Great Battles Vol 1: Darth Plagueis vs. Vitiate (Revan novel)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Provide evidence of your "centuries" claim.

I didn't say it took centuries to form a nexus, but it took centuries to make it what it was by TOR, which is the only time we know how potent it is.

But to return to my Aborah comparison, starting out with two non-nexus locations, Plagueis produced a comparably powerful nexus in immeasurably smaller timeframes than the centuries of rituals that Vitiate did in the Dark Temple.

Hundreds of years ago, the Sith Emperor ordered the construction of the Dark Temple as a burial place for his dead and defeated enemies, “to aid them in becoming one with the Force.” Little is known of what rituals the Emperor performed there, but the Dark Temple has become a nexus of powerful dark side energy, and a place where ancient weapons and ancient secrets of the Sith lay sealed away in cavernous chambers.

-- The Dark Temple Codex Entry

And a key difference you continue to overlook is that Vitiate's corruption effort was permanent.

Yes, I'd hope that the effects are permanent, since they're caused by his rituals. I mean, if they were as long-lasting as something that was caused by Plagueis' mere presence, then I think I'd hand Plagueis the landslide victory here 😂

I can read.

That is not a planetary-scale feat, simple. And we only have the perspective of a [B]local to evaluate it. [/B]

And yet you continue to show that you can't read with the very comment underneath. For one, I said half-planetary, and secondly, it's all of the locals, not just one, lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I can't believe a cold winter is being used as a feat for Plagueis. That's just an extremely common narrative trick. The two aren't linked outside of creating atmosphere. Cold winters occurring to highlight bad shit happens all the time.

Next someone will use it being a dark, stormy night as evidence. 🙄

People do use dark, stormy nights as evidence, lmfao.

Anyways, your point would have merit... but this is Star Wars, and the arrivals of extremely powerful Sith Lords have had implications in the weather before - such as Palpatine generating Weather Storms with his presence. There are instances where it's specifically stated to be Palpatine, Gethzerion etc. causing the weather phenomena. I think it's pretty clear that it doubles both as a narrative omen and as a showing of Plagueis' dark power.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
So once again, I still see nobody backing up any of Vitiate's feats while also trying to take into account the powerful nexus he's been sitting in his whole life, not to mention his near inability to overpower Revan on it. The reason why we got down the Nihilus path was that Ant suggested we just power scale Vitiate off of him or something.

So you missed the entire thread then huh? Vitiate's feats on all the nexus' he intensified has been properly explained as how Revan did what he did. I'm fairly certain everyone here understood you were going to go this route when you initially stated that you haven't seen any arguments. Good show as usual ellimist 👆

Originally posted by SunRazer
People do use dark, stormy nights as evidence, lmfao.

Anyways, your point would have merit... but this is Star Wars, and the arrivals of extremely powerful Sith Lords have had implications in the weather before - such as Palpatine generating Weather Storms with his presence. There are instances where it's specifically stated to be Palpatine, Gethzerion etc. causing the weather phenomena. I think it's pretty clear that it doubles both as a narrative omen and as a showing of Plagueis' dark power.

Maybe for their idiocy, I suppose.

Intentional changes in the weather are different than shit just happening because supa powa. Plagueis wasn't even on the planet during the winter, it was after his visit in the autumn. So his presence wouldn't even be affecting anything. It's obviously just an omen.

I suppose a pertinent question here is whether Plagueis wields the composite combat effectiveness of a highly wounded!Revan and Nyriss.

Sub-Nyriss.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I suppose a pertinent question here is whether Plagueis wields the composite combat effectiveness of a highly wounded!Revan and Nyriss.

That would ignore Revan's ability to withstand Vitiate's mind attack. It would also need its own thread. I would say he's combat effective for sure but I see no evidence of him withstanding Vitiate's mind attack.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Sub-Nyriss.

True.

The more I think about it, the more confident I am that Plagueis takes this. He has the feats, accolades, and combat effectiveness to make this possible. Vitiate's fight with Revan proves that you needn't be Vitiate's exact equal in Force strength to give him hell or potentially defeat him. So even if Plagueis isn't as powerful as Vitiate in sheer strength, he still has the means to take this.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
That would ignore Revan's ability to withstand Vitiate's mind attack. It would also need its own thread. I would say he's combat effective for sure but I see no evidence of him withstanding Vitiate's mind attack.

I see no evidence of Vitiate's ability to successfully employ a mind attack against someone like Plagueis, especially in this era and without major prep involved.

he still has the means to take this.

I see no evidence of Vitiate's ability to successfully employ a mind attack against someone like Plagueis, especially in this era and without major prep involved.

You can resist anything with enough willpower, lol. General strength in the Force also plays a part in it.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You can resist anything with enough willpower, lol. General strength in the Force also plays a part in it.

Ok great. So what, Revan has +5 willpower and Plagueis has +10? Dumb statement because none of it can be proven. I'll concede that Plagueis for sure CAN win this, but that was never a question.

So the consensus is that Vitiate's primary hope for victory here is his ability to mind control Plagueis.

That's not an encouraging sentiment for #teamswotor.

Beefy
As stated repeatedly, we've seen the one way to withstand his attack, which Plagueis won't possess. The "prep" is also not a long period of time.

All Revan did to "resist" the attack was to interrupt Vitiate while the attempt was being made. Plagueis has the feats and accolades in abundance to be capable of interrupting Vitiate.

So the consensus is that Vitiate's primary hope for victory here is his ability to mind control Plagueis.

That's not an encouraging sentiment for #teamswotor.

All Revan did to "resist" the attack was to interrupt Vitiate while the attempt was being made. Plagueis has the feats and accolades in abundance to be capable of interrupting Vitiate.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
It's very encouraging considering there's no proof Plagueis can resist it.

That's not all he did. He talked about it periodically in terms of creating a defense for it, he was prepared for it and he had to channel equal parts light/dark side (oneness) to avoid it. So no, that wasn't all he "did". Please show me what feats and accolades Plagueis has that would be able to withstand such an attack.

That's precisely all he did. The text says while Vitiate had diverted much of his strength to making an attempt to break Revan's mind, Revan attacked him and put him on his ass.

And "oneness" lol. The text never says that.

All Plagueis need do is attack Vitiate while Vitiate is expending the kind of energy needed to break his mind.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Ok great. So what, Revan has +5 willpower and Plagueis has +10? Dumb statement because none of it can be proven. I'll concede that Plagueis for sure CAN win this, but that was never a question.

Plagueis' will was sufficient to imbalance the Force with Palpatine's aid, and with respects to general Force power, he exceeds Revan. He can resist Vitiate's mind powers 👆

Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's precisely all he did. The text says while Vitiate had diverted much of his strength to making an attempt to break Revan's mind, Revan attacked him and put him on his ass.

And "oneness" lol. The text never says that.

All Plagueis need do is attack Vitiate while Vitiate is expending the kind of energy needed to break his mind.

Except you ignore where he discusses creating a defense for it, being READY for Vitiate's attack and channeling light and dark sides equally to do that. Those are 3 pretty important things to consider before thinking Plagueis can win this.

All Plagueis need do is attack Vitiate while Vitiate is expending the kind of energy needed to break his mind.

Plagueis' will was sufficient to imbalance the Force with Palpatine's aid, and with respects to general Force power, he exceeds Revan. He can resist Vitiate's mind powers

Originally posted by MS Warehouse

You're not big on providing evidence are you?

For? The imbalancing of the Force? Surely you've seen the passage?

General strength in the Force? That's my take on it, but it's widely supported, and for good reason. If you have reason to doubt it, then present it.

Originally posted by SunRazer
For? The imbalancing of the Force? Surely you've seen the passage?

General strength in the Force? That's my take on it, but it's widely supported, and for good reason. If you have reason to doubt it, then present it.

You made an argument that because he participated in a weeks/years old ritual with another sith lord, he can deal with Vitiate's mindwipe. If I have to explain to you how ludicrous that sounds, we'll just need to move on.

What's ludicrous is that you can't even comprehend basic sentences, and you have the face (or lack of it) to try and defend yourself after that.