Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
What has Ozy done that would put him anywhere near Bucky? Just because he sort of caught a bullet doesn't mean shit to someone who can forcibly dig his fingers into Iron Man's armor, and fight evenly with Captain America. Hell, Bucky could probably solo the entire Watchman U, minus Manhattan.

Only he's not Cap equal, Cap is a step above, and decidedly so at that. That was the logic being used being used in this thread, and it falls very short. He's not equal to Cap, and that has been conclusively shown time and time again. This is what we are left with:

Ozy is faster
Ozy is more skilled
Ozy has better reactions
Ozy has comparable striking power

Those are the reason this is a fight, and further, the feats in question show that it is. In fact, it's Ozy's to lose. Let's examine further.

BP was able to visibly affect WS and Cap, but mostly WS. This is important because it shows somebody who isn't on SS can hurt him, and in some cases send him flying. We don't know the specifics of BP (could be a result of the heart like in comics), however at this point nothing has been said. It seems they are portraying him as just being a super highly skilled guy. If that's the case, well Ozy is the pinnacle of human training. That is his whole deal. Through training he's become Super Human in many ways based on feats. Well then, he can certainly fight with Bucky, since we know Bucky hasn't blown through mere humans. BP got the better of most of their fights. Well, Hawkeye had a good showing one v one with BP in h2h only.

The above further illustrates that humans, especially skiled ones can compete with WS and BP types. Well, Ozy is above people like Widow or Haweye. I doubt they'd even land a single blow on him, and he'd be doing a monologue in the process of beating them. It's a non fight. Ozy didn't have a single blow landed on him by the most skilled people of that verse. They were highly skilled guys with beyond human stats in some areas. Ozy didn't have a blow landed on him by peak human skill types (BW, Hawkeye), not a blow landed on him. He casually and without effort dealt with them. He's probably two levels above Bucky in skill, who knows maybe more. Point is, Ozy is the more skilled guy, and has the better track record against solidly skilled human types, and easily so.

He's faster than Bucky, so not only is he more skilled, decidedly faster than Bucky. See the bullet catching feat and knife catch. Notice RO and Niteowl against tough guy types. They were markedly faster than him, and were sending them flying all over. They weren't touched. Then imagine those same guys never even being to landed blows, even two v one, even when he has his back turned talking. All of the above illustrates Ozy superior speed, and it's frankly not all that close.

Lastly, we have striking power. Notice how he's sending guys flying with his blows. Sometimes 10 feet, sometimes 20 feet. He's easily picking up grown men and sending them flying 15 casually. His blows woiuld certainly have an affect on WS, and being more skilled, he'll land them. But added to all that is his intelligence. He's exponentially smarter than Bucky in every way. He's the smartest guy on the planet. You don't think he'd immediately come up with a plan to deal with Bucky from the jump? Your kidding yourself. That is exactly what he'd do

Originally posted by Robtard
Even going on the grounds that WS will never land a direct hit (which I don't agree with), blocking that arm will wear down Ozy, it punches into concrete and rips through metal.

Funny enough, it was argued in this very thread by others that Ozy has a protective suit on. One that can even stop a point blank gun shot. Seems as though he does have decent protection for any blows that WS would happen to land. I would agree Ozy can't take repeated blows from the arm. Clearly that would be bad in the end. However, as skilled as Ozy is and as hard as he hits... WS durability is going to be tested before Ozy's imo

When has it been conclusively shown time and time again that Cap is that far above Bucky? Please list down all the fight scenes. Because as far as I can tell, Cap only beat Bucky once and it was a pretty close fight.

Ozy wins

Huh? How many times do I have to say it? I mean lord Froth, do you just gloss over whole paragraphs or something? Anyways, in pretty much every fight either had, EVER, like ever. I mean how is it not proven? He beat Bucky at the end of WS, and lets not kid ourselves here, it wasn't all that hard in the end. For all their previous fights, the end Cap imo just handled business relatively easily. Finishing move was almost gifted to him, like he had no skill. More proof? As if that isn't enough everybody they fought?

I mean when Bucky was about to get filled by BP, Cap had to save him with badassness. BP had an advantage in pretty much every fight they had. Literally. BP looked vastly more skilled than Bucky, and it was only Bucky's arm that kept him in the fight, but even then BP looked superior and landed the more teling blpws. I mean count the times BP sent WS flying with blows or clear hard hits, they exceed the times WS landed anything on him. It wasn't a good showing for WS to be honest

Did you miss Cap getting Bucky? Did you miss when Bucky went crazy and was bloodlusted and Cap was holding back, and Cap was still holding his own and bossing the fight really.

Against Spiderman, again, Cap GREATLY exceeds WS showing, and I mean vastly so. Spiderman with the greatest of ease took down WS, I mean it was bad. He casually owned him. Yet Cap, though some PIS obviously still does much better. I mean vastly better. It was made clear Cap's skill and smarts make him more formidable than WS, and this scene exemplifies that very thing.

Even again IM, again neither really had much of a chance IMO. This was blatant PIS and CIS by IM. That notwithstanding, again Cap does considerably better than WS. I mean vastly better. One was putting in work, the other did okay, but ended up getting maimed and badly hurt. That was WITH help from that same Cap. So again, Cap outshines him. I mean how can you even question this Froth is beyond me.

Lastly, as I said in the above, Hawkeye was able to compete with BP in his suit. We know he's badass in his suit. Hawkeye acquitted himself well there, though was going to lose in the end. Yet as I said in the above, BP looked WS superior in skill, and really most everything... So that tells us Ozy can certainly compete with WS. There was this impression that the SS coupled with his arm meant he was out of Ozy's league. Well clearly not, as I don't think Hawkeye would land a blow on Ozy to be honest. I mean maybe one, I guess, but honestly he'd get destroyed right? Shit, we even saw BP not in his suit able to block and catch Bucky's punch. Clearly demonstrating what a "human" can do with more skill.

The point is, imo all this film does is further illustrate that Bucky is not out of Ozy's league. Imo that's been conclusively shown after this movie. You're still free to think Bucky does win, but he's not out of Ozy's league

Originally posted by FrothByte
When has it been conclusively shown time and time again that Cap is that far above Bucky? Please list down all the fight scenes. Because as far as I can tell, Cap only beat Bucky once and it was a pretty close fight.

At this point I think it's safe to say that KT is just trolling.

👆

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Huh? How many times do I have to say it? I mean lord Froth, do you just gloss over whole paragraphs or something? Anyways, in pretty much every fight either had, EVER, like ever. I mean how is it not proven? He beat Bucky at the end of WS, and lets not kid ourselves here, it wasn't all that hard in the end. For all their previous fights, the end Cap imo just handled business relatively easily. Finishing move was almost gifted to him, like he had no skill. More proof? As if that isn't enough everybody they fought?

I mean when Bucky was about to get filled by BP, Cap had to save him with badassness. BP had an advantage in pretty much every fight they had. Literally. BP looked vastly more skilled than Bucky, and it was only Bucky's arm that kept him in the fight, but even then BP looked superior and landed the more teling blpws. I mean count the times BP sent WS flying with blows or clear hard hits, they exceed the times WS landed anything on him. It wasn't a good showing for WS to be honest

Did you miss Cap getting Bucky? Did you miss when Bucky went crazy and was bloodlusted and Cap was holding back, and Cap was still holding his own and bossing the fight really.

Against Spiderman, again, Cap GREATLY exceeds WS showing, and I mean vastly so. Spiderman with the greatest of ease took down WS, I mean it was bad. He casually owned him. Yet Cap, though some PIS obviously still does much better. I mean vastly better. It was made clear Cap's skill and smarts make him more formidable than WS, and this scene exemplifies that very thing.

Even again IM, again neither really had much of a chance IMO. This was blatant PIS and CIS by IM. That notwithstanding, again Cap does considerably better than WS. I mean vastly better. One was putting in work, the other did okay, but ended up getting maimed and badly hurt. That was WITH help from that same Cap. So again, Cap outshines him. I mean how can you even question this Froth is beyond me.

Lastly, as I said in the above, Hawkeye was able to compete with BP in his suit. We know he's badass in his suit. Hawkeye acquitted himself well there, though was going to lose in the end. Yet as I said in the above, BP looked WS superior in skill, and really most everything... So that tells us Ozy can certainly compete with WS. There was this impression that the SS coupled with his arm meant he was out of Ozy's league. Well clearly not, as I don't think Hawkeye would land a blow on Ozy to be honest. I mean maybe one, I guess, but honestly he'd get destroyed right? Shit, we even saw BP not in his suit able to block and catch Bucky's punch. Clearly demonstrating what a "human" can do with more skill.

The point is, imo all this film does is further illustrate that Bucky is not out of Ozy's league. Imo that's been conclusively shown after this movie. You're still free to think Bucky does win, but he's not out of Ozy's league

So when you said "Cap bested WS multiple times" you were actually just referring to their last fight in TWS right? Couldn't have been their street fight, because that was inconclusive. And if Cap getting pushed down an elevator shaft and getting knocked out is your version of "holding his own" then I'll have to agree with Silent Master and say you're simply trolling.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Only he's not Cap equal, Cap is a step above, and decidedly so at that. That was the logic being used being used in this thread, and it falls very short. He's not equal to Cap, and that has been conclusively shown time and time again. This is what we are left with:

Ozy is faster
Ozy is more skilled
Ozy has better reactions
Ozy has comparable striking power

Those are the reason this is a fight, and further, the feats in question show that it is. In fact, it's Ozy's to lose. Let's examine further.

BP was able to visibly affect WS and Cap, but mostly WS. This is important because it shows somebody who isn't on SS can hurt him, and in some cases send him flying. We don't know the specifics of BP (could be a result of the heart like in comics), however at this point nothing has been said. It seems they are portraying him as just being a super highly skilled guy. If that's the case, well Ozy is the pinnacle of human training. That is his whole deal. Through training he's become Super Human in many ways based on feats. Well then, he can certainly fight with Bucky, since we know Bucky hasn't blown through mere humans. BP got the better of most of their fights. Well, Hawkeye had a good showing one v one with BP in h2h only.

The above further illustrates that humans, especially skiled ones can compete with WS and BP types. Well, Ozy is above people like Widow or Haweye. I doubt they'd even land a single blow on him, and he'd be doing a monologue in the process of beating them. It's a non fight. Ozy didn't have a single blow landed on him by the most skilled people of that verse. They were highly skilled guys with beyond human stats in some areas. Ozy didn't have a blow landed on him by peak human skill types (BW, Hawkeye), not a blow landed on him. He casually and without effort dealt with them. He's probably two levels above Bucky in skill, who knows maybe more. Point is, Ozy is the more skilled guy, and has the better track record against solidly skilled human types, and easily so.

He's faster than Bucky, so not only is he more skilled, decidedly faster than Bucky. See the bullet catching feat and knife catch. Notice RO and Niteowl against tough guy types. They were markedly faster than him, and were sending them flying all over. They weren't touched. Then imagine those same guys never even being to landed blows, even two v one, even when he has his back turned talking. All of the above illustrates Ozy superior speed, and it's frankly not all that close.

Lastly, we have striking power. Notice how he's sending guys flying with his blows. Sometimes 10 feet, sometimes 20 feet. He's easily picking up grown men and sending them flying 15 casually. His blows woiuld certainly have an affect on WS, and being more skilled, he'll land them. But added to all that is his intelligence. He's exponentially smarter than Bucky in every way. He's the smartest guy on the planet. You don't think he'd immediately come up with a plan to deal with Bucky from the jump? Your kidding yourself. That is exactly what he'd do

Cap shitted on bucky every fight they had. Who in their right mind would deny this?
Cap got pushed down the shaft because his friend who was normal not five minutes ago was now trying to kill people and attacked him.

Other than that cap had him running away on the freeway...damn near put him to sleep after that

Is there a version of CA:TWS that's exclusive of YouTube?

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Other than that cap had him running away on the freeway...

lolwut... they were going back and forth that entire fight, and were both standing and still facing each other (and WS was about to take a shot at Cap) when first Falcon intervened (kicking him) and then Widow chose to interrupt by firing a grenade at Bucky. But hey, let's pretend that Winter Soldier didn't suddenly find himself outnumbered 3-to-1, and that he ran in fear from Cap alone.

So this notion that Cap "shitted" on WS is not being very honest about what actually happens.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Huh? How many times do I have to say it? I mean lord Froth, do you just gloss over whole paragraphs or something? Anyways, in pretty much every fight either had, EVER, like ever. I mean how is it not proven? He beat Bucky at the end of WS, and lets not kid ourselves here, it wasn't all that hard in the end. For all their previous fights, the end Cap imo just handled business relatively easily. Finishing move was almost gifted to him, like he had no skill. More proof? As if that isn't enough everybody they fought?

I mean when Bucky was about to get filled by BP, Cap had to save him with badassness. BP had an advantage in pretty much every fight they had. Literally. BP looked vastly more skilled than Bucky, and it was only Bucky's arm that kept him in the fight, but even then BP looked superior and landed the more teling blpws. I mean count the times BP sent WS flying with blows or clear hard hits, they exceed the times WS landed anything on him. It wasn't a good showing for WS to be honest

Did you miss Cap getting Bucky? Did you miss when Bucky went crazy and was bloodlusted and Cap was holding back, and Cap was still holding his own and bossing the fight really.

Against Spiderman, again, Cap GREATLY exceeds WS showing, and I mean vastly so. Spiderman with the greatest of ease took down WS, I mean it was bad. He casually owned him. Yet Cap, though some PIS obviously still does much better. I mean vastly better. It was made clear Cap's skill and smarts make him more formidable than WS, and this scene exemplifies that very thing.

Even again IM, again neither really had much of a chance IMO. This was blatant PIS and CIS by IM. That notwithstanding, again Cap does considerably better than WS. I mean vastly better. One was putting in work, the other did okay, but ended up getting maimed and badly hurt. That was WITH help from that same Cap. So again, Cap outshines him. I mean how can you even question this Froth is beyond me.

Lastly, as I said in the above, Hawkeye was able to compete with BP in his suit. We know he's badass in his suit. Hawkeye acquitted himself well there, though was going to lose in the end. Yet as I said in the above, BP looked WS superior in skill, and really most everything... So that tells us Ozy can certainly compete with WS. There was this impression that the SS coupled with his arm meant he was out of Ozy's league. Well clearly not, as I don't think Hawkeye would land a blow on Ozy to be honest. I mean maybe one, I guess, but honestly he'd get destroyed right? Shit, we even saw BP not in his suit able to block and catch Bucky's punch. Clearly demonstrating what a "human" can do with more skill.

The point is, imo all this film does is further illustrate that Bucky is not out of Ozy's league. Imo that's been conclusively shown after this movie. You're still free to think Bucky does win, but he's not out of Ozy's league

Bucky.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

So this notion that Cap "shitted" on WS is not being very honest about what actually happens.

👆

Originally posted by FrothByte
So when you said "Cap bested WS multiple times" you were actually just referring to their last fight in TWS right? Couldn't have been their street fight, because that was inconclusive. And if Cap getting pushed down an elevator shaft and getting knocked out is your version of "holding his own" then I'll have to agree with Silent Master and say you're simply trolling.

Nice dodging. So again, did Cap not look superior to Bucky in every way? I mean he has not only beat his ass, but he's looked superior against common foes. True or no? You questioned my stance and had no retort for it. So are you conceding I was indeed correct and Cap is above him?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
lolwut... they were going back and forth that entire fight, and were both standing and still facing each other (and WS was about to take a shot at Cap) when first Falcon intervened (kicking him) and then Widow chose to interrupt by firing a grenade at Bucky. But hey, let's pretend that Winter Soldier didn't suddenly find himself outnumbered 3-to-1, and that he ran in fear from Cap alone.

So this notion that Cap "shitted" on WS is not being very honest about what actually happens.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Cap disarmed bucky like 3 Times, beat him 1v1 multiple times... foh

And Bucky took Cap's shield from him at one stage during the highway fight, and knocked it from his grip during their final fight as well. And what are these multiple instances? Their match on the highway got interrupted when both were still standing, Cap beat him at the end of TWS, and got thrown down an elevator shaft during their only serious scuffle in Civil War.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Funny enough, it was argued in this very thread by others that Ozy has a protective suit on. One that can even stop a point blank gun shot. Seems as though he does have decent protection for any blows that WS would happen to land. I would agree Ozy can't take repeated blows from the arm. Clearly that would be bad in the end. However, as skilled as Ozy is and as hard as he hits... WS durability is going to be tested before Ozy's imo

I have no problem going with Ozy's suit being bullet-resistant like his glove was even though we don't actually know. But IM's armor is ridiculously more durable and Bucky's bionic-arm was tearing into that.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Cap disarmed bucky like 3 Times, beat him 1v1 multiple times... foh