Captain America Vs Caesar

Originally posted by FrothByte
We actually don't have proof that Ceasar is stronger than a regular chimp. He's a leader of apes due to his superior intellect, not because he's the strongest. If that was the case then a gorilla should have been head.

Only it wasn't just his physical intellect that made him stronger. He beat the dominant ape by beating him over the head with a tray. Then later, he beat the then dominate (also enhanced Chimp, Koba) two separate times in physical encounters. Thus further establishing his PHYSICAL superiority

Originally posted by Surtur
Of course Thanos is most likely vastly more powerful than Captain America in every way. But he has no feats. I'm not sure why this bothers you? We can surely make assumptions, but those aren't feats. Which is why it's not a good idea to put him up against anybody until he gets feats.

These are not the comic versions. They have their own power levels that they need to establish. Thanos has so far established he can sit in a chair and give orders.

Caesar has feats though, Thanos doesn't. Stop bringing him up it's not the same at all.

That is the point though, sometimes characters don't have physical feats and assumptions need to be made. We see this all the time in movies. It's a common theme. Sometimes they plot doesn't call on them to TEST their upper lifting limits. What is difficult to understand about that? The plot doesn't always call for it. Just like the plot didn't call for Odin or Thanos or state puff marshmellow guy to lift anything. Does that mean we assume Cap is stronger because he has? The point is exactly relevant

The plot indeed sometimes doesn't call for them to use their powers. However, that doesn't mean we make exceptions for these characters when it comes to feats. What it means is characters like that just shouldn't be used in the first place. But if you insist on trying to use one then yes they do need feats.

Movies/comics/cartoons/whatever are not made with these kind of debates in mind and thus it's inevitable you run into characters just not suitable for any kind of legit debate. The feat system isn't perfect, but in order to be fair it has to be applied all across the board.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Only it wasn't just his physical intellect that made him stronger. He beat the dominant ape by beating him over the head with a tray. Then later, he beat the then dominate (also enhanced Chimp, Koba) two separate times in physical encounters. Thus further establishing his PHYSICAL superiority

Yeah, it established him as physically superior to Koba. It doesn't establish him as physically superior to every single regular chimp. After all, he got his ass beat up by a regular chimp when he first arrives in the facility.

So yeah, you still don't have proof that Ceasar is stronger than regular chimps.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Yeah, it established him as physically superior to Koba. It doesn't establish him as physically superior to every single regular chimp. After all, he got his ass beat up by a regular chimp when he first arrives in the facility.

So yeah, you still don't have proof that Ceasar is stronger than regular chimps.

Why do you keep saying he lost the first fight and being disingenuous about it continually? Did you not see the movie? Did you happen to notice he was much younger and smaller when that happened? He clearly hadn't matured fully yet, but somehow you insist on using that as a low showing lol

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Why do you keep saying he lost the first fight and being disingenuous about it continually? Did you not see the movie? Did you happen to notice he was much younger and smaller when that happened? He clearly hadn't matured fully yet, but somehow you insist on using that as a low showing lol

What, are you saying he didn't lose that fight? Him being young does not invalidate him losing the fight. He was nearly as big as the other chimp and he seemed like he already reached his full height at that point. And it was only a short time later that he fought Koba and broke out the other chimps from the lab.
So why are you willing to use his first fight against Koba as a valid feat but not his first loss against the chimp bully even though these 2 event happened closely to each other. Probably happened only months apart.

You also still haven't provided any proof that he is stronger than other chimps. It's certainly proven that he's stronger than Koba, that doesn't prove that he's stronger than other chimps.

Originally posted by FrothByte
What, are you saying he didn't lose that fight? Him being young does not invalidate him losing the fight. He was nearly as big as the other chimp and he seemed like he already reached his full height at that point. And it was only a short time later that he fought Koba and broke out the other chimps from the lab.
So why are you willing to use his first fight against Koba as a valid feat but not his first loss against the chimp bully even though these 2 event happened closely to each other. Probably happened only months apart.

You also still haven't provided any proof that he is stronger than other chimps. It's certainly proven that he's stronger than Koba, that doesn't prove that he's stronger than other chimps.

ItRe-watch the film, he seems to be a little smaller when he was bullied by the bully. He clearly hadn't reach his physical maturity yet. For Christ sake he was still domesticated at that point. He was still wearing a sweater. It was his first interaction with Chimps, let alone trying to fight one. I thought it was clear he hadn't reached his maturity yet.

Further, I don't know what you mean by he fought Koba in Dawn of the planet of the apes when he set him and the other apes free. I don't remember them fighting then. They fought in Dawn of the Planet of the apes once when Koba questioned his orders and then again at the end of the film. I don't remember him fighting him at all in Rise.

Just name what you think the most powerful thing Caesar has done is.

Dude. Just post some feats. We don't need a "base". We need feats to base off of and compare to Cap.

ALso since Chimps are about 3x-4x a human of comparable size, then Khan who is 5x a human should be stronger than most Chimps. And Cap is clearly his superior.

Originally posted by Surtur
Just name what you think the most powerful thing Caesar has done is.

Captured his heart. 😎

jeez will this turn into 50 pages of stupidity?

Originally posted by Silent Master
KT is just doing his normal crying/trolling routine.

I know you arent calling someone out for trolling...

❌

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
ItRe-watch the film, he seems to be a little smaller when he was bullied by the bully. He clearly hadn't reach his physical maturity yet. For Christ sake he was still domesticated at that point. He was still wearing a sweater. It was his first interaction with Chimps, let alone trying to fight one. I thought it was clear he hadn't reached his maturity yet.

Further, I don't know what you mean by he fought Koba in Dawn of the planet of the apes when he set him and the other apes free. I don't remember them fighting then. They fought in Dawn of the Planet of the apes once when Koba questioned his orders and then again at the end of the film. I don't remember him fighting him at all in Rise.

Pretty sure Ceasar and Koba had some kind of altercation in the first movie even if only brief. But even if they didn't, then that just weakens your stance. Because at the end of the day you have no proof that Ceasar is any stronger than the average chimp of comparable size. The only proof you have is that he's stronger than Koba. Because the one time he actually fought a regular chimp he got his ass beat.

You're remembering wrong.

You keep trying to make a point about rocket winning but keep failing miserably. Caesar had never fought before and was still domesticated at that point. He clearly hadn't reached his physical maturity yet, and certainly not his functional maturity. You keep acting like Rocket is better and stronger than Koba, and that couldn't be further from the truth. If he was actually his physical superior, he would've taken things over when Caesar was apparently dead. He could've challenged Koba for control again, guess what, he didn't for a reason. Just like he could've challenged Caesar again after losing, but he didn't. Stop being disingenuous about the scene.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're remembering wrong.

You keep trying to make a point about rocket winning but keep failing miserably. Caesar had never fought before and was still domesticated at that point. He clearly hadn't reached his physical maturity yet, and certainly not his functional maturity. You keep acting like Rocket is better and stronger than Koba, and that couldn't be further from the truth. If he was actually his physical superior, he would've taken things over when Caesar was apparently dead. He could've challenged Koba for control again, guess what, he didn't for a reason. Just like he could've challenged Caesar again after losing, but he didn't. Stop being disingenuous about the scene.

I did not say that he beat Ceasar while Ceasar was at his peak. I said the only time Ceasar fought a regular ape, he lost. Yes he was young, I don't deny this. That still does nothing to support your claim though. What proof do you have that Ceasar is stronger than a regular chimp? Stop dodging the question and post proof.

So is there anyone else besides 1 person that feels Caesar even has a chance?

Kt is a troll.

Originally posted by Surtur
So is there anyone else besides 1 person that feels Caesar even has a chance?

Let me ask you, how much stronger is Cap than Caesar? Also what advantages does Cap hold over Caesar. Please answer:

1. Strength
2. Intelligence
3. Agility/Movement
4. Durability
5. Fighting Skill

So would you say Cap owns in all these?

KT, sometimes we agree; sometimes we don't. This is one of those times we don't and extremely so.

The only real advantages I give Caesar over Cap are agility and natural weapons(teeth). He also may be smarter, but not where it's going to matter in a face-off match. Caesar's agility advantage also relies heavily on environmental factors.

Imo, Cap would beat the crap out of Caesar, but would know he was in a fight as Caesar's formidable in his own right.

How do you disagree with me bud, I didn't even say Caesar would win this fight. In fact, I never even said who'd win. I was disputing this theory that Cap is considerably stronger than Caesar. Pretty much not much else. So I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with me about. However, as the list I put up shows, Caesar has advantages in some areas of the fight, which doesn't make this a stomp. So in essence, we actually agree mostly on this fight. It won't a walk in the park for Cap at all.

Caesar is mostly certainly smarter. Of that there can be no dispute. He's more agile with his movement. Strength, would be negligible for Cap imo. He has better fighting skill, but this is combated by Caesar animal instincts, weapons and rage. Cap has obviously better durability. My who point is, this isn't a walk in the park for Cap.