Originally posted by KingD19
So Ozy could put up a decent fight against Panther or Cap?Also toying with a guy who can't avoid having a chair tossed at him isn't that great.
Like I said Bud, the feats are DIRECTLY in Ozy's column. No amount of nah... I don't like it... no way's is going to change that. The reality is, Ozy is simply more skilled and simply better in more areas. His striking power means Bucky can be put down, and put down he would be.
I didn't say it was more or less.... What I said was, his striking power means he can hurt him. BP hurt him with strikes, Cap hurt him with strikes. Shit, he was choked out easily at that. What I'm saying is, Ozy being able to send people flying the way he does means his strikes would do the same. As you'll notice earlier, the force required to kick somebody in the head (while they are on the ground) and send them flying 15 feet would take incredible striking power to do. You've seen regular humans soccer kick people... they barely go anywhere. No imagine sending somebody flying from one... yeah, he was the power to hurt Bucky, and would do so.
You said Ozy has striking feats that are as good as Bucky, which is 100% incorrect.
You do realize that T'Challa and Steve are both legitimate super humans yes? Saying that that they can hurt him, and then just assuming Ozymandias can do the same is some kind of ass backwards ABC logic. You're grouping Ozy, with three guys who can outrun cars going full speed down a highway. Plus, not only can Bucky match Steve's strength, he can handily overpower him with his mechanical arm.
Oh, cool man, Ozy can send a person flying with a kick? Steve and Bucky can do that shit with a backhand. They send 2,000 pound cars flying with kicks.
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Ozy catches bullets from 6 feet away.
How does bucky punch faster than a bullet?
He doesn't. He will however throw way more punches and kicks than a single bullet. Are you going to tell me Ozy can block and evade all of them? Because if that's your claim then I'd like some proof please.
I'm honestly still confused as to how Bucky throwing his hand up(and blocking a barrage of bullets from different soldiers all with his arm, some of them from less than six feet away, with faster bullets and far more of them) is aim-dodging, while Ozy got 10 seconds or so of Spectre aiming at him and saying, "You're such an *******", to get ready to catch her single bullet.
Which is definitely slower than assault rifle rounds, isn't aim-dodging somehow. I can post the fps bullet numbers since KT doesn't seem to want to believe that higher velocity/higher caliber/more advanced rounds mean they are shot out faster, and the assault rifles are far more advanced than that old school 38. special.
And, he was blocking tons of hits from Rorscharch and Nite-Owl, even blocking hits from Comedian. All of whom were physically inferior to him. When he tries to block the hits of a guy who can launch people thirty feet with a kick, and down a stairwell, through a stone wall with a jab, and punch a car off the road, and rip out of high tech restraints, and overpower Cap and Iron-Man, etc... It's gonna hurt. A lot. Plus prove anyone Ozy fought was near the fighting speed of Cap/BP/Bucky.
Honestly King, this last post was just a bad attempt at trying to debate a topic. You're better than this. Show me where I claimed a higher caliber rifle doesn't shoot faster? I never said any such thing. What I did say and a 100% fact, he speed it would take to catch a bullet, with your arm still at your side after it was fired, and you were still able to raise your arm fast enough to catch. YES 100000000% requires faster reactions speed than blocking high caliber fire. What's worse, it's blatant aim blocking at its finest, which further reduces the speed needed.
Think about it, if you raise your arm before shots are fired, and your arm stays stationary, and yet all the bullets hit your arm; how much speed did that take? You're trying to give WS credit for piss poor shooting? A fing 5 year old kid would know to aim lower maybe? It's more of a holy shit your bad at shooting showing than anything else.
To be fair, I'll call it skill to execute the move and likely knowing where they'd likely shoot. Cool, but to even try and compare it to the speed Ozy displayed is laughable King and you know it.
You're also totally wrong about blocking at how it is portrayed in movies. Blocking requires skill and precision to pull off. Ever watch a new or old martial arts movie, and see a guy blocking everything another formidable foe is throwing? What do you think? You go damn, that guy has some skills. Blocking negates power, and this is true in real life and in movies. Granted, in movies it can be overblown a bit, but the premise remains the same. If you're skilled enough, you can beat a big strong tough brute. Not always, but often times when the skilled losses, he was still winning on "points" and looking superior before the IT thing happens. Points being, skill i.e. blocking trumps power. We see this time and time again. Even in this damn movie and the previous ones, skilled people can and do block him. For example:
1. BW (below Ozy in virtually every way) has blocked and parried his arm. How? Skill, that's how, and it's a common theme. You can say you don't like it, and it shouldn't be, but you do have to give some leeway to skill and what it can overcome.
2. In that same vein, Hawkeye, he was able to compete with a BP in his suit. We're talking about the same BP who routinely, and sometimes easily outskills bucky. How can a human do that? Well again, by being badass and skilled. He couldn't beat BP, nor should he, but he clearly displayed he can hang.
3. IM, and again, not in his suit was able to block and parry one one of his arm strikes. Again, again not even known for his h2h skills, and especially out of his suit.
You like to focus on Bucky punching concrete and doors, and other innate objects without skill or a mind of their own. They aren't defecting power via technique and physics, yet skill blocking does negate a lot of force, just as it would in real life. Even using Cap as an example, when hit, he can be sent to the ground or sort of flying. While blocking, he's standing in the pocket and having no issue blocking them. Same thing we see with every other skilled person. You just have to accept the fact that Ozy can block his shots and would, just as lesser people have.
You act like every time bucky punched somebody they turned to paste, they didn't. Bucky doesn't send people flying further with punches or throws than Ozy. We've gone over this before and Ozy feats of punching people compare very favorably with Bucky. So does his throws as you know. His jumps are superior to anything Bucky displayed. So are his reactions. So what does that tell us King? Do tell me?
That Ozy is alos superhuman, just as Bucky is and Cap is. Obviously there are varying degrees of it. But Ozy can't be superior or comparable in the same areas of a "superhuman" and not be one himself. That would defy the very term. So are you saying Ozy is a normal human?
If you're saying, he has qualities of a superhuman, which I think you've said; then how can he not be able to win? He's fast enough, strong enough, enough striking power, throwing power, skill and reactions that say he can.. yet cause Bucky can punch concrete hard he can't? LOL. Okay bud
I don't think Ozy was ever hit when fighting non-superhumans. Bucky however does get hit, as his fight against BW and Agent 13 showed.
However, it should be noted that Bucky takes out all of his non-superhuman opponents far faster than Ozy took out his. We can say he was somewhat toying with Rosch and NO but that excuse doesn't work with his fight against Comedian... and Comedian was a single opponent.
What does this tell us? Ozy's defense is awesome but he seems to he lacking in offense. On the other hand, Bucky's defense does seem to need a bit of work but his offense is awesome. But then again, Bucky's durability is high enough that he can afford to eat shots.
In the end, it all boils down to the fact that Ozy doesn't really have amy h2h feats to compare to Bucky's. We can debate about guns and bullets all day long but that won't matter squat here because it's a h2h match.
Originally posted by FrothByte
He doesn't. He will however throw way more punches and kicks than a single bullet. Are you going to tell me Ozy can block and evade all of them? Because if that's your claim then I'd like some proof please.
The fact he toyed with all of his opponents and not be hit once while monologuing that were very serious shows considerable speed.
Buck took out guys with the intention to kill fast as possible and was hit doing so
Buck only real reason he wins here is he won't tire.
Ozy will evade his punches pretty easily... unless buck can grow 4 arms and four legs... then punch faster than a bullet to boot
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
The fact he toyed with all of his opponents and not be hit once while monologuing that were very serious shows considerable speed.Buck took out guys with the intention to kill fast as possible and was hit doing so
Buck only real reason he wins here is he won't tire.
Ozy will evade his punches pretty easily... unless buck can grow 4 arms and four legs... then punch faster than a bullet to boot
Ozy didn't "toy" with Comedian though. He was there to kill Comedian and yet was unable to do so quickly. Sure he didn't get hit, but then again Comedian, Rosch and NO are all below Ozy's stats. All below Bucky's stats.
So there is no proof that Ozy can avoid all of Bucky's hits simply because he's never gone up against an opponent as strong and as fast as Bucky is.
His opponents weren't anything special though. That's a point Ozy's defense seems to be neglecting to take into account. Take Cap for instance. If he had been as uncaring about people as Ozy was, he would have killed Batroc in one hit.
He would kill everyone under his own level in a hit or two. Not beat them up. Murder them. Bucky would "explode" people as well, if it wasn't a PG-13 Disney movie. You honestly think they'll let him turn people to paste in a mostly family movie? Quicksilver got hit with a vulcan cannon and should have been sawed in half. But he just had a few bullet holes and red splotches on his outfit.
And I don't know if it speaks more for their own durability or Ozy's lack of strength, but NO, Comedian(in his bath robe and piss drunk) and Rorscharch kept coming at him for quite a while and took a ton of hits. He didn't even put any of them down. He threw Comedian out a window, and Rorscharch and Nite-Owl were seemingly completely fine before his tigers showed up. They just casually followed him up the stairs.
Also gonna point out again. Outfighting a guy who can't dodge a slow as* chair lobbed through the air at him isn't really impressive.