Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
The only person that thinks Ozy wins is KT. Everyone else knows the truth. Winter Soldier is more durable, stronger and a better fighter by far. There is nothing Ozy can do except die.
You believe that KT is capable of thought? you're giving him a lot of unearned credit.
Originally posted by Silent MasterHe can't because the only person Ozy beat soundly was an old washed up Comedian. Everyone Ozy fought were just humans. WS tangos with Meta-humans (Cap and BP) and holds his own.
By all means post clips that show Ozy's fighting skill and speed and then we'll do the same for WS and we'll see who is actually better.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're lying about people refuting my points. Never happened. You attempted to "try" briefly, but failed. Inhuman tried for a bit and failed. He couldn't refute my last post at all, and my post proves that. So no, nobody did any such thing, and if you go back and look at the thread, you'll see the same thing. The whole discussion started with me saying Cap is above WS, you seemingly disagreed. Hence the discussion. Now, when you talk about it, you act like you agreed with me the whole time LOL. It's honestly hilarious
Pretty much everyone in this threas other than Omega has been disagreeing and refuting your points. Just because you *think* they failed does not mean they actually did fail.
On a physical level, I don't consider Cap superior than WS since none of them overpowers the other nor is visibly faster. We can make a case that Cap is more skilled based on his win ratio, but it's not such a huge gap since everytime the two have fought it has always been very close. Cap even lost 1 fight against Bucky.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Pretty much everyone in this threas other than Omega has been disagreeing and refuting your points. Just because you *think* they failed does not mean they actually did fail.On a physical level, I don't consider Cap superior than WS since none of them overpowers the other nor is visibly faster. We can make a case that Cap is more skilled based on his win ratio, but it's not such a huge gap since everytime the two have fought it has always been very close. Cap even lost 1 fight against Bucky.
They did no such thing, not one person. You claiming they did, doesn't make it so, see how that works? The fact of the matter is, if you look at the points, nothing was refuted at all. For Christ sake you even agree Cap is on another level to Bucky when it comes to physical combat and formidability. Which is all I ever said, and it's a fact based on feats.
Further, no Bucky never beat Cap at all. If somebody throws somebody throw a Window... or a wall.. or a door and then leaves... They didn't win. They BFR'd themselves if anything. Cap was perfectly capable of continuing the fight, Bucky left, that isn't a Bucky win bud. NO way no how.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
They did no such thing, not one person. You claiming they did, doesn't make it so, see how that works? The fact of the matter is, if you look at the points, nothing was refuted at all. For Christ sake you even agree Cap is on another level to Bucky when it comes to physical combat and formidability. Which is all I ever said, and it's a fact based on feats.Further, no Bucky never beat Cap at all. If somebody throws somebody throw a Window... or a wall.. or a door and then leaves... They didn't win. They BFR'd themselves if anything. Cap was perfectly capable of continuing the fight, Bucky left, that isn't a Bucky win bud. NO way no how.
Cap was briefly knocked out from his elevator fall. If you don't think that's a win for WS then Cap also never beat WS nor did BP ever win against WS.
And if you don't see how everyone here is arguing against your points... either you're blind or delusional. Evryone from Silent to KingD to Quan to even Rob has been debating against your points.
Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
He can't because the only person Ozy beat soundly was an old washed up Comedian. Everyone Ozy fought were just humans. WS tangos with Meta-humans (Cap and BP) and holds his own.
Only that is not true. I've already proven the guys Ozy beat have at least meta level durability. At a minimum. Nite-Owl was pretty clearly meta himself when it comes to skill level. So if he's that level skill wise, and durability wise... well... I'd say Ozy did better than you initially suggested. The facts are these:
1. BW (human as you claim) was able to parry and counter his arm. If she can, Ozy can, and easier. Shit the first time they met, she was able to get the jump on him, and disarm him momentarily.
2. Clint (human) was competing in h2h with a BP in his suit. The same BP was able to casually block WS bionic arm in or out of his suit. He even caught a punch out of his suit. Points is BP generally and without question got the better of most of their fights. He clearly looked more skilled. Yet a human could compete with a meta as you call him. Again, if Client fought Ozy one v one... I wouldn't expect much of a fight really. Ozy would win, and do so decisively.
Point is, if BW can block his punches, Ozy should have no issue doing so. Then we're left with:
1. Ozy is without question faster than Bucky, and frankly it's not all that close
2. Ozy is more skilled than Bucky, and again, it's not all that close
3. Ozy has just as good of, if not better, striking power feats as Bucky. Point being, he can hurt Bucky and no doubt stun him
3. Ozy reactions poop all over Bucky
4. Ozy intelligence poops all over Bucky. He's a hyper genius. The smartest guy on the planet. Like a Reed Richards who can kick ass. He'd instantly formulate a game plan to beat Bucky. You think if they square of Ozy's intelligence won't come into play? Please
5. Ozy has jumping feats better than Bucky. Illustrating he's no mere human himself. No human can send people flying the way he does, pick up grown men casually the way he does, can react to bullets the way he does. He's well above human himself, which means what? He's gong to have zero issue competing.
Those are the cold hard facts. If you'd to compare striking feats, throwing feats, reactions feats, jumping feats.. we certainly can and you'd lose. Yet somehow you have this misguided notion that WS is superior in every way.
Also, I am not he only person... Arch, Carver, Omega among other have all also argued Ozy wins, and of course does.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Cap was briefly knocked out from his elevator fall. If you don't think that's a win for WS then Cap also never beat WS nor did BP ever win against WS.And if you don't see how everyone here is arguing against your points... either you're blind or delusional. Evryone from Silent to KingD to Quan to even Rob has been debating against your points.
Do you know the difference between refuting and debating. I never claimed we weren't arguing points Froth. That is exactly what we're been doing. Duh. You said they refuted all my points, and that was never done. Ever. That is what you claimed happened and no such thing happened. Yeah, people have been trying to argue against them, cool, that isn't refuting them.
Further Cap did beat Bucky. He easily beat him in the WS. It was so easy at the end, it was painful. Bucky walking into that move was amateurish really. Showing he only has pedestrian h2h combat skills if I'm being overly harsh. Shit even an unarmed Cap was blocking his knife strikes with little issue.
Point is, you even agree Cap is his superior, so why question me when I say that?
No I don't agree that Cap is superior... not in the way you imply anyway. Cap beat Bucky once and Bucky beat Cap once. I personally feel that Cap has more chances of winning repeated encounters, but they're close enough that I won't call Cap "clearly superior" as you originally claimed.
Also, multiple people have refuted your points over and over and over again. You refuse to admit and acknowledge them. That doesn't mean that your points have not been refuted.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Maybe you should look up the word unanimous
I have shown you evidence and disputed everyone of your points and you just ignore them and want to assume or use imagination scenarios instead of what was shown in the films.
Ive shown Bucky is more skilled, faster fighting speed, stronger, etc.
All you have shown is assumptions and nothing to show from actual movie feats.
Anyhow im just wasting my time , thats why im not even debating this anymore.
Originally posted by Inhuman
I have shown you evidence and disputed everyone of your points and you just ignore them and want to assume or use imagination scenarios instead of what was shown in the films.
Ive shown Bucky is more skilled, faster fighting speed, stronger, etc.
All you have shown is assumptions and nothing to show from actual movie feats.Anyhow im just wasting my time , thats why im not even debating this anymore.
You've shown nothing of the sort. You certainly haven't shown he has more skill. In fact, he's been out-skilled nearly all the time he's fought somebody with skill. Even your buddy Froth doesn't believe Bucky is more skilled, well, because he's not. You'd think people beating him skill wise would make it obvious, but if that wasn't enough, even skilled humans can parry and counter his blows with his arms.
You THINK you've shown faster speed, but that also couldn't be further from the truth. I've shown you the fastest fighting speed feat by far. Exponentially faster in fact. Your argument of well I didn't see him move that fast while punching isn't proof. Absence of proof isn't proof. What we do know is two things:
1. if you can have your arm at your side when a shot is fired, and you can move your arm fast enough to catch said bullet. Well, you can move your arm that fast. Period, end of story. There is no other logical deduction that can be made. Just because he wasn't shown blocking at that speed doesn't mean he can't. Logic tells us he unquestionably could, and even easier than the bullet catching feat
A. What's even worse is.. it's like seeing Cap lift a car easily, and then go, well I've never seen him bench scooter over his head. Then go yeah, they are different objects and sizes. Umm no, if he can lift a car he can lift a damn scooter. Period end of story.
2. You next claim that you can visually see him punch that fast. Again that isn't proof. You were able to visually see his arm move to catch the bullet. If the director wanted to be totally mindful of the speed there... we would have seen nothing. It would've been a complete blur. Hmmmmm So if his arm was moving that fast and we saw it... why when he's punching and blocking later, and we see it also, do you go... yeah see that is much slower WTF LMAO. That makes zero sense. In both cases you saw his arm move... how the f are you saying one looked faster than the other?
A. The other obvious elephant in the room is, why on God's Green Earth did he even need to move faster. If you see a grown man beat up a 10 year old, and easily so. Would you be critical he wasn't moving fast enough or technical enough? When you see the Greenbay Packers blow out the bears by running the ball down their throats... do you go... well you should've passed more to really show your overall skills... WTF. no, there was no need. Same thing here, they didn't even land a single blow on him. Not one. Why would he need to move any faster. You'd have an argument if they did land something. They landed nothing, and he would turn his back and talk the entire time while doing so... yet you wanted to see him move faster? That's laughable really.
See you call your points refuting mine, and they've done no such thing. You have zero answers for what I just presented, none. You claim to have the better feats, but that is entirely false.