Aquaman vs Wonder Woman
Aquaman vs Olympian
Aquaman vs Triton
Aquaman vs Wonder Woman
Aquaman vs Olympian
Aquaman vs Triton
Originally posted by Surtur
For me I think a more appropriate example would be like a building sized mallet vs a regular sized sword.Since yeah that is how much of a difference there is in strength between Aquaman and Class 100's like Superman or Captain Marvel in the PreDCnu.
I think it varies between writer the only character I see as always on the top of the heralds when it comes to strength is Superman
I'd put N52 Aquaman over N52 Shazam
Pre52 Shazam obviously above Aquaman in strength showings. But the ironic thing is were missing showings from BB the difference is were getting who he's hit rather then where he stands in strength
The reason I posted the Amazo and Despero showings is because it was suggested Aquaman can't physically hurt characters like that hand to hand
I posted the JL instance because it shows Aquaman staying conscious from a hit from Pre-Flashpoint Diana who is stronger then Bolt and Aquaman not being able to react in time
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
In a minor way I can kind of make sense of it comparing being hit by a blunt instrument to being hit by something sharp in nature.Mallet vs Sword
The difference there is merely pressure.
If you swing a mallet and a sword with the same amount of force, the sword is going to yield a lot more pressure because pressure is force distributed over area.
Thus the smaller the area, the more pressure.
You have to swing a mallet much, much, much harder to make up for the fact that it has a greater surface striking area.
So yeah I would say I agree with Surtur's revised example.
Originally posted by Surtur
For me I think a more appropriate example would be like a building sized mallet vs a regular sized sword.Since yeah that is how much of a difference there is in strength between Aquaman and Class 100's like Superman or Captain Marvel in the PreDCnu.
And the gap between BB and elite Marvel heralds is much smaller proven over the coarse of his ENTIRE history, not the most recent 15 minutes.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
The difference there is merely pressure.If you swing a mallet and a sword with the same amount of force, the sword is going to yield a lot more pressure because pressure is force distributed over area.
Thus the smaller the area, the more pressure.
You have to swing a mallet much, much, much harder to make up for the fact that it has a greater surface striking area.
So yeah I would say I agree with Surtur's revised example.
That's true, but the showing still doesn't make sense. As a top tier herald, the striking surface (Despero) would be akin to a foot or two of Titanium. It still should not have penetrated.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
That's true, but the showing still doesn't make sense. As a top tier herald, the striking surface (Despero) would be akin to a foot or two of Titanium. It still should not have penetrated.
Keep in mind in comics characters who can survive city destroying blast get hurt when a car is thrown at them at times.
Striking: Sends Ultraman flying
Originally posted by CosmicComet
The difference there is merely pressure.If you swing a mallet and a sword with the same amount of force, the sword is going to yield a lot more pressure because pressure is force distributed over area.
Thus the smaller the area, the more pressure.
You have to swing a mallet much, much, much harder to make up for the fact that it has a greater surface striking area.
So yeah I would say I agree with Surtur's revised example.
The pressure point you brought up is probably the best way to word it, Blunt force tends to move someone though being stabbed doesnt. Compare someone punching you to being stabbed
Originally posted by Surtur
For me I think a more appropriate example would be like a building sized mallet vs a regular sized sword.Since yeah that is how much of a difference there is in strength between Aquaman and Class 100's like Superman or Captain Marvel in the PreDCnu.
Aquaman has feats though to put him above Powergirl, it generally wasn't to consistent I'd admit Pre-Flashpoint but I wouldn't count him out. He's definitely class 100 throughout pretty much any age probably Golden being the exception
There's alot of stuff in the Detroit Era that Aquaman look pretty good
There was the fight against the guy who absorbed Superman's powers, Aquaman did pretty well until he got his powers absorbed.
There's his sparring against Martian Manhunter
There's the statment in Panic in the Sky
To be honest I've yet to complete my reading on Silver Age - Modern Age so I'd assume there's more stuff.
I agree Superman and Shazam Pre-Flashpoint are leagues ahead of Pre-Flashpoint Aquaman but they are against BB to so that serves not much of a point here, look at all of their individual strength feats and BB is the one lacking cause he doesn't have any personal feats atleast none mentioned here.
And I've read several Black Bolt comics.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Well we know Despero is more durable than a cheap scrap of steel so its seems like its a pretty bad feat to me.
I wanted to make an ending statement, that though I think BB can fight characters like Thor and Hulk hand to hand I don't think he'd win a match if he stuck to pure physicals and they did as well. I generally don't agree with the Marvel Handbook but I do think BB is in the same weight class as characters like Namor and The Thing.
I think Aquaman just for some reason is being disregarded, even Pre-Flashpoint he's been stated a couple times and shown to have duked it out with characters who are apparently in the same class as Superman and Aquaman has done pretty well.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043945-3995081-4164908542-pqaaa.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139093/2998106-aquamanvsslig3.jpg
Panic in the Sky
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043949-4693674-screenshot_2015-07-13-16-34-31-1.jpg
He's done pretty well against characters who have had Superman's power, whether it be Amazo or others.
http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZ
http://imgur.com/EGC65Pz?r
Until he gets his powers absorbed
http://i.imgur.com/Q4qKF8K.jpg
Hell one of his main rogues Ocean Master has taken a punch from Superman remained conscious, Strong enough to strain Superman in a choke hold, as well as took a punch from Wonder Woman and remained conscious. Prelude to Obsidian Age. Ocean Master was holding back both Superman and Wonder Woman with Water and Aquaman fights this guy consistently.
Another rogue Slig is stated by the writer to be in the same weight class as Superman and Aquaman has beaten Slig up physically in his own title.
He's shortly traded blows with Superboy and Lobo in his own title, has overpowered an All-Knowing which one of these things beat up Powergirl, as well as the fact King Shark another Aquaman villain consistently gives Superboy trouble in regards to physicals. I don't get comparisons of Batman hurting a herald compared to when Aquaman does it... given that I see Aquaman in the Herald class based on several showings in his own book and outside it.
Aquaman took hits from Titus who was a legit Herald buster none of the League could really fight him one on one and last to long.
He's generally traded blows with Martian Manhunter who Pre-Flashpoint didn't have to amp himself to fight other heralds.
I honestly don't get the low regard to Aquaman though.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I wanted to make an ending statement, that though I think BB can fight characters like Thor and Hulk hand to hand I don't think he'd win a match if he stuck to pure physicals and they did as well. I generally don't agree with the Marvel Handbook but I do think BB is in the same weight class as characters like Namor and The Thing.I think Aquaman just for some reason is being disregarded, even Pre-Flashpoint he's been stated a couple times and shown to have duked it out with characters who are apparently in the same class as Superman and Aquaman has done pretty well.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043945-3995081-4164908542-pqaaa.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139093/2998106-aquamanvsslig3.jpgPanic in the Sky
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043949-4693674-screenshot_2015-07-13-16-34-31-1.jpgHe's done pretty well against characters who have had Superman's power, whether it be Amazo or others.
http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZhttp://imgur.com/EGC65Pz?r
Until he gets his powers absorbed
http://i.imgur.com/Q4qKF8K.jpgHell one of his main rogues Ocean Master has taken a punch from Superman remained conscious, Strong enough to strain Superman in a choke hold, as well as took a punch from Wonder Woman and remained conscious. Prelude to Obsidian Age. Ocean Master was holding back both Superman and Wonder Woman with Water and Aquaman fights this guy consistently.
Another rogue Slig is stated by the writer to be in the same weight class as Superman and Aquaman has beaten Slig up physically in his own title.
He's shortly traded blows with Superboy and Lobo in his own title, has overpowered an All-Knowing which one of these things beat up Powergirl, as well as the fact King Shark another Aquaman villain consistently gives Superboy trouble in regards to physicals. I don't get comparisons of Batman hurting a herald compared to when Aquaman does it... given that I see Aquaman in the Herald class based on several showings in his own book and outside it.
Aquaman took hits from Titus who was a legit Herald buster none of the League could really fight him one on one and last to long.
He's generally traded blows with Martian Manhunter who Pre-Flashpoint didn't have to amp himself to fight other heralds.I honestly don't get the low regard to Aquaman though.
It's not low regard, it's that he's simply not in the mid to upper herald tier and Black Bolt is. For 95% of his career, AM has been a meta or a prime meta, but not a herald. I still don't think he's there because I don't put his strength and durability at Wonderman level. Anyone reading your takes objectively can see you are in the tank for Aquaman. You've said several times you think he is underrated and you've gone to great lengths to try to convince others. Most of the scans you provided as evidence are wishful thinking and largely work against your stance. For instance, you tried to make the argument that AM went toe to with a herald buster in AMAZO, yet the scan showed he was easily KOed and draped over AMAZO's shoulder before recovering in a pretty lame PIS laced scene. That showing in no way supports the argument that AM can compete at the herald level. By comparison, I didn't have to explain anything about the Black Bolt showings I posted because they speak for themselves and he wasn't getting knocked out. Like I said, AM would not embarrass himself against Black Bolt in hand to hand, but there is nothing to suggest he would win. BB'so hand to hand showings against heralds are consistent. He showed to be Thor's equal in their hand to hand bout and lost due to Thor exploiting a weakness, a charged Mjolnir blow to his electron antenna.
Let me end by emphasizing that losing to BB in hand to hand is no negative reflection on AM, but still, you need to pump the breaks a little.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I wanted to make an ending statement, that though I think BB can fight characters like Thor and Hulk hand to hand I don't think he'd win a match if he stuck to pure physicals and they did as well. I generally don't agree with the Marvel Handbook but I do think BB is in the same weight class as characters like Namor and The Thing.I think Aquaman just for some reason is being disregarded, even Pre-Flashpoint he's been stated a couple times and shown to have duked it out with characters who are apparently in the same class as Superman and Aquaman has done pretty well.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043945-3995081-4164908542-pqaaa.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139093/2998106-aquamanvsslig3.jpgPanic in the Sky
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111244877/5043949-4693674-screenshot_2015-07-13-16-34-31-1.jpgHe's done pretty well against characters who have had Superman's power, whether it be Amazo or others.
http://imgur.com/a/Fz5SZhttp://imgur.com/EGC65Pz?r
Until he gets his powers absorbed
http://i.imgur.com/Q4qKF8K.jpgHell one of his main rogues Ocean Master has taken a punch from Superman remained conscious, Strong enough to strain Superman in a choke hold, as well as took a punch from Wonder Woman and remained conscious. Prelude to Obsidian Age. Ocean Master was holding back both Superman and Wonder Woman with Water and Aquaman fights this guy consistently.
Another rogue Slig is stated by the writer to be in the same weight class as Superman and Aquaman has beaten Slig up physically in his own title.
He's shortly traded blows with Superboy and Lobo in his own title, has overpowered an All-Knowing which one of these things beat up Powergirl, as well as the fact King Shark another Aquaman villain consistently gives Superboy trouble in regards to physicals. I don't get comparisons of Batman hurting a herald compared to when Aquaman does it... given that I see Aquaman in the Herald class based on several showings in his own book and outside it.
Aquaman took hits from Titus who was a legit Herald buster none of the League could really fight him one on one and last to long.
He's generally traded blows with Martian Manhunter who Pre-Flashpoint didn't have to amp himself to fight other heralds.I honestly don't get the low regard to Aquaman though.
Wait, your main argument is who he took hits from? Dude, he has PLENTY of company in that vein! So is Captain America some how a herald because he took hits from Thanos and Count Nefaria? You can't derive much from that but to say he is durable in general. If Thanos punched Thing, I doubt Thing would DIE and likely would go flying but not be KOed.
Secondly, your point about his rogues should be taken with a grain of salt. PLENTY characters have rogues who are a tier higher. Mangog is a Thor Rogue but that doesn't mean Thor is in Mangog's power tier. Oh, and Clayface is a full to levels higher than Batman. Rhino is at least a level above Spiderman. So no, the fact that Ocean Master is tough and a AM rogue doesn't mean AM is on OM'S level.
