Easy, we know the range in general that chimps are stronger than humans. We also know Caesar is their superior as well. So he'd be even above the top change for his species. Plus, he'd be able to rely on two pressure points to get the job down instead of using just his arms. Obviously I don't know that he could, but it's seems plausible. Now my question to you is, in the original movie it believe it was said how much stronger Cap is than a normal human. Now you might just have your answer then.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Easy, we know the range in general that chimps are stronger than humans. We also know Caesar is their superior as well. So he'd be even above the top change for his species. Plus, he'd be able to rely on two pressure points to get the job down instead of using just his arms. Obviously I don't know that he could, but it's seems plausible. Now my question to you is, in the original movie it believe it was said how much stronger Cap is than a normal human. Now you might just have your answer then.
So you actually don't have any feats that suggest he could do this, nothing he specifically did on panel.
As for how much stronger than a human the movie said Captain America is..I don't recall, but what it says is irrelevant. What is relevant is what Cap has done with his strength, and that is stuff Caesar has never been shown to match.
Originally posted by Surtur
So you actually don't have any feats that suggest he could do this, nothing he specifically did on panel.As for how much stronger than a human the movie said Captain America is..I don't recall, but what it says is irrelevant. What is relevant is what Cap has done with his strength, and that is stuff Caesar has never been shown to match.
Actually it's totally relevant, as it is a canon fact just the same as any feat you can name. Likely more so, being that I could cite those as PIS moments, considering that verbal narration of the canon movie. So again, it's totally relevant what was said.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Actually it's totally relevant, as it is a canon fact just the same as any feat you can name. Likely more so, being that I could cite those as PIS moments, considering that verbal narration of the canon movie. So again, it's totally relevant what was said.
The only reason I can surmise that you would try to harp on these numbers so much is because the number given for Cap is close to the number of how many times stronger than a human chimps are supposed to be.
Which you will need more than that if you want to say Caesar is stronger. Feats matter.
Originally posted by Surtur
Plus I could of sworn in the first movie they said the serum turned Cap into someone who was at the very peak of human potential. If true that is already one example of where what we are told is contradicted by what we actually see on screen.
That isn't necessarily a contradiction though. We have no real idea what a "peak" human can do as we've never seen one. For all we know, they could do what Cap has done. For all we know when a genius creates a drug with incredible properties, who are we to say what it could or couldn't do to make someone "peak" human (something we don't even know the limits of). So no, that isn't a contradiction
We do have an idea of the bodies limits though. For instance we have seen incidents where a mother might,momentarily, lift a car up a bit off the ground in order to save her child that is being crushed underneath. Things like that happen and often with consequences to the body after, like for instance I've heard of cases like I just described where the woman ended up breaking her legs as a result.
We have an idea of our limits and we surely have an idea of what would be way outside our limits.
Originally posted by Surtur
What has Caesar done with strength that you don't think a real chimp his size could do?
It was established in the movie that the chemicals the chimps were exposed to made them better than other chimps by proxy. When it comes to anything.. physical prowess... intelligence... etc etc. We further know that Caesar is even better than them... being that he was born (thus infused) with said chemical while still in his mothers womb. That was said to have caused it to be even more potent in him because he was still developing while getting boosted. Other were exposed much later in life.
Further, we know Chimps are ruled by a physical hierarchy. We still this established in the real world and in the Planet of the Apes movie world. When Caesar first went to the facility housing apes (while younger), he had to be subservient to the dominate chimp there. Once he defeated him physically, he became the leader. Further establishing him as being above normal chimps. He further reinforced this, by physical defeating another enhanced apes (Koba), even while physically injured. He defeated him prior as well, while not, and did so pretty easily. Again this was to a already enhanced chimp, clearly showing he's even above them.
You have this notion that people need to show how strong they are all the time. Sometimes people don't need to or have to lift stuff to achieve their goals. Doesn't mean they aren't strong. Were we ever shown how strong Thanos was in GOTG. They could've showed this in many ways, but the plot didn't need him to lift a building. Does that mean he's not strong? We never saw Odin lift anything in his appearance, does that mean he couldn't lift a car if he wanted to? I can go on and on with examples of this.
Um yeah dude if Odin didn't show the physical strength needed to lift a car..he can't lift it. Doesn't mean he needs a specific feat of lifting a car, but just any strength feat that would show him as having the needed strength to do so would be enough.
We certainly wouldn't just apply all of Thor's feats to Odin. Or if Asgardians as a whole had shown that on average they are all at least strong enough to lift up a car..then sure I'd have no problem saying Odin could. But these people are not like Kryptonians, they have wildly varying power levels.
Originally posted by Surtur
We do have an idea of the bodies limits though. For instance we have seen incidents where a mother might,momentarily, lift a car up a bit off the ground in order to save her child that is being crushed underneath. Things like that happen and often with consequences to the body after, like for instance I've heard of cases like I just described where the woman ended up breaking her legs as a result.We have an idea of our limits and we surely have an idea of what would be way outside our limits.
No we don't. We've never seen a peak human. Even the incidents you reference clearly aren't that. You're forgetting about the SS and its properties. Part of which is a healing factor and overall making the body tougher and more durable. Thus he's able to do these things and lift these things without "breaking his legs also" Where as a human gets a sudden burst of adrenaline, doesn't make their legs more durable. So you're forgetting about the other properties Cap has that a normal human could never achieve from just working out a lot. Further, again you're dealing with a genius making a product to purposely increase many things. That has a level of ambiguity you can't account for. Who knows what it could do. It could take the body to a potential we've never seen, yet it's still possible.
Again, there is no for sure contradiction there. Which is the point.
If he's able to do things without breaking his legs and stuff like that it means he's gone beyond the peak of human potential, because humans can't really perform these types of feats without injury.
So yes, there is a contradiction. He's not peak human, he is above it. I'm also not sure how you could even say scientists today don't have any idea about the bodies limits, especially the physical limits.
When we operate at our peaks our bodies tend to not be able to handle it and we tend to be able to only do it in very short bursts. This isn't true for Cap, he's beyond any human.
Or if you want you can surely argue that Marvel itself has a different definition of what a human is truly capable of. Which is certainly true in the comics. Just like in comics Batman is "only human".