Aquaman, Namor vs Black Adam

Started by Surtur18 pages

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
It's better logic then comparing Teth to Jay who he's struggling to catch...

Your logic was to use Narration to suggest Teth can movie Lightning fast in terms of speed I simply showed Aquaman being stated to react that fast..

Sure Teth can move at him in those speeds but based on scans Aquaman can react. All you did was post the narrative. It doesn't help that J'onn is there either.

But he actually doesn't react that fast. If you can't see the difference between the two feats I do not know what to tell you. I never said the only thing impressive about the BA feat is the narration of moving like "lightning".

While in your scan the ONLY thing impressive is the word lightning, otherwise it's some dude throwing a crowbar at Aquaman. This is getting kind of silly if you can look at those two feats and go "yeah, very similar".

Originally posted by basilisk
Things like "lightning fast", "quicker than greased lightning", "moved like lightning", "lightning reflexes" etc are just common idioms in the english language. I don't think it is supposed to mean someone like Aquaman is literally able to move at a third or a 100th the speed of light or whatever. If someone in the DC universe says something is "quick as a flash" I don't think they literally mean quick as a Flash.

I've always thought Adam would be much faster than these two and combined with his strength, flight, and durability he would get the win here.

It's one thing to ignore it when there's nothing to back it up its another thing to do so when it's actually there.

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11112/111124701/3973287-3420924-aq_lig%2B1.jpg

Aquaman actually has feats of Dodging cloud to ground lightning from a Flash rogues.

Feats of Superman not being able to react to him in water and said multiple times to be faster or quicker on land which legit makes sense given pressure that's taken off him when on land compared to at sea which at average sea level is 832× more dense then air.

If you want to ignore speed though be honest about it rather then ignoring actual showings.

I agree Pre-Flashpoint Adam on average is stronger it's irrelevant because Aquaman has feats suggesting he can still contend. Flight is irrelevant because Aquaman doesn't even have to fly to tag him.

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Pre-Crisis compared to Superman
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/137442/4556874-8242240702-33783.jpg
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Post-Crisis
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/137442/4557307-0174492496-45572.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/137442/4556866-6366691214-34022.jpg
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Post-Flashpoint there's his charges at characters like Superman and Wonder Woman in the Firestorm Matrix at MMH.

Not being able to touch Jay as a feat and Teth becomes the "Fastest Man Alive" in comics...

Just wow. Nobody said he is the fastest man alive. You don't have to be the fastest man alive to blitz Aquaman. Just looking at your scans..wtf? I don't even know what to say. I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

Originally posted by Surtur
But he actually doesn't react that fast. If you can't see the difference between the two feats I do not know what to tell you. I never said the only thing impressive about the BA feat is the narration of moving like "lightning".

While in your scan the ONLY thing impressive is the word lightning, otherwise it's some dude throwing a crowbar at Aquaman. This is getting kind of silly if you can look at those two feats and go "yeah, very similar".

Yet Martian Manhunter is there as well if it's so unimpressive why doesn't he catch it.. It's kinetic energy building up to go at a certain quick speed.

If that's not impressive at all then there's other stuff as well. Whereas were using this one feat to suggest Teth moves quicker because he's being shown to move alongside Jay.

Your using lightning in the Narration to suggest he's going 1/3rd the speed of light but I could simply make the same case can't I? why does the word lightning in that scan suggest that their moving that fast. It's obviously figurative speech right?

Originally posted by Surtur
Just wow. Nobody said he is the fastest man alive. You don't have to be the fastest man alive to blitz Aquaman. Just looking at your scans..wtf? I don't even know what to say. I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

Yet nothing Teth has done has still been able to show he's going to blitz Aquaman..

Your argument hinges on one scan that your suggesting is more valid then multiple ones. I don't take that serious at all.

But again I wasn't really using the narration though.

Originally posted by Surtur
But again I wasn't really using the narration though.

If that were true what's the point of bringing up the lightning is 1/3rd the speed of light statement...

Regardless there's scans of Aquaman keeping up with Speedsters in a hurry, reacting to lightning bolts that originate from T-clouds, and reflexes said to react to incoming Speedsters or being shown to suprise speedsters.

I never brought up that argument if you notice. The point is he is fighting Jay Garrick at super speed, Jay Garrick who is actually faster then lightning at the high end.

Originally posted by Surtur
I never brought up that argument if you notice. The point is he is fighting Jay Garrick at super speed, Jay Garrick who is actually faster then lightning at the high end.

My bad if I mistook you for someone else. But no he's not fighting Jay at superspeed maybe moving alongside Jay both at superspeed but then we'd have to make the assumption we both should know is being used as a double standard.

Does Black Adam moving at speed alongside Jay suggest Jay is going at his top speed or that Teth can somewhat keep up with a speedster?

Aquaman has feats of keeping up with Speedsters as well as reacting to Speedsters coming at him. The excuse fore why that wouldn't be valid though is there not going at their top speed, right?

But then my question would be why suggest the one instance Jay is fighting at his top speeds whereas scans where Aquaman is keeping up with characters in a hurry isn't valid? Im hoping that makes a bit sense in terms of my frustration here because I see that as a double standard between the two characters.

Originally posted by basilisk
Things like "lightning fast", "quicker than greased lightning", "moved like lightning", "lightning reflexes" etc are just common idioms in the english language. .
Good point.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
My bad if I mistook you for someone else. But no he's not fighting Jay at superspeed maybe moving alongside Jay both at superspeed but then we'd have to make the assumption we both should know is being used as a double standard.

We see them throwing punches at each other. Even if they do not connect that is fighting, right?

Does Black Adam moving at speed alongside Jay suggest Jay is going at his top speed or that Teth can somewhat keep up with a speedster?

I think so yes.

Aquaman has feats of keeping up with Speedsters as well as reacting to Speedsters coming at him. The excuse fore why that wouldn't be valid though is there not going at their top speed, right?

Because the two things aren't the same. Aquaman does the same thing lots of characters do against speedsters. He's not actively fighting at super speed, he's doing something and having hyperbole added, but without that it's not so impressive. Whereas the artwork with Jay and Adam clearly shows them engaging each other at high speeds.

But then my question would be why suggest the one instance Jay is fighting at his top speeds whereas scans where Aquaman is keeping up with characters in a hurry isn't valid? Im hoping that makes a bit sense in terms of my frustration here because I see that as a double standard between the two characters.

You need to learn to separate traditional speedster PIS with actual feats. Most of Aquaman's things are him taking someone by surprise, or him showing superhuman reaction time, but not at a massively high level. Just look at Flash, he can do things at beyond the speed of light, Aquaman isn't really presented that way though, right? Black Adam is presented as a peer of Captain Marvel, who can actively fight a high end speedster at super speed, and his number of appearances in comics aren't plentiful when compared to Aquaman's. Looking at most of his career, Aquaman really isn't someone who has high end reaction time.

Originally posted by Surtur
We see them throwing punches at each other. Even if they do not connect that is fighting, right?

I think so yes.

Because the two things aren't the same. Aquaman does the same thing lots of characters do against speedsters. He's not actively fighting at super speed, he's doing something and having hyperbole added, but without that it's not so impressive. Whereas the artwork with Jay and Adam clearly shows them engaging each other at high speeds.

You need to learn to separate traditional speedster PIS with actual feats. Most of Aquaman's things are him taking someone by surprise, or him showing superhuman reaction time, but not at a massively high level. Just look at Flash, he can do things at beyond the speed of light, Aquaman isn't really presented that way though, right? Black Adam is presented as a peer of Captain Marvel, who can actively fight a high end speedster at super speed, and his number of appearances in comics aren't plentiful when compared to Aquaman's. Looking at most of his career, Aquaman really isn't someone who has high end reaction time.

So despite having feats or reacting to Speedsters it's all irrelevant because Black Adam is to move at super speed...

The definition of a fight is a physical struggle Adam isnt giving Jay a physical struggle if these peer Captain Marvel stuff is impressive why not post the fights and the usage of said speed.

Being someone's rival or enemy doesn't make you their physical peer it doesn't suggest you can do whatever they can physically. I'm pretty sure Pre52 Captain Marvel is faster then Superman travel wise whose both are faster then Teth by feats.

Your excuse that surprising them isn't impressive is just that an excuse and it's pretty pitiful at this point on how we can discredit multiple instances yet favor one.

Aquaman Suprsises Flash ok.. It doesn't change the fact that Flash was moving at Super speed or in chase of one of his rogues, it doesn't change the fact that Aquaman can perceive him it goes on to the point of being able to move in a superspeed type of way not necessarily traveling in running speed but his muscle movement is incredible and being downplayed in favor to suggest Teth does what speedblitz?

What about Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Superman charging a villain at speed and him keeping pace? Aquaman, Dark Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman racing to a meeting in Africa? Aquaman Dodging lightning from cloud to ground from Weather Wizard? Aquaman surprising speedster who are moving at superspeed suggest he's able to see them at superspeed and then act on it

You can't use the excuse that Jay is fighting at his top speed when there's nothing to suggest it whereas the instances Aquaman is doing something impressive in terms of speed it's the characters holding back. Doesn't really matter what you think in that regard if your going to suggest the latter for the Aquaman instances by logic the Teth scans should be taken in the same vein. Otherwise it's a double standard.

There's scams of Despero failing to tag Aquaman.
Excuses only go so far.

I never said it's irrelevant, I never said Aquaman has no super speed at all. What I'm saying is he isn't reacting to high end speedsters. Not on a consistent basis.

At this point I'd ask you who *can't* Aquaman react to? Since you apparently think he could react to pretty much anyone he needs to react to.

Originally posted by Surtur
I never said it's irrelevant, I never said Aquaman has no super speed at all. What I'm saying is he isn't reacting to high end speedsters. Not on a consistent basis.

Yet with one showing its consistent for Black Adam..

Most of those fights your speaking of with Billy how often is speed shown in them?

Aquaman has feats of Dodging blows from Despero, or charging Amazo, and so on. As far as I'm aware I've brought up more instances in terms of speed reaction and travel compared to the one that's being repetitively brought up for Teth.

Originally posted by Surtur
I never said it's irrelevant, I never said Aquaman has no super speed at all. What I'm saying is he isn't reacting to high end speedsters. Not on a consistent basis.

At this point I'd ask you who *can't* Aquaman react to? Since you apparently think he could react to pretty much anyone he needs to react to.

It's not about who he can't react to my concern is why is Teth being suggested as massively faster to the point Aquaman can't react to based on one instance, where people feel so easily ready to place him on par with Jay.

he is most certainly not jay...one instance of battling jay is not nearly enough proof to suggest that. he also got blitzed, badly, but jay and was forced to flail away to strike him. neither namor nor aquaman are slow, by any stretch. and yeah, i def think adam is faster than these guys, but not so much so that his speed would be the decisive factor. it could be, in a couple of fights, but no way in all of them, or even in any single fight. adam by far and away tends to brawl or use limited amounts of speed. this is a very close fight still.

Originally posted by leonidas
he is most certainly not jay...one instance of battling jay is not nearly enough proof to suggest that. he also got blitzed, badly, but jay and was forced to flail away to strike him. neither namor nor aquaman are slow, by any stretch. and yeah, i def think adam is faster than these guys, but not so much so that his speed would be the decisive factor. it could be, in a couple of fights, but no way in all of them, or even in any single fight. adam by far and away tends to brawl or use limited amounts of speed. this is a very close fight still.

👆

Adam spitestomps.

Originally posted by leonidas
he is most certainly not jay...one instance of battling jay is not nearly enough proof to suggest that. he also got blitzed, badly, but jay and was forced to flail away to strike him. neither namor nor aquaman are slow, by any stretch. and yeah, i def think adam is faster than these guys, but not so much so that his speed would be the decisive factor. it could be, in a couple of fights, but no way in all of them, or even in any single fight. adam by far and away tends to brawl or use limited amounts of speed. this is a very close fight still.

If that's the case Aquaman tps him if their Pre-Flashpoint

Post-Flashpoint Teth isn't taking both the Atlanteans.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆

Adam spitestomps.

Fact he hasn't been shown able to he honestly doesn't Aquaman drops him with tp and makes him do the worm.

Black Adam rips Aquamans Head off and Kills Namor with a single Punch.