Originally posted by Silent Master
Widow specifically used a diversion and the environment to sneak up on WS. Ozy didnt have to deal with anything even close.
youre missing the point... ozy knew an incoming attack was heading towards the left side of his head... he even dodged a second attack before turning around to see ror.
while widow had time to actually leap onto buckey shoulders after a couple loud setps on the hood of a car... looking at the footage he seemingly notices her but had no time to react
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
youre missing the point... ozy knew an incoming attack was heading towards the left side of his head... he even dodged a second attack before turning around to see ror.while widow had time to actually leap onto buckey shoulders after a couple loud setps on the hood of a car... looking at the footage he seemingly notices her but had no time to react
I agree that Ozy dodged a less impressive sneak attack.
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
bro i think bucky wins too.but you cant write off catching a bullet into a "one time thing" lmao
the speed necessary to do that even once outshines anything bucky ever did speedwise.
that sneezing metaphor is shit considering we can easily mimick a sneeze at anytime. not to mention it in no way relates to catching a bullet with your hand 😂
do you believe he caught the bullet by accident?also from my understanding ozy was not trying to kill in his fight with the 2 heroes. thus the tossing them around.
the most important fact about ozy as well is that he was not punched a single time...not once. even if he was looking during his monologue or fighting comedian.
bucky however was punched by everyone in the film. that alone tells you how much ozy overshadows other watchmen and even presents an argument that he may in fact fight better
Yes, the bullet catch is def an impressive "feat". We, however, need to be realistic with the circumstances behind it. It was anticipated. He knew where the bullet would end up as SS completely telegraphed the shot, giving him time at the very least to predict where it will hit and (to some extent) predict when it will be fired (he probably projected it based on SS's muscle twitches since she gave him the benefit of a staredown before pulling the trigger). And the force of the bullet stunned him and had him falling down (probably to dissipate the energy of the bullet).
WS, as well, elbow blocked a bullet fired from a much more powerful rifle (whose bullet moves 3x faster than a .38). Granted it was an anticipation block, it doesn't remove the fact that he did block a much faster projectile and he was able to respond to it.
Bear in mind, Ozy (having caught the bullet) is still the more impressive "feat" IMO, but it shows that both can respond to bullets and that their reflexes (or at least their ability to defensively anticipate shots) are comparable.
Ozy wasn't hit because he just wasn't facing opponents at the caliber of the opponents WS was facing. And the circumstances where they were hit (or not) are also completely different. Plain and simple. This is a false metric as it is completely apples and oranges.
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Widow hit him... not super
Falcon kicked him in the back...not super
Cap completely spanked his ass.why if? He clearly caught a bullet...he timed a bullet and caught it. No ifs, ands, or buts.
He didn't finish comedian off immediately because it's a movie obviously... he had several opportunities to stab, and shoot the comedian... so why didn't he?
Do you know how damn fast your eye and hand speed would have to be in order to catch even a single bullet? Do you?
I'll tell you fast enough that you could toy with your opponent and not be touched fighting 2 men with ease... oh wait he did 😂
Widow is obviously much better at sneak attacks than either Ror or Ozy. Ror's idea of a sneak attack is to stand in the middle of an open well lit room with noisy shoes while his buddy who actually had a laser gun stood by and waited 30 feet away (dafuq guys!?). Widow used misdirection, timed her attack at the peak of an explosion and timed it from an angle where she would have a perfect means of disabling her opponent's weapon.
Ozy had a good 3 seconds from Ror's clipcloppy shoes telling him someone was sneaking up to him. WS didn't even have a second to respond before Widow was on him.
Apples and oranges.
Falcon wears an uber jet pack and was skilled enough to dodge freakin anti-aircraft/anti-missile weaponry/countermeasures from multiple directions. Again, not comparable.
Unless, of course, you didn't catch the bullet as it was fired, but instead determined the position of the bullet from the aim of the gun and then predicted the timing shot via the facial and muscle twitches of the shooter (something Ozy said he was EXTREMELY adept at) and simply placed your bullet-proof glove in front of where it's going to be. You still need to move your arm into position fast enough, but it eliminates the need to perceive the actual bullet. Not trying to take away from the impressiveness of the "feat", it was quite badass and beyond anything Bucky did in WS, but let's not overblow it as well.
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
truebut my point is that ozy knows when and how he was being attacked while not looking
Like catching a speeding shield while your back is turned?
In order for him to predict where the bullet was going the way you're putting it he'd have to have already had his hands up front of the bullets trajectory.
Let's not forget the is a FILM
he clearly made his move AFTER SS fired the shot... they even emphasize this with slow-mo effect.
Ozy moving from the doorway to behind comedian before comedian notices, toying with two fighters, catching a bullet after it has been fired, dancing around gunfire. All suggest more speed than WS period
Originally posted by NibedicusSo what exactly is the point of your post if you also are aware that ozy reacted to the bullet after it was fired?
Need to clarify that I AM aware that Ozy DID move his arms AFTER said shot was fired. And that's what I meant by moving his arms into position fast enough.Before someone miscontrues my meaning and tries to correct me on this.
Moving your arms to catch the bullet is impressive AF whether he knew it's trajectory or not. And is also my point
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
In order for him to predict where the bullet was going the way you're putting it he'd have to have already had his hands up front of the bullets trajectory.Let's not forget the is a FILM
he clearly made his move AFTER SS fired the shot... they even emphasize this with slow-mo effect.
Ozy moving from the doorway to behind comedian before comedian notices, toying with two fighters, catching a bullet after it has been fired, dancing around gunfire. All suggest more speed than WS period
So what exactly is the point of your post if you also are aware that ozy reacted to the bullet after it was fired?Moving your arms to catch the bullet is impressive AF whether he knew it's trajectory or not. And is also my point
Knew you'd misconstrue my meaning. Hehe. To be fair, my post was kinda unspecific even tho I did say that he still needed to move his arms into position fast enough.
My point was exactly as what I said my point was. To clarify the factors behind said "feat" whilst neither downplaying nor overblowing it. Knowing the position of a bullet means he only needed to move his arm fast enough to a location he knew he had to be thus he no longer needed to percieve it.
Comedian rolled to get to his weapon, losing sight of Ozy. Giving Ozy enough time to reposition. Obviously. Not really superspeed there. WS danced around gunfire shot by a much better shot (Falcon) than the shitty assassin. And toying with opponents is not as impressive as taking out an entire deck full of fully armed trained soldiers in less than a minute or his fight with Cap. Owl and Ror were not at the level of Widow or Falcon. You are overblowing those "feats".
Ozy sole "feat" that tops what Bucky did was the bullet catch. In every other respect, Bucky had the better showings.
And Bucky does have the bullet elbow block. Not as inpressive as Ozy's as he already had his arm up, but an assault rifle round travels more than 3x as fast as a .38 bullet and he was able to react to it even tho he was also busy taking out another opponent.
They are peers in speed IMO. Altho I would give a slight edge in speed precision to Ozy, I still put superior fighting speed showings to WS.
Moving your arms after a gun has been fired is impossible at that distance whether you know the trajectory or not.
You know this right?
When rolling your senses do not shut down all of a sudden... he obviously moved too fast and too silently for comedian to register...he had to run around a coffee table and the sofa in order to get into that position. Let's not for tje scene was in slo mo also. He clearly moved at incredible speed.
WS killed people in the film with his skill with firearms...not h2h as were discussing here.
Black widow also gets most of her fighting done with tech, same with falcon. You seem to be forgetting watchmen casually punching through human bone... they may or may not have had any formal training but they were most certainly stronger than bw and falcon.
Blocking bullets is full within ozy skillset as is anybody's especially is they arm is metal. 😂
I say movement speed ozy
Fighting speed ozy
Ozy fought two arguably peak/superhuman people without without being tagged once...
Ws fought 1 superhuman and during doing so was tagged several times... and lost twice.
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Moving your arms after a gun has been fired is impossible at that distance whether you know the trajectory or not.
You know this right?When rolling your senses do not shut down all of a sudden... he obviously moved too fast and too silently for comedian to register...he had to run around a coffee table and the sofa in order to get into that position. Let's not for tje scene was in slo mo also. He clearly moved at incredible speed.
WS killed people in the film with his skill with firearms...not h2h as were discussing here.
Black widow also gets most of her fighting done with tech, same with falcon. You seem to be forgetting watchmen casually punching through human bone... they may or may not have had any formal training but they were most certainly stronger than bw and falcon.
Blocking bullets is full within ozy skillset as is anybody's especially is they arm is metal. 😂
I say movement speed ozy
Fighting speed ozyOzy fought two arguably peak/superhuman people without without being tagged once...
Ws fought 1 superhuman and during doing so was tagged several times... and lost twice.
Yes, impossible. For a real life human. Like it's impossible to kick someone 20-30 feet or to punch holes in highway concrete or to maintain your balance on your feet while standing on a speeding ans swerving vehicle on the freeway.
We're not talking about real life humans here. We need to separate the term "impossible" for movies as we do for real life and simply quantify said "feats" at face value. We KNOW these ppl are doing impossible things.
Are you kidding me? Comedian was not LOOKING at Ozy. He was staring right at the pistol right as he threw his cup and grabbed the gun. He obviously lost sight of Ozy. What are you trying to argue here? That Comedian has some sort of 3rd eye or something? At best he had a sense of where his opponent WAS. And he clearly expected his cup to distract his opponent long enough for him to grab his gun. But guess what? Didn't work. His opponent MOVED. He moved fast, sure. But let's not overblow the "feat" like it took superspeed.
He fought them with a combination of firearms and h2h. He also fought a superhuman on even terms H2H who has been shown to decimate entire platoons of tech-armed opponents in h2h wielding only a shield. He lost, sure, but he gave as much as he got. You like to laud Ozy's "quality" of opponents yet seem to gloss over how much better WS's opponents are.
Yes, Widow used tech. But she also fought swarms of bona fide superhuman aliens and robots (as well as trained soldiers). Owl and Ror? Thugs, cops and convicts. She also didn't wear special armor that made her dodge faster or land her blows more accurately. She just used tech to take them down faster or to bypass their durability. She's also taken down large opponents minus her tech. Including heavily trained Hydra agents using precision strikes. Or large thugs while her arms were tied while talking on the phone. Let's not pretend that she can't hit hard or disable tough opponents. Geez.
And YOU were the one who brought Falcon's showings (and Widow's for that matter) against WS like it was some sort of slight to Bucky's skill. Guess what? Falcon HAD his tech when he hit Bucky. And so did Widow. So your attempt to reverse the relevance of said tech towards WS showings (by attempting to highlight their "lack" of techless H2H showings) kinda falls flat.
Ozy did NOT fight superhuman opponents (relative to what superhumans are in movies). Nothing they did is something beyond what BW or (for that matter, Hawkeye) can do. Ror and Owl were clearly human level and only fought untrained (thugs and convicts) or semi-trained fodder (cops). Ror even lost to the damned cops. And Owl had help when he fought the convicts....
Ozy fought 0 superhumans (unless you count Dr M treating him like a gnat a "fight"😉. So tossing the "WS lost to a superhuman" showing is just kinda a meaningless attempt at lowballing.
And I never said that Ozy couldn't duplicate the bullet block. I SAID that WS had a "feat" that shows he can repsond to bullets that move much faster (although his showing was at a much lower difficulty). Pls try not to strawman my position and go ":Lol:". It makes you look disrespectful and desperate. And I mean this with no offense and would like to apologize in advance if it causes offense.
Ozy has shown no combat reflex showing to match the WS/Cap fights. He has the bullet catch "feat" as the absolute best his reflexes can do. Granted it is a badass showing, but let's not pretend that he demonstrated equivalent reflex in combat anywhere in Watchmen when he obviously did. Trying to equate bullet catching to combat speed is teying to pretend baseball players make great fighters cuz they can catch fast moving balls.... Doesn't work that way.
Again, overblowing Watchmen "feats" and lowballing Avengers "feats". I mean this will get kinda pointless if this is your entire M.O. Tsk.
Knowing that catching that bullet is impossible and what skills are required to pull off such a feat you'd agree ozy most possess extremely fast arm movement much more so than buckey right?
Whether or not he could see ozy is irrelevant considering along with that he did not hear ozy either. Do you see the distance between that doorway and where he ended up? Also do you see the furniture obstructing a straight line path to that area? All of the happened in slow-mo mind you and couldn't have happened in but a mere sec. Again a speed feat out of buckeys skillset.
Firearms helped him out like i said. Buckeys opponents themselves depend on tech to help them in fights... the only person Bucky fought pure hand to hand is cap and lost pretty clearly each time. You keep bringing up Buckys competition when he never won against them h2h.
if Bucky had won a fight with the heroes id agree his stats are as you claim. But really he simply did no damage to them.
Yes bw has fought military personnel... with guns and tech
Aliens didn't appear stronger than the average military human( have no idea where you got they were strong)
And some goons while tied to a chair. Point is you're classifying as some superhuman fighter when she does fight well she must use gadgets and weaponry to push forward. There's no arguing with this. Now to the main point the thugs, cops, and convicts were being kicked around and punched through suggesting watchmen heroes are peak/ superhuman. Which is stronger than BW and actually not too far from cap level. Never said should couldn't hit hard lol.
Only stated she's clearly not a physically strong as the watchmen.
That underline part. Don't understand what you're saying. Everyone has brought up BW in this thread.
Owl, ror, and SS are clearly strong AF how are they not peak/ superhuman?
You keep bringing up watchmen fodder as if they posed some type of threat and weren't decimated by the heroes.
Only ror was captured by the cops he's probably less stronger than owl and ss.
You keep bringing up fights that bucky lost decisively of course im going to bring that up he couldn't do damage to cap. yet you expect me to believe they're on the same level filmwise therefore he's miles better than ozy? I do believe Bucky wins because his strength advantage. Not because he's that good h2h.
I can't help how you feel about what i type. honestly You should probably suck it up...IJS
Bucky blocked some bullets...wow
Ozy caught a bullet...
So we can count the fact ozy was fast enough to catch a bullet because doing so would mean hes untouchable H2H (which he wasn't touched)
Bucky however gets praised for losing to cap? Something ozy is fully capable of doing? Even batroc did that. Are we to believe batroc can beat ozy as well?
I believe thats called bias
Originally posted by FrothByte
Name me the people who actually landed a hit on Bucky. How many of them were superhuman?Besides, if Ozy was really a bullet timer, how come it took him so long to finish off Comedian? He was obviously trying to kill Comedian, so unless Comedian is close to being a bullet-timer himself, Ozy should have been able to easily land blows and finish off the fight in a few seconds. The fact that he didn't implies that his speed difference is not that vast above Comedian.
Bottom line is, one bullet catching feat does not outweigh the fighting speed which he displayed.
First, him not having a blow landed on him tells you his skill and speed. That has zero to do with Comedian's durability and how he was able to still be standing. Again, those aren't mutually inclusive things. So I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. To say nothing of the fact, Ozy was likely just toying with him, as he did everybody else, and when it was time to end it... he ended it.
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
truebut my point is that ozy knows when and how he was being attacked while not looking
The thing I think even you're forgetting, and these guys certainly are... is that Ozy is EXPONENTIONALLY smarter than WS... or Cap or BW... He would've never been caught by surprise by BW... Wouldn't happen... He likely would've already predicted it.
BTW, not that you made the argument... but in no way shape or form is BW formidable h2h than RO and N.O are combined. That has to be one of the biggest jokes I've seen. Ozy took on two peak human skill level dudes... was joking.. doing a monologue... turning his back to more formidable people combined than BW is by herself.
Anyways, point is, Ozy is simply vastly smarter than WS.. in the end.. his superior skill and speed will win the day.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Knew you'd misconstrue my meaning. Hehe. To be fair, my post was kinda unspecific even tho I did say that he still needed to move his arms into position fast enough.My point was exactly as what I said my point was. To clarify the factors behind said "feat" whilst neither downplaying nor overblowing it. Knowing the position of a bullet means he only needed to move his arm fast enough to a location he knew he had to be thus he no longer needed to percieve it.
Comedian rolled to get to his weapon, losing sight of Ozy. Giving Ozy enough time to reposition. Obviously. Not really superspeed there. WS danced around gunfire shot by a much better shot (Falcon) than the shitty assassin. And toying with opponents is not as impressive as taking out an entire deck full of fully armed trained soldiers in less than a minute or his fight with Cap. Owl and Ror were not at the level of Widow or Falcon. You are overblowing those "feats".
Ozy sole "feat" that tops what Bucky did was the bullet catch. In every other respect, Bucky had the better showings.
And Bucky does have the bullet elbow block. Not as inpressive as Ozy's as he already had his arm up, but an assault rifle round travels more than 3x as fast as a .38 bullet and he was able to react to it even tho he was also busy taking out another opponent.
They are peers in speed IMO. Altho I would give a slight edge in speed precision to Ozy, I still put superior fighting speed showings to WS.
Another complete lie that continues to be perpetuated. I've trounced every single person that has tried to say Bucky has superior feats... if you feel you do POST them, and stop saying he has superior feats... he doesn't.
Speed - Ozy
Reaction - Ozy
Jumping - Ozy
Kicking strength - Ozy
Punching Strength - With his arm Bucky
Throwing - Ozy again
Durability - Hard to really gauge it since Ozy was never put down at all, while WS was. I'm okay with giving it to Bucky with question marks
Strength - With one arm Bucky
Intelligence (does factor into a fight) - Ozy
Now, IM tried to post feats that were superior and he ended up with Superior punching power and possible strength. The rest he had no answer for the feats I posted. Stop pontificating and post these superior feats.