Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Doesn't work that way. You claimed more than once it was less than 10 feet. Fact.
Multiple people can clearly see that it is well over 10 feet. Fact.
You can actually visibly see the distance in an earlier, wider shot. Fact.
I.E. you were caught in a lie. Throwing down a wall of text does [B]nothing to change this.

Either you send someone flying or you don't and you used the word "flying" back.
Flight definition: noun
1.
the action or process of flying through the air.

Bucky actually sent someone fully airborne. Big difference to sending someone stumbling or rolling or tumbling. So people can't actually send guys flying in the manner Bucky did. Glad we got that settled. And you never mentioned tumbling or rolling when you talked about your own kicking in that post.

And lol at you accusing me ignoring bits of your posts, considering how often you selectively ignore things and flat-out accuse other people of stating things they didn't.

So basically, you are trying to shift the goalposts from flying to tumbling and rolling, and yet you still did not provide a clip of you even doing that. So concession accepted. [/B]

I can see I need to expose your BULLSHIT once again. Like I said, nothing I'm not used to by now with you. Here's the entire quote:

"I'm thinking you've never watched fights before like the UFC or even street fights. I can kick someone in the same position bucky did... standing.. and straight to the chest... and send him flying 10 feet. Granted, he won't fly in the air like that... but I could send him flying backwards"

Nice try though, you've been exposed.

Next, why would I have video of me sending someone flying? it's funny that you think videotaping stuff was as prevalent as it is now back when I was doing boxing.. and training here and there with my BJJ/MMA friends. Mid 90's it wasn't prevalent first, and second, even it was... why would we be filming and the odds of catching me doing something like that is even more random. nice try though, I never claimed I have video tape nor that I sent someone in the air like that.

What I did notice, and again with you, didn't surprise me one bit. WHICH is harder to send someone flying 10 for more feet... a kick square to the chest with both guys standing ... OR... or kicking a guy in the end while he's on the ground. Which is easier to send someone flying... tumbling... backwards... whatever. Then, if you're being honest, you know Ozy was harder. What seals the deal is... Ozy still sent the guy farther. So that ends that discussion there anyways.

Hopefully I don't have to continue to correct you like this, but I wouldn't be surprised either.

Actually reviewed the movie again that had the jet-kick on it.

Does someone have the means to post the scene here? Starting from the point Bucky comes into the deck and starts shooting up the place up to the point where he kicks the guy into the plane.

It will show 2 things:

1) An overhead view of the positioning of the person he kicked into the plane. It will show that the guy was at least 20 feet away, maybe more.

And the even better "feat" (and you guys will LOVE this):

2) Bucky BLOCKING a shot from an assault rife with his elbow AFTER it was fired. Edit. Reviewed clips again (around 10 times this time), might have been an anticipation block after all (at least partially). Nonetheless, this is bona fide bullet blocking right here.

If someone would be so kind as to post clips (as I currently do not have the means to do so), I think we can put this debate to rest.

Originally posted by Inhuman
This has gone far enough.

I have yet to see what puts Ozy in Cap's Level . Beating up some skilled humans doesnt cut it.

Here are a few feats for Bucky that Trump what Ozy can do. (Thanks to HulkisHulk for these gifs)

Here is Bucky kicking someone farther than Ozy did. The guy would have flown even farther if the Jet engine didn't swallow the guy up.

More punching people away several feat

Throws Sitwell with one arm arcoss to the other side of the freeway.

Ozy best feats are his reaction time. Bucky has similar reaction time. Here Bucky reacts fast enough to being shot by blocking the bullets. Fast enough to move out the way.

(cont.)

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Inhuman had already posted the feat with Bucky blocking the gun shot with his arm. I don't think KT has responded to that yet.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Actually reviewed the movie again that had the jet-kick on it.

Does someone have the means to post the scene here? Starting from the point Bucky comes into the deck and starts shooting up the place up to the point where he kicks the guy into the plane.

It will show 2 things:

1) An overhead view of the positioning of the person he kicked into the plane. It will show that the guy was at least 20 feet away, maybe more.

And the even better "feat" (and you guys will LOVE this):

2) Bucky BLOCKING a shot from an assault rife with his elbow AFTER it was fired. Not an anticipation catch, but an actual elbow block.

If someone would be so kind as to post clips (as I currently do not have the means to do so), I think we can put this debate to rest.

Longer gif of the one I posted.

Oh, damn musta missed it haha.

Anyway, yeah the overhead view of the crew approaching him CLEARLY shows that they were at least a good 20 feet away.

That was not 20 feet or more... wasn't even 20. However, let's say it was... Still not as impressive as Ozy's kicking feat to the head. It's either not as far or close... but still.... Ozy unquestionably would be harder to pull off and require much more force.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Oh, damn musta missed it haha.

Anyway, yeah the overhead view of the crew approaching him CLEARLY shows that they were at least a good 20 feet away.

Doesn't matter what they "were" when they first started approaching them.. he was moving forward... and by the time he got to the guy to kick him.. it wasn't 20 feet or more.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That was not 20 feet or more... wasn't even 20. However, let's say it was... Still not as impressive as Ozy's kicking feat to the head. It's either not as far or close... but still.... Ozy unquestionably would be harder to pull off and require much more force.

Look at it again, measure the bodies of the crew with the distance from the jet prior to its take-off. That is at least 4x their body distance. Unless you're saying they're less than 4 feet tall per, that's 20 feet.

And check the Ozy kick, the distance to that wall/pillar is hardly 10 feet. It is not even 1/3 the distance of the WS kick based on that overhead shot. And as soon as he bounced off the pillar, the rest of the distance and "air time" was due to the fact that they were at an elevated position and that he fell (while still retaining some of the momentum from the kick) along with being tossed back (meaning, that had they been on a flat area, he'd have hit the ground much sooner).

Distance goes to WS, no doubt. And it's not even close.

So, now we're done with "Ozy kicked further" and moving to the "Ozy's kick was harder to do" argument? I will proceed here as soon as you acknowledge the above.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Doesn't matter what they "were" when they first started approaching them.. he was moving forward... and by the time he got to the guy to kick him.. it wasn't 20 feet or more.

Sorry, but while WS was moving forward, so were the crew. AND I based my distancing on the LAST position of the crew. Meaning that they were moving further AWAY from the jet, not closer to it. Obviously.

IMO Ozy might be slightly faster, have better reflexes and be more skilled but Bucky is stronger and more durable and thats what clinches it.

Let's use visual aids here and compare both kicks distance-wise just so we can really close this part of the debate:

Ozy kicks Ror in the face.

1st image is the starting position prior to flight.
2nd image is the flight trajectory, his impact with wall/pillar and his subsequent fall (w/c still carried some momentum from the kick) from their elevated position.

Position of crew just prior to Bucky kick and the minimum distance he has to travel to hit the left wing (from the plane's and not our perspective) of the plane. Bear in mind the actual engine is even further away and is outside the screen.

Which looks further?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Look at it again, measure the bodies of the crew with the distance from the jet prior to its take-off. That is at least 4x their body distance. Unless you're saying they're less than 4 feet tall per, that's 20 feet.

And check the Ozy kick, the distance to that wall/pillar is hardly 10 feet. It is not even 1/3 the distance of the WS kick based on that overhead shot. And as soon as he bounced off the pillar, the rest of the distance and "air time" was due to the fact that they were at an elevated position and that he fell (while still retaining some of the momentum from the kick) along with being tossed back (meaning, that had they been on a flat area, he'd have hit the ground much sooner).

Distance goes to WS, no doubt. And it's not even close.

So, now we're done with "Ozy kicked further" and moving to the "Ozy's kick was harder to do" argument? I will proceed here as soon as you acknowledge the above.

Your distances aren't accurate though. I'm confused here.. are you claiming Ozy's kick was 10 feet and Bucky's was 20 or more? Is that your claim?

More importantly though.. isn't the distance it's where they kicked. In order for Ozy to send a guy flying like that from a kick to the head, is something that would require a crazy amount of force. In fact, so much force, that we've never seen it in a combat sports or street fight videos ever shown. It's impossible to send something flying like that. Reason being, you're kicking a part of the body with very little mass of the entire object. Just imagine a board was right in front of you that you want to kick.. Imagine kicking it dead square in the middle (where most of the mass of the object is).. then imagine kicking the tip or edge of the board(like the head, very little percentage of the mass of the entire object)... Which would go further?

Even examine real life... You can fine videos online of UFC or Pride fights or even real life fights. You'll see numerous videos of kicks square to the chest.. and people go flying backwards. Obviously they don't fly like Bucky's kick. By you can send somebody flying and tumbling back 5 or 10 feet.. especially if they aren't balanced correctly. You might even be able to ever so slightly get them off the ground as they are flying back. Reason being, where they are struck (mass of the object) is the key.

Do you dispute that it's much harder to send someone flying from a kick to the head... than from a kick to the chest? It's not about far... I already said awhile ago... Ozy's is simply much more impressive and would require more force to do so. Even if WS was 25 feet (it's not) and Ozy's 10 (it's not) When you factor in how much harder it is to send someone flying from a kick to the head while they are on the ground... So no, you haven't put to rest anything at all. Ozy's kick is still superior.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Let's use visual aids here and compare both kicks distance-wise just so we can really close this part of the debate:

Ozy kicks Ror in the face.

1st image is the starting position prior to flight.
2nd image is the flight trajectory, his impact with wall/pillar and his subsequent fall (w/c still carried some momentum from the kick) from their elevated position.

Position of crew just prior to Bucky kick and the minimum distance he has to travel to hit the left wing (from the plane's and not our perspective) of the plane. Bear in mind the actual engine is even further away and is outside the screen.

Which looks further?

Even in the pic you just posted.. he's 10 feet away or less from the jet... assuming he moved forward some.. but so did Bucky.. so we're left with a ? on how far away he was at the time of the kick. It certainly wasn't over 20.. and I doubt it was even 20 by the time of the kick. When we see the kick it visually looks no where near 20 or more feet.

It's not his distance from the jet. It's his distance from the jet's engine. You'll notice that that engine is already out of the picture.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Your distances aren't accurate though. I'm confused here.. are you claiming Ozy's kick was 10 feet and Bucky's was 20 or more? Is that your claim?

More importantly though.. isn't the distance it's where they kicked. In order for Ozy to send a guy flying like that from a kick to the head, is something that would require a crazy amount of force. In fact, so much force, that we've never seen it in a combat sports or street fight videos ever shown. It's impossible to send something flying like that. Reason being, you're kicking a part of the body with very little mass of the entire object. Just imagine a board was right in front of you that you want to kick.. Imagine kicking it dead square in the middle (where most of the mass of the object is).. then imagine kicking the tip or edge of the board(like the head, very little percentage of the mass of the entire object)... Which would go further?

Even examine real life... You can fine videos online of UFC or Pride fights or even real life fights. You'll see numerous videos of kicks square to the chest.. and people go flying backwards. Obviously they don't fly like Bucky's kick. By you can send somebody flying and tumbling back 5 or 10 feet.. especially if they aren't balanced correctly. You might even be able to ever so slightly get them off the ground as they are flying back. Reason being, where they are struck (mass of the object) is the key.

Do you dispute that it's much harder to send someone flying from a kick to the head... than from a kick to the chest? It's not about far... I already said awhile ago... Ozy's is simply much more impressive and would require more force to do so. Even if WS was 25 feet (it's not) and Ozy's 10 (it's not) When you factor in how much harder it is to send someone flying from a kick to the head while they are on the ground... So no, you haven't put to rest anything at all. Ozy's kick is still superior.

My distances aren't exactly accurate to the foot, no, but they're sure better than the guesstimates ppl here are doing. I'm using comparatives on the height of the ppl involved vs the possible distance of the items being compared. And my claim is that, based on the clips shown, Ozy's kick is around 10 feet give or take while Bucky's is closer to 30 feet than it is 20, maybe even more (by the angle of the plane and the positioning of the engine relative to the heigh of the crew, I'm willing to bet it is).

The rest of your post has no bearing on what I am trying to argue at the moment. My entire position was on distance, not difficulty. Once you acknowledge who kicked further, perhaps I can go on and move forward. Til then, I'll wait for your acknowledgement as to avoid having to circle back to the same argument all over again in future posts.

kt as always is just making excuses.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Even in the pic you just posted.. he's 10 feet away or less from the jet... assuming he moved forward some.. but so did Bucky.. so we're left with a ? on how far away he was at the time of the kick. It certainly wasn't over 20.. and I doubt it was even 20 by the time of the kick. When we see the kick it visually looks no where near 20 or more feet.

Are you kidding me? Come on, man. Are we looking at the same pic here? How can you even say he was less than 10 feet? Are you looking at the elevated TAIL of the jet w/c was NOT even where Bucky sent him. And, from virtue of perspective, appear closer only because it is elevated and blocking the camera from its angle? The wing engine's actual position is outside of the shot, and judging from the height of the crewman, it is well over 20 feet. Closer to 30.

And again, the positioning from that pic is the LEAST distance the crew member was prior to the kick. The CREW MEMBER WAS MOVING FORWARD from that position. Bucky moving forward has ZERO bearing on the position of the crewman prior to the kick. ZERO. How is this not obvious?

if you look at the gif I posted. You can see that Bucky kicked that guy around this area.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I can see I need to expose your BULLSHIT once again. Like I said, nothing I'm not used to by now with you. Here's the entire quote:

"I'm thinking you've never watched fights before like the UFC or even street fights. I can kick someone in the same position bucky did... standing.. and straight to the chest... and send him flying 10 feet. Granted, he won't fly in the air like that... but I could send him flying backwards"

Nice try though, you've been exposed.

Next, why would I have video of me sending someone flying? it's funny that you think videotaping stuff was as prevalent as it is now back when I was doing boxing.. and training here and there with my BJJ/MMA friends. Mid 90's it wasn't prevalent first, and second, even it was... why would we be filming and the odds of catching me doing something like that is even more random. nice try though, I never claimed I have video tape nor that I sent someone in the air like that.

What I did notice, and again with you, didn't surprise me one bit. WHICH is harder to send someone flying 10 for more feet... a kick square to the chest with both guys standing ... OR... or kicking a guy in the end while he's on the ground. Which is easier to send someone flying... tumbling... backwards... whatever. Then, if you're being honest, you know Ozy was harder. What seals the deal is... Ozy still sent the guy farther. So that ends that discussion there anyways.

Hopefully I don't have to continue to correct you like this, but I wouldn't be surprised either.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Are you kidding me? Come on, man. Are we looking at the same pic here? How can you even say he was less than 10 feet? Are you looking at the elevated TAIL of the jet w/c was NOT even where Bucky sent him. And, from virtue of perspective, appear closer only because it is elevated and blocking the camera from its angle? The wing engine's actual position is outside of the shot, and judging from the height of the crewman, it is well over 20 feet. Closer to 30.

And again, the positioning from that pic is the LEAST distance the crew member was prior to the kick. The CREW MEMBER WAS MOVING FORWARD from that position. Bucky moving forward has ZERO bearing on the position of the crewman prior to the kick. ZERO. How is this not obvious?

Kt will lie I hope because the only other option is his density is so bad he can't logically assess a scene.