Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
While ducking behind the people he hated for cover.
Ah right, slightly different to how I remember.
That speed portrayal is very iffy. On one hand he seems to be moving as fast as the bullet is exploding through that guy's head, but then the very next instant you see people moving in the background at the same speed as him.
I don't see people moving faster than him in that scene. He was clearly avoiding the bullets, while others couldn't. So to claim people were moving as fast as him, can't be true. Further, in the book, he believe he threw an ash tray to block a bullet before disarming him. Point is, he later showed how fast he was when he caught the bullet. This scene just further reinforces the idea. Look at the link I posted on the previous page DT. Tell me, at the :21 second mark... why did they put a swooshing motion when ozy turns around real fast. It seems Froth believe things like that and other things don't show the director trying to illustrate that he's fast. To me, it couldn't be more clear.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I don't see people moving faster than him in that scene. He was clearly avoiding the bullets, while others couldn't. So to claim people were moving as fast as him, can't be true. Further, in the book, he believe he threw an ash tray to block a bullet before disarming him. Point is, he later showed how fast he was when he caught the bullet. This scene just further reinforces the idea. Look at the link I posted on the previous page DT. Tell me, at the :21 second mark... why did they put a swooshing motion when ozy turns around real fast. It seems Froth believe things like that and other things don't show the director trying to illustrate that he's fast. To me, it couldn't be more clear.
So turning around with a swooshing effect makes you real fast? And it somehow negates the fact that every single time Ozy fought, he moves slower than WS?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That isn't refuting Froth, and it's a piss poor response to be honest. The only way you could claim Ozy couldn't punch faster than Bucky, is if Ozy wasn't adept at punching people or had punch people. Then I could say, yeah he wouldn't be as fast or as decisive because he doesn't know how to punch or fight and PROEPERLY use said speed. Difference here is, Ozy absolutely knows how to punch and punch well. He knows exactly what goes into a punch, and better than Bucky based on skill level. Yet you're still going to go... yeah... bucky can punch faster. That is totally illogical. Not one person besides Rage Mode had even backed up your stance. They also know it defies logic and common sense.Further, even if we go under the guise of he can't punch as fast as he can move his arm to catch a bullet. It's not quite as fast. I don't have much of an issue, because there is more involved. However, thanks to his arm being able to move faster than Bucky's, he can be slower than those speeds and still be faster than Bucky. Which again, is why it's so perplexing to see your made the statements you did. Further, even if you wrongly believe Ozy can punch faster, he'd still be able to move his arm up to block punches vastly faster than Bucky can even throw them. So how exactly is Bucky landing more than Ozy? Inhuman thinks WS wins, and he's said so. We've gone back and forth on this who wins. He even admits Ozy a speed advantage over WS. Yet here, you won't even admit that. Yet you claim it's hard talking with me? Please. You already admitted Ozy had faster arm movement, then because you know my next statement was undoubtedly true, and that would make 2/2 points that weren't refuted so far, after you claimed all of mine were. So you then changed your stance once you realized you were eating your words about all my points being refuted.
Let me ask you, when you see Ozy simply quickly turning around to deal with Nite-Owl before throwing the chair :21
What was with the swooshing noise just from him turning around. Let me guess , that couldn't have been a noise to indicate fast movement, the director just wanted a swoosh sound as he's moving for funhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnGA8uu8T0
I'm still waiting for an answer to my next question.
Dude, we've talked about your walls of texts before. Most of us aren't interested in wading through that.
Anyway, you want proof of Ozy not punching faster than WS? Simple. He never displays it. Yes he knows how to punch, yet you'll NEVER see him punch at the same speed necessary to catch a bullet. Heck I've seen heavyweights punch faster than him.
Before we move forward I want to get something clear: Do you or do you not think punching speed is solely dependent on how fast you can move your arm?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I don't see people moving faster than him in that scene. He was clearly avoiding the bullets, while others couldn't. So to claim people were moving as fast as him, can't be true. Further, in the book, he believe he threw an ash tray to block a bullet before disarming him. Point is, he later showed how fast he was when he caught the bullet. This scene just further reinforces the idea. Look at the link I posted on the previous page DT. Tell me, at the :21 second mark... why did they put a swooshing motion when ozy turns around real fast. It seems Froth believe things like that and other things don't show the director trying to illustrate that he's fast. To me, it couldn't be more clear.
Avoiding bullets by ducking behind others? it could not be more clear you buffoon.
Originally posted by FrothByte
So turning around with a swooshing effect makes you real fast? And it somehow negates the fact that every single time Ozy fought, he moves slower than WS?
It can do. They do it with The Flash sometimes. When he was punching Reverse Flash multiple times he was honestly punching at normal speeds, but they just had lines behind the punches. But when you're caught in the moment you don't notice.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Dude, we've talked about your walls of texts before. Most of us aren't interested in wading through that.Anyway, you want proof of Ozy not punching faster than WS? Simple. He never displays it. Yes he knows how to punch, yet you'll NEVER see him punch at the same speed necessary to catch a bullet. Heck I've seen heavyweights punch faster than him.
Before we move forward I want to get something clear: Do you or do you not think punching speed is solely dependent on how fast you can move your arm?
Only that isn't proof of a single thing. How many times do I need to tell you, absence of proof isn't proof. You claim you've never seen him punch that fast, that isn't proof at all. We know he can move his arm vastly faster than Bucky, so tell me, why would he be able to punch faster than him? Explain your logic to me.
Second, I've already covered the "not" appearing to be as fast. This was already dispelled. He had no reason to move any faster in the h2h scenes. HE WASN'T HIT ONE SINGLE TIME. If and only IF, he was hit a few times could you go, well if he could move faster why didn't he to avoid getting hit. That would be a fair question. Problem is, he was hit ZERO times, thus he absolutely had zero reason to move faster. He clowned them while laughing, and you wanted to see him move faster? WTF. That'd be like watching a 30 year old beat up a 12 year old and go... yeah, well, you could've moved faster. Wtf.. there was zero need to.
Further, I've dispelled that notion by simply illustrating that we could see his arm move to catch the bullet. If that was done to specs, we'd see absolutely nothing but blurry lines. Yet we saw it. The director clearly didn't see the need to be exactly proportionate in his speed scenes to what it would look like in real life. He didn't. He saw no need, and likely wanted to audience to view it. Which is often the case. So tell me, how can you tell his punches were slower if you can see both movements? Explain that logic to me. Why is it so hard for you to accept that the director saw no need to do exactly what it would look like in real life. But clearly, in many ways, he showed us he's very fast. Bullet catch, assassination attempt, catching the knife, dodging Comedians gun fire and moving so fast a trained military commando couldn't track him even when he had 15 to 20 feet space between them (next thing he knew, he was right next to him).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTsFOqSaub8
You'd have to be incredible fast to move so fast, a badass like comedian couldn't even track you
Originally posted by Darth Thor
It can do. They do it with The Flash sometimes. When he was punching Reverse Flash multiple times he was honestly punching at normal speeds, but they just had lines behind the punches. But when you're caught in the moment you don't notice.
Precisely. This is a common theme. Same thing happened in the final Zod vs. Superman fight. We saw all the punches. Yet we know, if humans were actually perceiving their fight, they would see next to nothing. What fun is that for a viewing audience? Did you see the clips I posted Bud? Thoughts?
Originally posted by Darth Thor
It can do. They do it with The Flash sometimes. When he was punching Reverse Flash multiple times he was honestly punching at normal speeds, but they just had lines behind the punches. But when you're caught in the moment you don't notice.
That's because it was implied that Flash and Reverse Flash were moving at superspeed even if they were shown moving in regular speed. But unless Comedian, NO or Roscharch are also capable of moving at superspeed, I don't see how this is applicable to Ozy.
Originally posted by FrothByte
That's because it was implied that Flash and Reverse Flash were moving at superspeed even if they were shown moving in regular speed. But unless Comedian, NO or Roscharch are also capable of moving at superspeed, I don't see how this is applicable to Ozy.
I'm not saying Ozy is faster than a bullet. Just pointing out that there are other ways to suggest fast movement other than everything else moving in slow motion.
Like in the case of Flash or General Zod, what else are lines behind their punches supposed to suggest? Because normal speed punches don't leave those lines. So what the heck are those lines?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Only that isn't proof of a single thing. How many times do I need to tell you, absence of proof isn't proof.
Well following that logic I can also say that Bucky can move his hand just as fast as Ozy did. He just never had reason to do so. Now, you can't refute my claim and still insist on yours because that would make you a hypocrite.
Also you never answered my question: Do you really think that the only movement necessary to make a proper punch is to move your arm?
Originally posted by Darth Thor
I'm not saying Ozy is faster than a bullet. Just pointing out that there are other ways to suggest fast movement other than everything else moving in slow motion.Like in the case of Flash or General Zod, what else are lines behind their punches supposed to suggest? Because normal speed punches don't leave those lines. So what the heck are those lines?
Shockwaves come to mind.
In any case, this doesn't apply to Ozy, as Flash and Zod clearly have superspeed. Unless we are going to consider that Ozy's "swirl" is an indication that he has super speed... then this just bumped the thread up to a whole nother level of stupid.
Originally posted by FrothByte
The SS serum makes Cap be always at his peak physical stats. He doesn't get stronger or faster or more durable.
I don't see how you can even say this, we were never told that much about the serum. Also things like the helicopter feat from the recent movie make me think that yeah Cap has steadily grown stronger since he was thawed out of that ice.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Well following that logic I can also say that Bucky can move his hand just as fast as Ozy did. He just never had reason to do so. Now, you can't refute my claim and still insist on yours because that would make you a hypocrite.Also you never answered my question: Do you really think that the only movement necessary to make a proper punch is to move your arm?
No, the difference is OZY MOVED HIS FING ARM THAT FAST ON SCREEN. PERIOD. WS NEVER WAS SHOWN MOVING HIS ARM THAT FAST DOING ANYTHING. NOTHING. So no, you can't do that. I can, because I have proof of him moving his arm at fast speeds. You have nothing on that level. Are you lacking common sense or something? One is based on a real feat showing him moving that fast. You're claiming, well he wasn't shown moving that fast doing anything, but he still can, he just didn't need to. Those are even remotely close to the same thing.
I never ever made such a claim. What I did say, and what you can't dispute is, OZY can move his arm exceptional fast. Fast enough to catch a bullet after it was fired from 5 feet away and his arms at his side. THAT fast. We also know he's excellent at h2h combat. He knows how to punch, he knows what goes into a punch. If he knows all that, and can move his arm very fast, explain to me how that doesn't equate to his arm movement being faster? There are other things required to punch that can increase power and torque... Torso, Legs and shoulders. However, the majority of what goes into punch speed is arm movement. Those other factors are more for power, technique and being in the correct position with your feet and body to counter. Are you actually claiming other things besides how fast you can move your arm; determine how fast you can punch more than arm movement? Is that actually your claim?
By the way, the question is arm movement. That isn't limited to punching or anything. Now, one more time, who has displayed faster arm movement?
Next, I want an answer to my next statement of fact that you said you refuted. Answer that question. Was I correct or not?
Originally posted by Surtur
I don't see how you can even say this, we were never told that much about the serum. Also things like the helicopter feat from the recent movie make me think that yeah Cap has steadily grown stronger since he was thawed out of that ice.
Don't mind him, I've already disproven that as well.