Captain America Vs Caesar

Originally posted by Surtur
Um yeah dude if Odin didn't show the physical strength needed to lift a car..he can't lift it. Doesn't mean he needs a specific feat of lifting a car, but just any strength feat that would show him as having the needed strength to do so would be enough.

We certainly wouldn't just apply all of Thor's feats to Odin. Or if Asgardians as a whole had shown that on average they are all at least strong enough to lift up a car..then sure I'd have no problem saying Odin could. But these people are not like Kryptonians, they have wildly varying power levels.

That's just it, you'd have to say Odin could. We know he could. He's Thor's superior in ever way imaginable. Which again is the point, he doesn't need to be shown lifting a car for us to know he can lift a damn car. Same thing with Thanos, was he shown lifting a building... or a car... or a huge object? Not so much. Does that mean he couldn't?

Lol what? If Thanos hasn't shown he is strong enough to lift a building why the f*ck could he lift a building? All he's done is sit in a chair.

What feat do you have to suggest he could lift a building? Being in charge is NOT a feat.

That is why you don't really see people using the movie version of Thanos in a fight..because we don't know how powerful he is yet, we've seen him do nothing but give orders and sit in a floating chair. We can speculate how powerful he will be, but we have to wait until we actual see him performing feats before we begin to say he can lift buildings.

Cap can't get drunk. I'm pretty sure every human can get drunk, so there's that

There is also the whole "survives in ice for decades" thing.

Originally posted by Surtur
If he's able to do things without breaking his legs and stuff like that it means he's gone beyond the peak of human potential, because humans can't really perform these types of feats without injury.

So yes, there is a contradiction. He's not peak human, he is above it. I'm also not sure how you could even say scientists today don't have any idea about the bodies limits, especially the physical limits.

When we operate at our peaks our bodies tend to not be able to handle it and we tend to be able to only do it in very short bursts. This isn't true for Cap, he's beyond any human.

Or if you want you can surely argue that Marvel itself has a different definition of what a human is truly capable of. Which is certainly true in the comics. Just like in comics Batman is "only human".

We're talking strength here. The other factors you're mentioning AREN'T strength related. You're referring to things such a durability and stamina, things the SS also increased. You keep seemingly forgetting this part. You forgot that strong men today have been shown squatting huge amounts of weight. They squatted 1,200 pounds... benched over a 1000 etc etc. That is without a healing factor or generally making your bones and muscles stronger. We've seen marathon runners go for miles and miles and barely be out of breathe. We've seen Cap out of breathe which is to say, he doesn't get a little winded. Now imagine a formula that made him the peak of ever single category imaginable for a human. You have NO idea what that would look like, nor does any doctor today. Further, you're forgetting in ambiguity of the SS and what it could do. Who knows how far it could take the human body. Scientists known what the body is more of less capable of. They have ZERO clue what a body could do that has a healing factor and bones and muscles stronger than anybody alive now or then. So no, they have no clue what a SS human could or couldn't do.

Originally posted by Surtur
Lol what? If Thanos hasn't shown he is strong enough to lift a building why the f*ck could he lift a building? All he's done is sit in a chair.

What feat do you have to suggest he could lift a building? Being in charge is NOT a feat.

That is why you don't really see people using the movie version of Thanos in a fight..because we don't know how powerful he is yet, we've seen him do nothing but give orders and sit in a floating chair. We can speculate how powerful he will be, but we have to wait until we actual see him performing feats before we begin to say he can lift buildings.

Which is my point. Do you actually believe Thanos isn't strong enough to lift a car? Is that what you're claiming. I know we haven't SEEN him lift a car, but when you know a firmly established character from comics, and what they are capable of... you should be able to say he can lift a damn car. Which is the point. He doesn't need to be shown doing so to know he could do so.

You left of the Odin example. We know he's Thor's superior in every way. Yet, he wasn't shown lifting a car, does that mean he can't?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It was established in the movie that the chemicals the chimps were exposed to made them better than other chimps by proxy. When it comes to anything.. physical prowess... intelligence... etc etc. We further know that Caesar is even better than them... being that he was born (thus infused) with said chemical while still in his mothers womb. That was said to have caused it to be even more potent in him because he was still developing while getting boosted. Other were exposed much later in life.

Further, we know Chimps are ruled by a physical hierarchy. We still this established in the real world and in the Planet of the Apes movie world. When Caesar first went to the facility housing apes (while younger), he had to be subservient to the dominate chimp there. Once he defeated him physically, he became the leader. Further establishing him as being above normal chimps. He further reinforced this, by physical defeating another enhanced apes (Koba), even while physically injured. He defeated him prior as well, while not, and did so pretty easily. Again this was to a already enhanced chimp, clearly showing he's even above them.

You have this notion that people need to show how strong they are all the time. Sometimes people don't need to or have to lift stuff to achieve their goals. Doesn't mean they aren't strong. Were we ever shown how strong Thanos was in GOTG. They could've showed this in many ways, but the plot didn't need him to lift a building. Does that mean he's not strong? We never saw Odin lift anything in his appearance, does that mean he couldn't lift a car if he wanted to? I can go on and on with examples of this.

I don't recall anything in the movie that specifically states that the chimps were enhanced physically. Specially not Ceasar. They were enhanced mentally, just not physically. If there was a part in there that was mentioned, I'd appreciate a quote or a video.

I'll have to watch it again for the specific reference. However, I thought it was clear it also helped him physically. The dad, who was suffering both mentally and physically, was improved after taking the drug. He was able to move around better, and do things like play the piano again, which he wasn't mentally and physically able to do in years. That was the entire point of the drug, it made him a new man again in many ways.

We further see this reinforced by Caesar physically beating the former patriarch of the Chimps in the facility. He was clearly the physically dominate one, and Caesar easily dispatches him. To say nothing of the fact, that it was SPECIFICALLY mentioned that Caesar had an even greater exposure to the chemical properties being exposed to them while in the womb. I believe they say they don't know all the benefits that more powerful exposure could have, but there are clearly more than the others exposed.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'll have to watch it again for the specific reference. However, I thought it was clear it also helped him physically. The dad, who was suffering both mentally and physically, was improved after taking the drug. He was able to move around better, and do things like play the piano again, which he wasn't mentally and physically able to do in years. That was the entire point of the drug, it made him a new man again in many ways.

We further see this reinforced by Caesar physically beating the former patriarch of the Chimps in the facility. He was clearly the physically dominate one, and Caesar easily dispatches him. To say nothing of the fact, that it was SPECIFICALLY mentioned that Caesar had an even greater exposure to the chemical properties being exposed to them while in the womb. I believe they say they don't know all the benefits that more powerful exposure could have, but there are clearly more than the others exposed.

The dad was suffering from dementia IIRC, not from any physical ailments. He had difficulty coordinating himself and accomplishing physical tasks because his mind was wasting away - and it is the mind after all that tells the body how to accomplish specific actions. Once the formula fixed his mind, he was able to use his body properly.

When Ceasar first went into the facility, he got his ass completely beat by the resident dominant ape. Which shows that he wasn't stronger than a regular ape. He beat that chimp by using his brains and unleashing a gorilla.

All in all, I don't recall any reference in the movie that specifically says or shows that the chimps were enhanced physically.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The dad was suffering from dementia IIRC, not from any physical ailments. He had difficulty coordinating himself and accomplishing physical tasks because his mind was wasting away - and it is the mind after all that tells the body how to accomplish specific actions. Once the formula fixed his mind, he was able to use his body properly.

When Ceasar first went into the facility, he got his ass completely beat by the resident dominant ape. Which shows that he wasn't stronger than a regular ape. He beat that chimp by using his brains and unleashing a gorilla.

All in all, I don't recall any reference in the movie that specifically says or shows that the chimps were enhanced physically.

You're incorrect on when Caesar lost the first fight. You can tell, in the scene, he's much younger then. You can clearly see this. Then as time goes on, and he fully matures, he's clearly larger and stronger. He then clearly dominates the scene. He later, while badly injured, physically dominates Koba (the new prime male) easily and while injured.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're incorrect on when Caesar lost the first fight. You can tell, in the scene, he's much younger then. You can clearly see this. Then as time goes on, and he fully matures, he's clearly larger and stronger. He then clearly dominates the scene. He later, while badly injured, physically dominates Koba (the new prime male) easily and while injured.

How am I incorrect? He lost that first fight when he was in the facility. He lost to a regular ape, proving that he was not stronger than a regular ape. Yes he was young, but he was already exposed to the formula. If your theory is correct then he should already have been stronger than a regular ape.

Him winning against Koba doesn't prove anything. It just proves that he's stronger than Koba. Besides, which fight are you referring to, their fight in the first film or the 2nd?

Simply drop some feats that equal to or surpass Cap's.

Like holding up a car with one arm.

Or kicking a jeep out of his way.

Or breaking a jeep with a motorcycle.

Or keeping a helicopter from taking off.

Or booking it at 45+mph down the highway.

Or punching through subway glass.

Or fighting a super robot.

Or fighting a Frost Giant with super strength.

I could go on.

Is cap Stronger than Thanos King? I can't come up with feats for movie Thanos or Movie Odin greater than those... so what... Cap is stronger than them? You can think outside the box a little right?

Judging that pretty much every Marvel character is at least very similar to their comic counterpart power wise, if not strength wise. Then it's safe to assume Thanos is vastly stronger than Cap. Just like Thor is stronger than Cap or Hulk.

Don't try to pull that stuff.

Put up feats that we can compare since a fight is a direct comparison of who's stronger, faster, etc...

KT will never posts feats, he'll just continue to troll.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Is cap Stronger than Thanos King? I can't come up with feats for movie Thanos or Movie Odin greater than those... so what... Cap is stronger than them? You can think outside the box a little right?

I'm not pulling anything. I'm illustrating that people don't need lifting feats to prove how strong they are all the time. Sometimes the plot doesn't call for them to lift anything. So what. Which is the point I'm making. Some would say that you can only use movie feats, their comic feats don't apply. Like you though, I know these characters are based on comic book characters and thus they should be roughly the same as portrayed there. Thus, we can infer he should be vastly stronger than Cap.

Same thing here... we know Chimps or stronger than humans. It can range between 2 to 4 times stronger. We know Caesar is the best of the best, and likely stronger than normal chimps. We don't need to see him lift something then by proxy. We have a baseline for him. Understand what I'm saying now?

Is Silent posting again about the animals he never fended off? Or is he finally conceding that never happened, like we all already knew?

I told you that he'd refuse to back up his arguments with feats.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Is cap Stronger than Thanos King? I can't come up with feats for movie Thanos or Movie Odin greater than those... so what... Cap is stronger than them? You can think outside the box a little right?

Of course Thanos is most likely vastly more powerful than Captain America in every way. But he has no feats. I'm not sure why this bothers you? We can surely make assumptions, but those aren't feats. Which is why it's not a good idea to put him up against anybody until he gets feats.

These are not the comic versions. They have their own power levels that they need to establish. Thanos has so far established he can sit in a chair and give orders.

Caesar has feats though, Thanos doesn't. Stop bringing him up it's not the same at all.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

Same thing here... we know Chimps or stronger than humans. It can range between 2 to 4 times stronger. We know Caesar is the best of the best, and likely stronger than normal chimps. We don't need to see him lift something then by proxy. We have a baseline for him. Understand what I'm saying now?

We actually don't have proof that Ceasar is stronger than a regular chimp. He's a leader of apes due to his superior intellect, not because he's the strongest. If that was the case then a gorilla should have been head.