Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Cap has never sent people flying as far as Ozy has, and never peak human skill level guys either. He didn't send Batroc flying the way Ozy did... nor did he send WS flying the way Ozy did. I CITED the proof your moron. I SAID VERY SPECIFIC INCIDENTS AND TALKED ABOUT EACH ONE IN DETAIL. That is THE definition of providing proof you buffoon. Then when I ask you to do the same... you go... Oh I'm done debating because you post no proof... Jesus you're dumb. It's cool with me man, at least this way you won't get tooled in every discussion we have... no will you be called out on your lies and bs as I've done the last two days... nor will you have to concede to points where you were made a liar.... nor will you ask me for quotes of which you already know exist. Yup, I'm truly going to miss that.

Thor and Iron-man have hit people without sending them flying, are you claiming that they were using below Ozy level strength at the time?

Originally posted by Inhuman
(part.2)

Random Strength & Skill feats.

More skill and faster fighting than what Ozy displayed

More reaction time and also jumps off the side of a multi story building

Now how does Ozy compare again to Bucky? (Lets not even get into Cap)
I dont see how Ozys feats compare to give him the win.
I dont see how beating up 2 skilled humans that their best feat was beating up prisoners amounts to Ozy being better than Bucky.

I want to see Movie feats that counter the feats in this post please.

Personal opinions on how "you" think things should be or real world stuff doesn't fly here.

Again back up opinion with "on screen feats". Or else counter arguments are invalid.

First of all, NONE of the feats you described as "reaction time" feats even come close to Ozy's. Ozy's bullet catch literally poops on anything you've just shown in your clips. So I've already surpassed any clip you've shown for Bucky

I'm thinking you've never watched fights before like the UFC or even street fights. I can kick someone in the same position bucky did... standing.. and straight to the chest... and send him flying 10 feet. Granted, he won't fly in the air like that... but I could send him flying backwards. Now, imagine someone kicking somebody who's is already on the ground and on his hands. Now imagine sending THAT guy flying with a kick to THE HEAD... Not the body (where you should realize it's easier to send somebody flying because you're kicking a bigger section with more mass), just kicking the head.. you're aren't striking the majority mass of the person. You're kicking a very specific part of the body. It's MUCH easier to send someone flying kicking their Chest in the way Bucky did.. than kicking someone on the ground AND just their head. Do you disagree? Next, he didn't kick him further, your claim of he would've gone farther holds no weight. It didn't go farther, and it was easier.

Next, you show a bunch of clips of Bucky using his arm... umm yeah his bionic arm... That arm is stronger than Cap as well, so you're not doing yourself any favors by posting that. What's more though, that is just ONE extremity that is likely stronger than Ozy. His others are not. He's not bionic all over, so him having one extremity stronger than Ozy, doesn't exclude his other parts which clearly not.

I showed Ozy throwing a guy FURTHER and with more power than ANY clip you just showed. With a bionic arm or not. The only thing you showed really was him throwing an unsuspecting oldish human guy... Not impressive. Ozy threw skilled combatants further. Much more impressive. Let's examine further:

Reaction - Ozy

Speed - Ozy (again he was never even touched by peak human skill level guys) not a blow landed on him. Like reactions... if you can move your arm (when it's by your side) all the way up to catch a bullet AFTER it was fired. You can punch vastly than Bucky. Simple physics and logical deduction.

Jumping - Again Ozy ... here's the feat to back it up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnGA8uu8T0

Move to part :33 of the video. Notice how at that instant N.O. looks up and sees Ozy likely over 20 feet away.. he appears as if he's standing in place.. he's not getting a running start by any means. Yet, look how far he jumps. Over 20 feet across and likely about 20 feet in the air. From seemingly a standing position. That is a far better jumping feat than anything I've seen from Bucky. If you have better post it.

Kicking - I address this above, Ozy's feat was more impressive

Throwing - Again Ozy's feat of throwing RO over 20 feet.. 10 feet of which was AFTER RO bounced off a pillar. To throw somebody so hard... that they still fly an additional 10 feet after striking a pillar would require A LOT of force. Bucky has no feat that can compare. Look at the Comedian fight... Look at his position when he picks up Comedian just by simple reaching down... not using his legs or back.. he seemingly just casually picks him up and throws him UNDERHANDED. In your house, casually try and lean or and pick something up using just your arms. Now, imagine that being somebody like Comedian and casually throwing him 10 feet. Also, picking up a skilled combatant like Comedian and tossing him throw bullet proof class, again poops on any Bucky tossing feat. if not post one.

Strength - Tough call... Ozy kicked people further... jumps further... better reactions and speed... I'll concede that Bucky's one arm is probably stronger.. after it was stronger than Cap. Problem is, it's just one arm.. one out of 4. You don't just fight with one arm... nor is your strength measured by only one extremity. So even if I was generous and gave this to bucky, there is still context involved.

Don't get me wrong, Bucky is impressive. I actually liked him the best as far as Cap's foes. I believe he's formidable with his arm... speed... and military knowledge and tactics. The difference is simple for me... The logical line of progression HAS to be followed here. We can't just discount feats and what they mean. If Ozy can catch a bullet.. he's vastly faster than Bucky. He can react faster... move his arms faster.. pretty much everything faster. Don't mistake him casually doing things for him going all out. If you saw what he could do to two peak human skill level guys... Can you imagine what a going all out Ozy would look like? Bucky would likely poop his pants. Which again, is the difference, bucky performed all his feats seemingly going all out all the time. Ozy did his, casually, doing a monologue, he seemed to barely even try. Shit, he gave N.O. his back and still blocked his shots while not looking. We never saw bucky do such a thing so Casually.

Strength again, logical line of progression. He already has solid strength feats of throwing people or punching kicking people far.. but again.. Casually. Do you honestly think he doesn't have another level? I'm serious do you?

Notice how kt is still refusing to back up his claim.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
First of all, NONE of the feats you described as "reaction time" feats even come close to Ozy's. Ozy's bullet catch literally poops on anything you've just shown in your clips. So I've already surpassed any clip you've shown for Bucky

I'm thinking you've never watched fights before like the UFC or even street fights. I can kick someone in the same position bucky did... standing.. and straight to the chest... and send him flying 10 feet. Granted, he won't fly in the air like that... but I could send him flying backwards. Now, imagine someone kicking somebody who's is already on the ground and on his hands. Now imagine sending THAT guy flying with a kick to THE HEAD... Not the body (where you should realize it's easier to send somebody flying because you're kicking a bigger section with more mass), just kicking the head.. you're aren't striking the majority mass of the person. You're kicking a very specific part of the body. It's MUCH easier to send someone flying kicking their Chest in the way Bucky did.. than kicking someone on the ground AND just their head. Do you disagree? Next, he didn't kick him further, your claim of he would've gone farther holds no weight. It didn't go farther, and it was easier.

Next, you show a bunch of clips of Bucky using his arm... umm yeah his bionic arm... That arm is stronger than Cap as well, so you're not doing yourself any favors by posting that. What's more though, that is just ONE extremity that is likely stronger than Ozy. His others are not. He's not bionic all over, so him having one extremity stronger than Ozy, doesn't exclude his other parts which clearly not.

I showed Ozy throwing a guy FURTHER and with more power than ANY clip you just showed. With a bionic arm or not. The only thing you showed really was him throwing an unsuspecting oldish human guy... Not impressive. Ozy threw skilled combatants further. Much more impressive. Let's examine further:

Reaction - Ozy

Speed - Ozy (again he was never even touched by peak human skill level guys) not a blow landed on him. Like reactions... if you can move your arm (when it's by your side) all the way up to catch a bullet AFTER it was fired. You can punch vastly than Bucky. Simple physics and logical deduction.

Jumping - Again Ozy ... here's the feat to back it up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnGA8uu8T0

Move to part :33 of the video. Notice how at that instant N.O. looks up and sees Ozy likely over 20 feet away.. he appears as if he's standing in place.. he's not getting a running start by any means. Yet, look how far he jumps. Over 20 feet across and likely about 20 feet in the air. From seemingly a standing position. That is a far better jumping feat than anything I've seen from Bucky. If you have better post it.

Kicking - I address this above, Ozy's feat was more impressive

Throwing - Again Ozy's feat of throwing RO over 20 feet.. 10 feet of which was AFTER RO bounced off a pillar. To throw somebody so hard... that they still fly an additional 10 feet after striking a pillar would require A LOT of force. Bucky has no feat that can compare. Look at the Comedian fight... Look at his position when he picks up Comedian just by simple reaching down... not using his legs or back.. he seemingly just casually picks him up and throws him UNDERHANDED. In your house, casually try and lean or and pick something up using just your arms. Now, imagine that being somebody like Comedian and casually throwing him 10 feet. Also, picking up a skilled combatant like Comedian and tossing him throw bullet proof class, again poops on any Bucky tossing feat. if not post one.

Strength - Tough call... Ozy kicked people further... jumps further... better reactions and speed... I'll concede that Bucky's one arm is probably stronger.. after it was stronger than Cap. Problem is, it's just one arm.. one out of 4. You don't just fight with one arm... nor is your strength measured by only one extremity. So even if I was generous and gave this to bucky, there is still context involved.

Don't get me wrong, Bucky is impressive. I actually liked him the best as far as Cap's foes. I believe he's formidable with his arm... speed... and military knowledge and tactics. The difference is simple for me... The logical line of progression HAS to be followed here. We can't just discount feats and what they mean. If Ozy can catch a bullet.. he's vastly faster than Bucky. He can react faster... move his arms faster.. pretty much everything faster. Don't mistake him casually doing things for him going all out. If you saw what he could do to two peak human skill level guys... Can you imagine what a going all out Ozy would look like? Bucky would likely poop his pants. Which again, is the difference, bucky performed all his feats seemingly going all out all the time. Ozy did his, casually, doing a monologue, he seemed to barely even try. Shit, he gave N.O. his back and still blocked his shots while not looking. We never saw bucky do such a thing so Casually.

Strength again, logical line of progression. He already has solid strength feats of throwing people or punching kicking people far.. but again.. Casually. Do you honestly think he doesn't have another level? I'm serious do you?

Ok well I guess I just wasted my time. 😬

I already told you about bringing in real world scenarios for movie vs fights. It doesn't fly.

And you are still going on about "imagine" this and "imagine" that. I dont have to imagine anything. We are basing these movie fights off of what we see in the films. Not our imagination for what we think these characters are capable of.

Ozy's bullet reaction was nice. I posted WS reaction to bullets are nice as well.
The difference is that WS actually used bullet time reaction feats in "ACTION" .
Not just used once like Ozy and then after he was on the ground for a few minutes.
Ozy wasn't using bullet reaction while fighting. All his movements were NOT bullet reaction movements. Just because you "THINK" or "IMAGINE" Ozy doing these things doesnt mean he can. We didnt see that in the film. That shit doesnt work that way.

The fact of the matter is that Ozy didnt look faster than WS in his fights that were portrayed in the film.
He didnt look more skilled.

The problem I see here is that you are basing your opinion on your imagination and what "real world" martial arts knowledge you think you know.
And trying to mix that into movie characters.
Also you are ignoring superior feats from Bucky that have been posted.

What makes your argument even more invalid is your classification for super human movie characters.
If I let that kind of thinking fly, then John Mcclaine, James Bond , and a shit ton of other movie characters are super human now.

Sorry but all that is dead fuqing wrong.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Ok well I guess I just wasted my time. 😬

I already told you about bringing in real world scenarios for movie vs fights. It doesn't fly.

And you are still going on about "imagine" this and "imagine" that. I dont have to imagine anything. We are basing these movie fights off of what we see in the films. Not our imagination for what we think these characters are capable of.

Ozy's bullet reaction was nice. I posted WS reaction to bullets are nice as well.
The difference is that WS actually used bullet time reaction feats in "ACTION" .
Not just used once like Ozy and then after he was on the ground for a few minutes.
Ozy wasn't using bullet reaction while fighting. All his movements were NOT bullet reaction movements. Just because you "THINK" or "IMAGINE" Ozy doing these things doesnt mean he can. We didnt see that in the film. That shit doesnt work that way.

The fact of the matter is that Ozy didnt look faster than WS in his fights that were portrayed in the film.
He didnt look more skilled.

The problem I see here is that you are basing your opinion on your imagination and what "real world" martial arts knowledge you think you know.
And trying to mix that into movie characters.
Also you are ignoring superior feats from Bucky that have been posted.

What makes your argument even more invalid is your classification for super human movie characters.
If I let that kind of thinking fly, then John Mcclaine, James Bond , and a shit ton of other movie characters are super human now.

Sorry but all that is dead fuqing wrong.

/THREAD

Originally posted by Inhuman
Ok well I guess I just wasted my time. 😬

I already told you about bringing in real world scenarios for movie vs fights. It doesn't fly.

And you are still going on about "imagine" this and "imagine" that. I dont have to imagine anything. We are basing these movie fights off of what we see in the films. Not our imagination for what we think these characters are capable of.

Ozy's bullet reaction was nice. I posted WS reaction to bullets are nice as well.
The difference is that WS actually used bullet time reaction feats in "ACTION" .
Not just used once like Ozy and then after he was on the ground for a few minutes.
Ozy wasn't using bullet reaction while fighting. All his movements were NOT bullet reaction movements. Just because you "THINK" or "IMAGINE" Ozy doing these things doesnt mean he can. We didnt see that in the film. That shit doesnt work that way.

The fact of the matter is that Ozy didnt look faster than WS in his fights that were portrayed in the film.
He didnt look more skilled.

The problem I see here is that you are basing your opinion on your imagination and what "real world" martial arts knowledge you think you know.
And trying to mix that into movie characters.
Also you are ignoring superior feats from Bucky that have been posted.

What makes your argument even more invalid is your classification for super human movie characters.
If I let that kind of thinking fly, then John Mcclaine, James Bond , and a shit ton of other movie characters are super human now.

Sorry but all that is dead fuqing wrong.

WUT the heck did you just say.. You literally said NOTHING of substance.. Let me get your views straight here, so I know if I'm talking to Froth or somebody with a logical bone in his body.

1. So if you can move your arm (while it's at your side) fast enough to catch a bullet after it's fired.. is it your claim that he can't punch that fast? You do realize arm movement and reaction is arm movement and reaction right? Or is it your claim that he can only move his arm that fast when catching bullets?

2. Are you disputing the fact that you can kick somebody further by kicking the chest the way Bucky did.. compared to the way Ozy did? Are you disputing this?

3. Real world is the BASIS for everything we know about what we see in the movies. You can't just discount them when it suits your needs and employ them 99% of the time. How would you even know a gun is a gun if it wasn't called a gun and we didn't see them in the real world? You wouldn't even call a kick a kick... an elevator an elevator. The real world is the basis for everything we see in the movie and use the English language to describe them. Yet, even though it's the basis for everything.. the damage of bullets.. the damage of strikes.. what happens when cars crash.. All that is real world... yet when someone kicks somebody in the head so far and with so much force that they fly and additional 10 feet after already flying 10 feet previously before striking the pillar. So when that gets brought up... oh no no no.. that real world fighting and physics you're trying to bring to the table... DUH.. Of course I am, that is the basis for 99% of everything in a movie. Yet somehow it doesn't apply here... Odd indeed

4. IS it your claim that Ozy wouldn't have another level? Are you saying that is the best and fastest he could fight.. or do you concede that as casually as he was doing things.. he likely has a whole other level... you just don't think we can factor that in to vs. fight. I'm okay with that, I can see the reasoning there.. I just can't ignore logical progression as easily as you can. It's fine.. but I'm curious if he think Ozy was going all out or if you concede he likely has an even higher level going all out?

Answer the above and then answer the following:

You claim to have posted superior feats, and that is an outright lie.. let's examine:

1. Reaction feat - Ozy's is superior.. if you're even contesting that... there's no hope for you.

2. Speed - Again Ozy, see above.

STOP CLAIMING YOU HAVE BETTER FEATS.. POST THEM

3. Jumping - you have yet to post a feat that matches mine.. or are you conceding this point?

4. Strength - I'll leave this be... If you want Bucky to be.. fine, but if he's not.... it wont' be all that much and it will be one arm worth of a strength advantage

5. Kicking - Address already. You have yet to post a feat matching what Ozy did to RO. The feat you did post, didn't match it.. it was good... comparable one could say... but it simply wasn't as good, and those are the facts. IF you have another, post it, if not again Ozy or comparable

6. Throwing - Again Ozy here, he threw a SKILLED combatant 10 feet in length and 8 feet in the air.. he bounced off a pillar and flew 10 more feet. This is what is annoying about discussing this with you. You keep claiming to have better... but you actually don't. In all the clips you posted NOTHING is better than that. Plus, when you add, AGAIN picking up a skilled foe casually and throwing him through glass. Did you even get what I was saying about him also picking up the comedian in the position he was in... do you know how hard that would be?

So as you can see, you haven't posted superior clips YET.. The only thing I could give you is strength and punching power (with one arm) Let's say that true, you'd still fall short in all the other areas.

Wall of text + no proof = You admitting that WS wins.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Ok well I guess I just wasted my time. 😬

I already told you about bringing in real world scenarios for movie vs fights. It doesn't fly.

And you are still going on about "imagine" this and "imagine" that. I dont have to imagine anything. We are basing these movie fights off of what we see in the films. Not our imagination for what we think these characters are capable of.

Ozy's bullet reaction was nice. I posted WS reaction to bullets are nice as well.
The difference is that WS actually used bullet time reaction feats in "ACTION" .
Not just used once like Ozy and then after he was on the ground for a few minutes.
Ozy wasn't using bullet reaction while fighting. All his movements were NOT bullet reaction movements. Just because you "THINK" or "IMAGINE" Ozy doing these things doesnt mean he can. We didnt see that in the film. That shit doesnt work that way.

The fact of the matter is that Ozy didnt look faster than WS in his fights that were portrayed in the film.
He didnt look more skilled.

The problem I see here is that you are basing your opinion on your imagination and what "real world" martial arts knowledge you think you know.
And trying to mix that into movie characters.
Also you are ignoring superior feats from Bucky that have been posted.

What makes your argument even more invalid is your classification for super human movie characters.
If I let that kind of thinking fly, then John Mcclaine, James Bond , and a shit ton of other movie characters are super human now.

Sorry but all that is dead fuqing wrong.

the way i look at it is winter soldier is definitely stronger than ozy.
ozy is clearly faster than bucky

and judging by the way ozy was toying with comedian, Rorschach, and nightowl.
i believe him to be the better fighter.
in the end i see bucky winning from the strength advantage

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
the way i look at it is winter soldier is definitely stronger than ozy.
ozy is clearly faster than bucky

and judging by the way ozy was toying with comedian, Rorschach, and nightowl.
i believe him to be the better fighter.
in the end i see bucky winning from the strength advantage

How is Ozy faster if he looked slower than bucky in all his fights?
The only instance is when he caught the bullet. Very impressive indeed but it was a 1 time thing. Then he was on the ground for a while. He never displayed that kind of speed in any of his fights.

People cant blow air from their mouths at 100 miles an hour at will. But on occasion when they sneeze, they do. Doesn't mean they are constantly breathing at 100 miles an hour.

Bucky on the other hand looked faster than Ozy in all his fights with Cap.
Ozy beating the people he did still doesnt equal fighting Legit super humans.

Im sure Bucky can beat the sh1t out of Black Widow, Hawkeye and Falcon with ease as well. And Widow is more impressive based on feats than any of the Watchmen Ozy beat.

Bucky ftw.

Great arguments from Inhuman. Every time I was gonna post something he comes post first with almost the exact logic I was gonna post anyway. Guess I'm not needed here.

👆

Originally posted by Inhuman
Here is Bucky kicking someone farther than Ozy did. The guy would have flown even farther if the Jet engine didn't swallow the guy up.

When I brought up that feat, he said this:

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I don't view that as 10 feet though, it could be, but it's hard to tell. I've already said, even if you want to count that, it still isn't on Ozy level. Period, end of story.

That's easily 10 feet. Maybe even 15-20... -_-

Originally posted by Nibedicus
That's easily 10 feet. Maybe even 15-20... -_-

Yes, and I think that most people viewing the feat objectively would agree.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
That's easily 10 feet. Maybe even 15-20... -_-

Yeah thats well beyond 10 feat

Originally posted by Inhuman
How is Ozy faster if he looked slower than bucky in all his fights?
The only instance is when he caught the bullet. Very impressive indeed but it was a 1 time thing. Then he was on the ground for a while. He never displayed that kind of speed in any of his fights.

People cant blow air from their mouths at 100 miles an hour at will. But on occasion when they sneeze, they do. Doesn't mean they are constantly breathing at 100 miles an hour.

Bucky on the other hand looked faster than Ozy in all his fights with Cap.
Ozy beating the people he did still doesnt equal fighting Legit super humans.

Im sure Bucky can beat the sh1t out of Black Widow, Hawkeye and Falcon with ease as well. And Widow is more impressive based on feats than any of the Watchmen Ozy beat.

I love how you can't answer such a basic question I keep asking. I know why, and it's very telling why you won't... I want to see you wiggle out of it again though...

Do you feel Ozy can only move his arm that fast when catching bullets?

I also find it comical you continue to act like Bucky has the superior feats... and you still can't match the feats I posted.

Jumping - You have yet to counter with something as good, let alone better

Throwing - Again, you have yet to post something as good or better than what I posted for Ozy.. in case you claim you forgot... Ozy throwing RO 10 feet into a pillar.... and then he goes an additional 10 more feet in the air. Casually picking up the Comedian and throwing him through Bullet Proof Glass.. Your feat of Bucky, grabbing a regular oldish dude who wasn't expecting it, isn't as good. Try again

Kicking - You have to match the feat of Ozy kicking RO.. AGAIN a trained human.. not some random carrier dude. Not only was it not as far, it wasn't as impressive. Again, he kicked his body, Ozy kicked his head, and he flew further.

As you can see, you have yet to match these feats, but keep pontificating like you have. BTW, I haven't include speed and reaction speed, which again is clearly and easily Ozy

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
When I brought up that feat, he said this:

That's great, but not as impressive as Ozy's kick. Anything else, or Ozy takes the kicking category.

Don't see what jumping feats has got to do with fighting.

Well, besides the fancy moves you can pull off with them that we routinely see defeat foes.. not much I guess :/ Point is, he said Bucky had superior feats.. and listed the areas.. I'm illustrating jumping isn't one of them