Ozymandias vs. Winter Soldier (h2h)

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I don't think some ppl saying "it was 10 feet" is superior proof to the evidence via a diagram that I posted (w/c showed it closer to 30 or 20? feet, I think, whatever the diagram showed, I can't remember. Just follow the diagram.). Plus I don't even recall who said that at all, can you quote them pls (was it OS?)?

I... don't recall ever saying the head kick "feat" having "much greater force". I might be getting old tho, so would you mind quoting me where I said that?

I would reckon that what I probably said that the head kick would require more force to propel the victim the same distance vs the chest kick (w/c is true) due to the loss of force (or is it inertia?) when the head is cocked to the side. But that is countered by the implication that the other kick propelled the victim much further. Which means (at best) that the comparison would be apples and oranges between the two due to the fact that the kick to the head would lose quite a bit of the force applied (as, like I said, the head accelerating to the side would dissipate some of the force of the kick). Essentially, higher difficulty vs much better results.

At best, that would mean that neither "feat" can quantifiably be compared to the other as we don't know how much force was lost when Ror's head was cocked to the side as someone needs to do the complex math behind it.

I'm not sure tho, that debate was a long time ago, so I might need a refresher. Seriously, I don't remember like 70% of the things you guys are arguing here and half the things I said or posted. This thread is THAT old. 😛

Tho, reading you reply carefully, I think that's also what you're saying here but I fail to see how you can use this as an example of you presenting irrefutable "facts". At best, you presented a theory that can't be refuted due to lack of evidence caused by the lack of ppl able (or willing) to do the complex physics behind it. But as with all theories, the burden of proof is actually on you (show us the math) before it becomes "fact".

You said exactly what I was saying Bud, and exactly what you said before. You can't really compare them, because one didn't travel as far, but required more force than the kick where they traveled further. So it becomes apples to organs and very hard to gauge. That was my exact point. He said all of MY points were REFUTED, and then cited this as an example of my points being refuted. To which I correctly pointed out, no my point wasn't refuted. There being some doubt on who's was actually superior or it being tough to quantify each, isn't refuting my point. So as you can see, I wasn't making the claim that I refuted your points, I was correctly pointing out that, my point wasn't refuted. At best, they are hard to quantify against one another. I can accept that, but that isn't refuting my point.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You said exactly what I was saying Bud, and exactly what you said before. You can't really compare them, because one didn't travel as far, but required more force than the kick where they traveled further. So it becomes apples to organs and very hard to gauge. That was my exact point. He said all of MY points were REFUTED, and then cited this as an example of my points being refuted. To which I correctly pointed out, no my point wasn't refuted. There being some doubt on who's was actually superior or it being tough to quantify each, isn't refuting my point. So as you can see, I wasn't making the claim that I refuted your points, I was correctly pointing out that, my point wasn't refuted. At best, they are hard to quantify against one another. I can accept that, but that isn't refuting my point.

I think the better way to say it would be "because one didn't travel as far but would require more force to travel the same distance...". That way we can't confuse the meaning of your sentence as you stating that Ozy's kick was better. 😛

But yeah, that would be a fair assessment, actually. I always consider statements where one side claims victory over the other in a debate or sweeping claims where one side states that he/they refuted all claims of the opposing side of a debate as more of a statement of antagonistic rhetoric that it is a factual statement anyway. 😛

Truth is with this thread, I think everyone's stated all their facts already and it just has become circular at this point. At this point if one side hasn't convinced the other of their logic, then I don't see how another 100 pages of the same arguments being rehashed can change anything.

KT embarrassed again. Could never claim Cap or Superman murdered anyone and now he cant prove Ozy beats WS.

Don't mind T.I. Nib he's doing his raging pouting thing again.

Raging you mean like this? And still got owned?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What sort of nonsense is this? You're making a faulty comparison, and frankly, it's not a good example. A punch is not analogous with a gun. There are different in so many ways it's hilarious. So your comparison has already failed.

Further, doing something to deceive your foe again is not analogous to blocking punches. One was done to make the other drop their guard. Which is exactly what they did exactly how he planned. Just like in the comic. To say nothing of the above, which aren't comparable. He was clearly okay, he was smirking, I mean really? You like he was KO'd by that? lol

Then we are further left with that fact that when Ozy is engaging in h2h combat. He blocks punches, he doesn't magically fall down the stairs, smirk, drop your had for dramatic effect slowly. In every instance, when people engage him in h2h combat, he's blocking and countering with great skill and speed. The above is why I don't even understand why you're trying to push a non point. We are simply left with the above and there is no getting around these facts

Ozy is decisively faster in arm movement

Ozy is decisively smarter than Bucky, in fact, I'd even say exponentially. It's that wide a gap. Needless to say, being the smartest guy on the planet would certainly help you in any combat situation; especially when you have all of the feats and levels mentioned in this post

Ozy is decisively better at blocking punches in h2h combat

Ozy has decisively better perceptions and reactions that Bucky

Ozy has jumped further, both height and lengthy, appearing to have no running start

Ozy has very comparable feats of striking power, and in fact, superior feats of hitting people further.

Ozy has very comparable feats of throwing people, and again, I would argue slightly superior. Not by much if at all but even.

Ozy has clearly demonstrated more skill in h2h combat than Bucky. By this is mean, when you see somebody fight, in the movies or real life. When you see somebody casually, blocking peak human level skill people. People we've seen beat the crap out of people. If we ever in real life saw somebody smirking, laughing, joking around while fighting two badass dudes. We'd be like holy shit!!! That is the best display of skill I've ever seen. It wasn't flashy it wasn't OMG flips, it was just a casual stroll in the park. Yet sending these dudes flying, in such a casual state. That is what he did. They didn't land a single punch on him. Guys clearly some of the best of the best humanity had to offer in skill. Yet they were clowned.

how does that compare with mostly in the end winning against these elite skill level guys i.e. BW, Agent 13, IM out of his suit, Hawkeye etc etc. In movie after movie they landed blows on him or got the jump on him. Sure he won, but which looks better? I mean really, come on, we know the answer.

Now, all of the above points us to what? Ozy clearly has superhuman traits and characteristics. If we're calling Bucky superhuman, okay, well if somebody matches those feats and in some greatly exceeds, there can be no other name. It seems some of you, not all, some think Ozy isn't that level. I've seen people who think WS wins admit Ozy must be if Bucky is.

So now that we establish that, you'd have to believe that Bucky's arm would be too much for Ozy. Well that doesn't really work for me. Not only would Ozy be the faster in h2h combat, but he's also better blocker and counter puncher. Clearly so. So he's going to be landing more, and getting his considerably less. We've seen what his blows can do, he's sending him flying or back, there can be no other way. Thus the arm is already negated.

However, even then, it still might tire you down eventually, sure, you can't just keep blocking it all day. However, with Ozy clear striking power and speed advantage, I don't see that being much of an issue. Bucky has been put to sleep, Ozy hasn't. Further, we seen people like BW, IM out of his suit, hawkeye against BP (you know the story). They can all counter these guys in spots. Showing even regular humans can block the arm. Ozy is no regular human, nor is he as slow as them, they might as well be snails. I mean honestly, Bucky isn't the most skilled guy to begin with, how much is he really landing? On Ozy? Yeah not a lot.

These are the facts guys, and they are backed up on screen. You may not like them, and you make try and say Bucky has the slight advantage. But in the end, Ozy has decisively better things, and comparable ones. Very few he's inferior. Accept it, and set your soul free, or please response and tell me which points are wrong

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
The only person that thinks Ozy wins is KT. Everyone else knows the truth. Winter Soldier is more durable, stronger and a better fighter by far. There is nothing Ozy can do except die.

👆

But he said everyone was wrong but him.

I like how one of KT'S main arguments is that Ozy fights at bullet-time speeds, yet he hasn't posted a single clip of Ozy actually doing so.

He never posts clips or uses proof to back any claims.

He posts his flawed/bias opinion to judge screen feats, then claims everyone else is wrong with actual screen feats.

The Buffoonery continues. Let me guess, the clownshoes known as Silent, asked for scans LOL. The scans have been posted NUMEROUS times in this very thread and by me. I'm only referencing 3 incidents... Ozy fighting RO and NO.. posted previously. Ozy fighting the comedian... AGAIN posted previously. Ozy catching a bullet, AGAIN posted already. Shit I even posted the assassination clip, but didn't reference that in my post. Point is, all these have already been referenced in this thread and others. Yet I need to hear buffoonery about not posting clips LOL. Chalk up another loss for T.I. and Silent, clips have been posted by me and others in this thread and in countless other threads.

It's like you referencing the Oil Rig feat, and me going, post the clip. Why would I do that? I know that damn clip, seen in numerous times, and its been posted numerous times. Yet, this is the type of tom foolery going on now, and it's been posted. Game, set, match

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think the better way to say it would be "because one didn't travel as far but would require more force to travel the same distance...". That way we can't confuse the meaning of your sentence as you stating that Ozy's kick was better. 😛

But yeah, that would be a fair assessment, actually. I always consider statements where one side claims victory over the other in a debate or sweeping claims where one side states that he/they refuted all claims of the opposing side of a debate as more of a statement of antagonistic rhetoric that it is a factual statement anyway. 😛

Truth is with this thread, I think everyone's stated all their facts already and it just has become circular at this point. At this point if one side hasn't convinced the other of their logic, then I don't see how another 100 pages of the same arguments being rehashed can change anything.

Couldn't agree more. That is pretty much how it should be viewed and what we were trying to say. I was basically correctly Froth saying my point was refuted.

I also agree on things getting circular bud, and it's true, it kind of has become that way. That said bud, my points do exceed the counter points, and frankly they are hard to dispute 😛 Hope all is well Nib

Your points were refuted. You just didn't accept them. And to be honest, I don't mind you not accepting them. You're entitled to your own opinion after all. What irritates me is how you seem to be under the impression that only your points are valid whereas everyone else here is wrong.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Your points were refuted. You just didn't accept them. And to be honest, I don't mind you not accepting them. You're entitled to your own opinion after all. What irritates me is how you seem to be under the impression that only your points are valid whereas everyone else here is wrong.

You'll also notice how I stated that KT has been unable to post a clip of Ozy fighting at bullet-time speed and KT responds by stating that he's posted multiple fight scenes. Only he ignores the fact that none the scenes he is referencing show bullet-time fighting speed.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Don't mind T.I. Nib he's doing his raging pouting thing again.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The Buffoonery continues. Let me guess, the clownshoes known as Silent, asked for scans LOL. The scans have been posted NUMEROUS times in this very thread and by me. I'm only referencing 3 incidents... Ozy fighting RO and NO.. posted previously. Ozy fighting the comedian... AGAIN posted previously. Ozy catching a bullet, AGAIN posted already. Shit I even posted the assassination clip, but didn't reference that in my post. Point is, all these have already been referenced in this thread and others. Yet I need to hear buffoonery about not posting clips LOL. Chalk up another loss for T.I. and Silent, clips have been posted by me and others in this thread and in countless other threads.

It's like you referencing the Oil Rig feat, and me going, post the clip. Why would I do that? I know that damn clip, seen in numerous times, and its been posted numerous times. Yet, this is the type of tom foolery going on now, and it's been posted. Game, set, match

Look at this buffoon.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Your points were refuted. You just didn't accept them. And to be honest, I don't mind you not accepting them. You're entitled to your own opinion after all. What irritates me is how you seem to be under the impression that only your points are valid whereas everyone else here is wrong.

His mom could tell him he is wrong, and he would tell her to eff off.

See this is why it's tough discussing things with you, because you're incorrect in how you're recounting events. You said my points were refuted. No such thing happened. The person you're claiming refuted my points, came back to the thread, and agreed that isn't the proper term to use for what happened. It wasn't refuted. There is a dispute on which was the stronger strike, as they are hard to compare because they are different. That by no means refuting. Should I post the definition for you? If you refute something you PROVE it wrong with facts. That is what happened. here. It wasn't proven wrong. There is only some questions about which was better, as they are hard to compare. That isn't proving me wrong, I still very much could be correct on that point. Yet you claim otherwise, even after the guy you claim refuted straight out says it wasn't.

Tell you what... I'm going to go one by one with the points I brought up... I want you to refute them, since you claim it's easy to do. Totally false by the way, but let's see

First one

Ozy is decisively faster in arm movement

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

Ozy is decisively faster in arm movement

Acknowledged. Now my turn:

Bucky is decisively faster in combat.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Acknowledged. Now my turn:

Bucky is decisively faster in combat.

Doesn't work that way. I'll get to your points after. You said ALL of mine were refuted. Yet here, you acknowledge my statement was in fact correct and not refuted. See what I mean? How could all my points be refuted, when you just said Acknowledged already? That's what I mean Froth, at least be truthful and not disingenuous when having these talks. Cool next point. Please refute this. Again, I'm sure you have some disagreements with some of them, and you agree with others. I think that is the case. But when I see you claim all my points were refuted, well that, that isn't actually the case is it. You agree with some of my points, you just don't think they give Ozy the victory. That is the fact of the matter But to hear you talk, it's like non of my points are factual and they are all wrong, and you know that isn't the case.

As I said, I'll go one by one to your points, but first you said my points have all be refuted and I expected that to be dealt with first. Then I have no issue going one by one for your points, and we'll see where we stand.

Next point. True or False '

Ozy is decisively smarter than Bucky, in fact, I'd even say exponentially. It's that wide a gap. Needless to say, being the smartest guy on the planet would certainly help you in any combat situation; especially when you have all of the feats and levels mentioned in this post

I'll say this about KT, he's dedicated.

Dedicated to losing and being a buffoon.

😂