Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by Robtard
I have no problem going with Ozy's suit being bullet-resistant like his glove was even though we don't actually know. But IM's armor is ridiculously more durable and Bucky's bionic-arm was tearing into that.

True, but this was the same armor that was already compromised throughout the entire movie. Same with his arm itself which compromised. I mean this same armor has taken tank fire, missile fire, all type of gun fire, hit by cars, hit by the hulk, near nuclear explosions and next to nothing happened to his suit. This tells us one of two things... This is blatant PIS his suit was damaged or it was already compromised. This was further reinforced with Cap doing damage with his fists alone, again something exponentially lost powerful than other things he's taken.

Using that logic, Ozy catching that bullet was PIS.

Even saying the IM suit in that instance was at 50% durability (which I personally don't agree with), 50% IM suit is still far more durable than a suit that an stop bullets as its highly feat.

We also have the instances of Bucky's arm breaking concrete (CA;WTS) and ripping metal restraints (CA:CW). Ozy's suit won't be much protection from it, imo.

None of that is good enough because apparently Bucky is too slow to react to Ozy in spite of deflecting a faster caliber of bullets than Ozy. He's obviously never beaten higher tier opponents like Rorschach or Nite Owl. Its not like Cap has ever beaten anyone By virtue of skill, what have Crossbones, Red Skull, Bucky,and Batroc done that compares to beating knife wielding thugs and cops?

Nothing that's what I thought Ozy is clearly more skilled and has beaten a higher caliber of superhuman opponents.

Originally posted by Robtard
Even saying the IM suit in that instance was at 50% durability (which I personally don't agree with), 50% IM suit is still far more durable than a suit that an stop bullets as its highly feat.

We also have the instances of Bucky's arm breaking concrete (CA;WTS) and ripping metal restraints (CA:CW). Ozy's suit won't be much protection from it, imo.

Oh I agree, I don't think it offers all that much protection in the end. That was never my point. My point is, he doesn't need that much protection based on feats. Bucky's arm was punching people and they were exploding. They weren't even killed. BW was able to block one of his shots. BP without his suit was able to block his robotic arm shots. Even Tony without his suit was able to parry and counter a strike from the arm.

There is simply no escaping the fact that BP in his suit was getting the better of Bucky, and in one instance had to be saved by Cap. When looking at the fights as a whole, BP certainly looked better and got the better of the action. That same BP in his suit was going back and forth with Hawkeye, a mere human, a skilled one, but still a human. This imo concretely tells us Ozy can compete with WS, and imo, likely win. Ozy is clearly better than Hawkeye, and if Hawkeye can hang with a BP that was beating WS... Yeah, he'll do just fine.

He's not going to be taking blows from that arm though. By feats the arm seems easy enough to block (done so by multiple people) this is assuming Ozy isn't just dodging punches and countering sending Bucky flying. Make no mistake, Ozy's superior skill will allow him not to get touched as much, thatis exactly what I'm counting on big Rob.

Typical quan like lowballing.

Kt continues to try to assert his worthless and ignorant opinion as a fact. He won't ever learn.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Oh I agree, I don't think it offers all that much protection in the end. That was never my point. My point is, he doesn't need that much protection based on feats. Bucky's arm was punching people and they were exploding. They weren't even killed. BW was able to block one of his shots. BP without his suit was able to block his robotic arm shots. Even Tony without his suit was able to parry and counter a strike from the arm.

There is simply no escaping the fact that BP in his suit was getting the better of Bucky, and in one instance had to be saved by Cap. When looking at the fights as a whole, BP certainly looked better and got the better of the action. That same BP in his suit was going back and forth with Hawkeye, a mere human, a skilled one, but still a human. This imo concretely tells us Ozy can compete with WS, and imo, likely win. Ozy is clearly better than Hawkeye, and if Hawkeye can hang with a BP that was beating WS... Yeah, he'll do just fine.

He's not going to be taking blows from that arm though. By feats the arm seems easy enough to block (done so by multiple people) this is assuming Ozy isn't just dodging punches and countering sending Bucky flying. Make no mistake, Ozy's superior skill will allow him not to get touched as much, thatis exactly what I'm counting on big Rob.

Bucky's arm not 'exploding' people doesn't take away from its highest feats. It'd be like saying "since Nightowl didn't shatter bone with every punch, then he can't", yet we go with Dan casually shattering bone when using him as a measure for Ozy.

BP wasn't trying to kill Hawyeye or even seriously harm him, he's not a ruthless murderer. Having said that, BP (in suit) getting the better of Bucky isn't a low showing for Bucky, since BP's a total badass himself.

Considering a substantial portion Ozy's fighting style was blocking attacks and then countering, I'm uncertain why you think he's suddenly not going to need to block blows from Bucky, who is a more skilled combatant than NO and Rors?

In case your brain doesn't work correctly blocking doesn't equate to catching...

Originally posted by Robtard
Bucky's arm not 'exploding' people doesn't take away from its highest feats. It'd be like saying "since Nightowl didn't shatter bone with every punch, then he can't", yet we go with Dan casually shattering bone when using him as a measure for Ozy.

BP wasn't trying to kill Hawyeye or even seriously harm him, he's not a ruthless murderer. Having said that, BP (in suit) getting the better of Bucky isn't a low showing for Bucky, since BP's a total badass himself.

Considering a substantial portion Ozy's fighting style was blocking attacks and then countering, I'm uncertain why you think he's suddenly not going to need to block blows from Bucky, who is a more skilled combatant than NO and Rors?

My opinion is, that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if he blocks or dodges the blows. Lesser people have. I agree it's not a low showing to get beat by BP, but that still doesn't change the fact that he did lose to him throughout. Regardless if he was going for the kill against Hawkeye or not, they were exchanging blows and he was trying to put hawkeye down, yet Hawkeye was hanging in there with him. While being very skilled and badass himself, he's still a human. Only he's not Ozy good and the pinnacle of human evolution ability.

That further proves my point, Nite-owl blows were doing that, and Ozy was having zero issue blocking those hard strikes. He didn't seem to be the least bit bothered by it. Now, even though Bucky's blows weren't shattering people's bones, he should certainly be able to hit harder. I have no issue there. But clearly Ozy or Ozy's suit will be able to take some damage and certainly more so than people who had no suits or his skills or power. Think about it Big Rob and we can't escape these facts

Normal Humans were able to block Bucky's blows

1. Stark without his suit was able to counter one strike from his arm
2. BW in their brief exchanges was able to block his arm and not get hers broken
3. BP without his suit had no issue blocking blows from his arm.

If BW is able to parry blows from that arm.. are you telling me Ozy won't be able to do the same bud?

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
In case your brain doesn't work correctly blocking doesn't equate to catching...

In case that was to me? My argument isn't about catching attacks.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
My opinion is, that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if he blocks or dodges the blows. Lesser people have. I agree it's not a low showing to get beat by BP, but that still doesn't change the fact that he did lose to him throughout. Regardless if he was going for the kill against Hawkeye or not, they were exchanging blows and he was trying to put hawkeye down, yet Hawkeye was hanging in there with him. While being very skilled and badass himself, he's still a human. Only he's not Ozy good and the pinnacle of human evolution ability.

That further proves my point, Nite-owl blows were doing that, and Ozy was having zero issue blocking those hard strikes. He didn't seem to be the least bit bothered by it. Now, even though Bucky's blows weren't shattering people's bones, he should certainly be able to hit harder. I have no issue there. But clearly Ozy or Ozy's suit will be able to take some damage and certainly more so than people who had no suits or his skills or power. Think about it Big Rob and we can't escape these facts

Normal Humans were able to block Bucky's blows

1. Stark without his suit was able to counter one strike from his arm
2. BW in their brief exchanges was able to block his arm and not get hers broken
3. BP without his suit had no issue blocking blows from his arm.

If BW is able to parry blows from that arm.. are you telling me Ozy won't be able to do the same bud?

Look at it this way, do you think Ozy could beat BP with suit? I certainly don't.

See, that is what I was referring to, you're going on the premise that Dan's blows were bone-breaking power because that's the highest feat he showed, despite that he wasn't breaking bone with every hit and then ignore Bucky's highest, which was well beyond breaking bone; but instead focus on his lowest.

Pointing out a few lower doesn't take away from the greater. Bucky did send guys flying when they raided his house as an example and he wasn't trying to kill anyone. Arms cracks concrete. Arms rips through metal. Arms digs into IM suit. Arm overpowers Steve. Arms breaks glass designed to hold supers, Arms throws shield so powerfully it pushes Steve back etc.

edit: and not I'm not arguing that Ozy won't be able to block at all, just that it will wear him down doing so repeatedly

Originally posted by Robtard
In case that was to me? My argument isn't about catching attacks.

I don't know who said blocking a bullet is in anyway comparable to catching a bullet.

But thats who i was talking too

Well catching a single(slow moving) bullet from a gun that was aimed at you for 30 seconds(plenty of time for a genius like Ozy to guess the trajectory) is nowhere near as impressive as repeatedly blocking automatic machinegun fire. Which Bucky did in Winter Soldier and multiple times in Civil War when the Germans came for him.

Also "catching" is a very generous term. Ozy got hit in the hand with the bullet and simply closed his hand over it when he fell. If he'd caught it as the term generally means, it wouldn't have squashed from the impact. It'd be a caseless bullet because he caught it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Look at it this way, do you think Ozy could beat BP with suit? I certainly don't.

See, that is what I was referring to, you're going on the premise that Dan's blows were bone-breaking power because that's the highest feat he showed, despite that he wasn't breaking bone with every hit and then ignore Bucky's highest, which was well beyond breaking bone; but instead focus on his lowest.

Pointing out a few lower doesn't take away from the greater. Bucky did send guys flying when they raided his house as an example and he wasn't trying to kill anyone. Arms cracks concrete. Arms rips through metal. Arms digs into IM suit. Arm overpowers Steve. Arms breaks glass designed to hold supers, Arms throws shield so powerfully it pushes Steve back etc.

edit: and not I'm not arguing that Ozy won't be able to block at all, just that it will wear him down doing so repeatedly

So let me get your stance clear here though. Cause I'm a bit confused on what exactly you're saying Big Rob. Are you saying the showings I mentioned don't count and that regular humans can't block blows from his arm? Seems like you're calling those low showings or some form of PIS. I'm just trying to wrap my head around exactly what your stance is here. I mean, if it was just one time and one person was able to, sure we can call that an anomaly. However, when multiple do it, it no longer become that, and instead becomes evidence. Maybe not complete evidence, but evidence none the less.

Now, that said, I agree that Ozy would eventually get worn down by having to block repeated blows form that arm. It's just not a good idea to get hit by it, even if you're blocking. No argument there mane.

If Bucky hit Ozy as hard as he could with that arm every single time(shattering concrete, ripping out a steering column, digging a knife through a van, embedding the shield in said van, ripping off metal restraints specifically designed to hold him, punching down that door, etc...) Ozy will get something shattered in I'd say less than 4 hits.

Originally posted by KingD19
Well catching a single(slow moving) bullet from a gun that was aimed at you for 30 seconds(plenty of time for a genius like Ozy to guess the trajectory) is nowhere near as impressive as repeatedly blocking automatic machinegun fire. Which Bucky did in Winter Soldier and multiple times in Civil War when the Germans came for him.

Also "catching" is a very generous term. Ozy got hit in the hand with the bullet and simply closed his hand over it when he fell. If he'd caught it as the term generally means, it wouldn't have squashed from the impact. It'd be a caseless bullet because he caught it.

"Slow Moving" Bullet?? What on God's green earth are you saying here? I can promise you, that the bullet you're calling slow moving, moves VASTLY faster than Bucky can punch.

Nah he caught it. Did you ever read the comic. There he had no glove and caught the bullet. The did the movie, and somehow they made him.. what.... just have it hit his hand? Come on King, that makes no sense. It wasn't 30 seconds either, but whatever.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
"Slow Moving" Bullet?? What on God's green earth are you saying here? I can promise you, that the bullet you're calling slow moving, moves VASTLY faster than Bucky can punch.

Nah he caught it. Did you ever read the comic. There he had no glove and caught the bullet. The did the movie, and somehow they made him.. what.... just have it hit his hand? Come on King, that makes no sense. It wasn't 30 seconds either, but whatever.

The bullet is slow in comparison to modern day, and hell slightly futuristic automatic weaponry that is present in the Marvel movies. You could have someone fire that revolver at a target. And have someone fire any of the rifles shot at Bucky. Guarantee if you record them, the rifle rounds hit loads faster every single time.

And yes, the single bullet does move faster than Bucky can punch. And the multiple bullets from the automatic assault rifles fired at Bucky move faster than Ozy can punch. What's your point?

I read the comic. In the comic it's far more impressive because he doesn't have a bulletproof glove. He threw his hand in the way, got hit, closed his hand, spun/fell, etc... "Catch" and "closed his hand after the bullet hit it" aren't the same thing.

And you're right, it wasn't 30 seconds. It was closer to 10. But for a genius like Ozy, having an emotional woman who has no skill shooting guns aim at you for 10 seconds in the place she's going to shoot. I'd say that helped him a fair bit.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So let me get your stance clear here though. Cause I'm a bit confused on what exactly you're saying Big Rob. Are you saying the showings I mentioned don't count and that regular humans can't block blows from his arm? Seems like you're calling those low showings or some form of PIS. I'm just trying to wrap my head around exactly what your stance is here. I mean, if it was just one time and one person was able to, sure we can call that an anomaly. However, when multiple do it, it no longer become that, and instead becomes evidence. Maybe not complete evidence, but evidence none the less.

Now, that said, I agree that Ozy would eventually get worn down by having to block repeated blows form that arm. It's just not a good idea to get hit by it, even if you're blocking. No argument there mane.

Black Window being able to block him with little effort is PIS, considering his arm easily overpowered Cap's arm out of a headlock, among its other high-end feats. That's what I'm saying.

I have a question for KT: Do you think Ozy can beat BP w/ suit?