did. If you can't, then you can't claim he hits harder.

As I stated, even if we assume Cap could hit harder, because he stronger... he clearly doesn't. Which again, is ALL that matters. He doesn't. So the blows landed on batroc weren't on the level of Ozy's and what he delivered to RO and NO Period. You can't win this argument. We have proof that no blow landed on Batroc was at the level of what Ozy delivered, and that is the bottom line. Not just one, but Ozy delivered various types of blows or throws beyond what Cap ever did to Batroc. yet Batroc went down and RO and NO didn't. Case closed.

I don't care what you want to call NO and RO durability, but what we can say, is that it's above Batroc's correct?

So you're going to stick with your claim that Ozy strikes harder than Thor or Iron-man?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You can't just claim something without proof.

ROTFL!!! Do you honestly not see the irony of you stating this? I'm done debating with you KT. You make completely baseless claims, fail to provide proof for them (which several people have called you out on already) and yet are quick to ask for proof when someone goes up against you.

There's no way this debate is ever going to end with that kind of attitude. So I'm stopping now before we reach 300 pages.

BTW, Ozy has never punched through a submarine window. Chew on that.

Originally posted by FrothByte
ROTFL!!! Do you honestly not see the irony of you stating this? I'm done debating with you KT. You make completely baseless claims, fail to provide proof for them (which several people have called you out on already) and yet are quick to ask for proof when someone goes up against you.

There's no way this debate is ever going to end with that kind of attitude. So I'm stopping now before we reach 300 pages.

Do you like his latest claim, that Ozy strikes harder than Thor and Iron-man?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Do you like his latest claim, that Ozy strikes harder than Thor and Iron-man?

Well I noticed that he hasn't even tried to address it. Typical really.

Originally posted by FrothByte
ROTFL!!! Do you honestly not see the irony of you stating this? I'm done debating with you KT. You make completely baseless claims, fail to provide proof for them (which several people have called you out on already) and yet are quick to ask for proof when someone goes up against you.

There's no way this debate is ever going to end with that kind of attitude. So I'm stopping now before we reach 300 pages.

BTW, Ozy has never punched through a submarine window. Chew on that.

Cap has never sent people flying as far as Ozy has, and never peak human skill level guys either. He didn't send Batroc flying the way Ozy did... nor did he send WS flying the way Ozy did. I CITED the proof your moron. I SAID VERY SPECIFIC INCIDENTS AND TALKED ABOUT EACH ONE IN DETAIL. That is THE definition of providing proof you buffoon. Then when I ask you to do the same... you go... Oh I'm done debating because you post no proof... Jesus you're dumb. It's cool with me man, at least this way you won't get tooled in every discussion we have... no will you be called out on your lies and bs as I've done the last two days... nor will you have to concede to points where you were made a liar.... nor will you ask me for quotes of which you already know exist. Yup, I'm truly going to miss that.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well I noticed that he hasn't even tried to address it. Typical really.

I have Silent on Ignore just as I said I would. He's a useless troll, many have said the same thing. He's been on ignore for months now. I had no idea what he said till you quoted him. Now quote me where I said Ozy strikes harder than Thor or IM.. Quote me you buffoon.

This has gone far enough.

I have yet to see what puts Ozy in Cap's Level . Beating up some skilled humans doesnt cut it.

Here are a few feats for Bucky that Trump what Ozy can do. (Thanks to HulkisHulk for these gifs)

Here is Bucky kicking someone farther than Ozy did. The guy would have flown even farther if the Jet engine didn't swallow the guy up.

More punching people away several feat

Throws Sitwell with one arm arcoss to the other side of the freeway.

Ozy best feats are his reaction time. Bucky has similar reaction time. Here Bucky reacts fast enough to being shot by blocking the bullets. Fast enough to move out the way.

(cont.)

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

(part.2)

Random Strength & Skill feats.

More skill and faster fighting than what Ozy displayed

More reaction time and also jumps off the side of a multi story building

Now how does Ozy compare again to Bucky? (Lets not even get into Cap)
I dont see how Ozys feats compare to give him the win.
I dont see how beating up 2 skilled humans that their best feat was beating up prisoners amounts to Ozy being better than Bucky.

I want to see Movie feats that counter the feats in this post please.

Personal opinions on how "you" think things should be or real world stuff doesn't fly here.

Again back up opinion with "on screen feats". Or else counter arguments are invalid.