Originally posted by The EllimistFace it; Sidious > Plagueis > Tenebrous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zannah > Bane > Valkorion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Hero. 👆
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
It's a vague and ridiculous quote, as this would imply that all of a sudden Bane>Nihilus, Valkorion, Revan, HoT, Nox, Wrath, Exar Kun etc which already made me laugh for even suggesting it.
Agreed.
And yeah. Fated, Beni, Neph, ILS, Ellimist. Let's move on. It's a never-ending argument.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
In terms of Sorcery/Alchemy? Of course they would be greater than Maul, given he has never delved into that field.
Still doesn't mean Maul's knowledge and mastery is inferior overall, especially when he is a Sith, which those adepts aren't worthy of being, as per Sidious himself. The point being you can't argue someone is inferior in overall knowledge and/or power because he/she doesn't know or use Sith magic and/or alchemy.
Maul is far more knowledgeable than those acolytes, because that's the point of being a Rot Sith. And just because Maul didn't use that stuff it doesn't mean he doesn't know it, unless you seriously think an adept is going to have better Force training than a Banite Sith apprentice. Bearing in mind that even Palpatine never uses sorcery in combat, and Maul has mainly shown his greatest abilities in that kind of situation.
Originally posted by Nargaroth
Still doesn't mean Maul's knowledge and mastery is inferior overall, especially when he is a Sith, which those adepts aren't worthy of being, as per Sidious himself. The point being you can't argue someone is inferior in overall knowledge and/or power because he/she doesn't know or use Sith magic and/or alchemy.Maul is far more knowledgeable than those acolytes, because that's the point of being a Rot Sith. And just because Maul didn't use that stuff it doesn't mean he doesn't know it, unless you seriously think an adept is going to have better Force training than a Banite Sith apprentice. Bearing in mind that even Palpatine never uses sorcery in combat, and Maul has mainly shown his greatest abilities in that kind of situation.
Which is why I said, in that field...yeah they are superior seeing as they have feats and they have studied materials regarding Sith Socery/Alchemy in detail, I wasn't saying overall their Force knowledge being greater than Maul.
But yeah, the idea that the quote has to be invalid because Bane isn't a master of literally everything every Sith has ever done (opposed to just being better overall, in terms of power and accumulative knowledge/mastery), is about as misguided as saying Vitiate can't be more masterful than Bane because he hasn't mastered the lightsaber/Force augmentation.
Nobody in Star Wars is perfect.
Apart from Sheev. Sheev is perfect. And Plagueis is pretty close too.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
What's your point? The statement in question says that Bane gained greater knowledge and mastery over the Sith techniques that anyone who came before him. That fact that he possessed knowledge of Sith techniques, which doesn't even prove he understood then (FYI: he didn't) certainly doesn't prove he mastered them (FYI: he didn't.)So maybe I ommitted it because... its irrelevant?
EDIT: And seeing as this is all ancient Sith knowledge, more Sith above Bane I guess?
But what the full quote states is that Zannah eclectically collected her knowledge from a variety of sources, and that Zannah's eclectic knowledge allowed her the ability to do stuff beyond Bane's understanding, something that can't be attributed to any singular ancient Sith, and therefore doesn't necessarily prove that any of these sith were overall superior to Bane in terms of knowledge.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I think the most likely explanation is that its referring to the Brotherhood of Sith. Or alternatively, its been retconned.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
No no he is:"Dark side sorcery was complex; it attacked the psyche in ways that were difficult to explain and even more difficult to defend against. Bane had no talent for it, yet he had done his best to study the techniques. What he learned was that the only real counter was the victim's strength of will."
The best grasp Bane is able to gain over sorcery is how to counter it, and his counter is pretty feeble at best, this doesn't constitute ability at all. Certainly not on the level of Freedon Nadd, or any of the other ancient Sith.
@Fated Xtasy: LMFAO, so Bane being TOR protag level or higher... is hilariously laughable? Interesting to hear you say that when you couldn't even win a Zannah vs Dooku debate
@DMB, red herring tbh, but if you wanna go that route then... Nox is unkillable, Wrath is top dog, The HoT is slowly becoming a god, Barsen'thor has impressive TK that blows bane out of the way, and his/her very death allowed a Force Nexus to flourish on Chandrilla that assisted, or rather would've have provided a lot of power to Ragnos's Resurrection. But then again that's not what made me laugh, It is the thought that Bane>Revan, Valk, Kun, and Nihilus that makes me laugh.
You know what I do find "hilariously laughable" tho?(which, BTW is a redundant statement) the fact that you think Zannah is anywhere near Caedus level, that is extremely amusing.
Originally posted by EmperordmbThat would be dependent on Bane having any kind of grasp over Nadd's teachings in and of itself, and I see no evidence of that.
My point is you were claiming Zannah's knowledge>Bane's and all her knowledge came from Nadd, therefore by your line of thought Nadd's knowledge≥Zannah's>Bane's and Nadd's texts aren't even understandable to Bane because he couldn't imagine what Zannah could do with that knowledge, therefore Nadd>Bane and the quote is invalid.But what the full quote states is that Zannah eclectically collected her knowledge from a variety of sources, and that Zannah's eclectic knowledge allowed her the ability to do stuff beyond Bane's understanding, something that can't be attributed to any singular ancient Sith, and therefore doesn't necessarily prove that any of these sith were overall superior to Bane in terms of knowledge.
Well it's a 2014 quote iirc, so good luck arguing retcon 👆Only more reason to believe the former, as that would make it post-Vitiate.
Yeah Ellimist already pointed out that Sorcery is hardly the only area of Sith knowledge that exists. Also, Bane's ability to counter sorcery... feeble? That's not at all the impression I got from how Bane handled Zannah's sorcery attack in DOE tbh.I find that a dubious evasion; granted there are other ways to become masterful in the Force, and granted it could be claimed someone like Maul or Vader to be more knowledge and more masterful in the Force that a Sith who'd learned a few spells. But the fact remains that Sith magic is the advanced algebra of the dark side and as far as Sith techniques are concerned they are the foremost and prevalent.@Fated Xtasy: LMFAO, so Bane being TOR protag level or higher... is hilariously laughable? Interesting to hear you say that when you couldn't even win a Zannah vs Dooku debate
And Bane isn't competing with some two-bit acolytes here, he is dealing with Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, Darth Revan, the Dread Masters, Emperor Vitiate etc. some of the greatest Sith sorcerers in galactic history, who had planetary treasure troves of knowledge, who charted the deepest depths of the dark side and accomplished the most complex rituals ever attempted. As if Bane can compete with them in Sith technique without even being capable of comprehending Sith sorcery, let alone mastering it.
Simply put when you exclude Sith magic, mastery in other spheres will only get you so far - the individuals Bane is supposedly better than being way outside his paygrade.
Yeah, that whole concept that Bane couldn't comprehend sorcery in the same way Zannah couldn't cast force lightning was one of the most retarded tangents in Karp's trilogy, but ultimately a mark against Bane and his supposed superior mastery of the force over any who had come before. 👆
That said, he's still > Arcann and anyone in TOR not named Revan or Valkorion. or Godlander. 🙂