Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's really not. Any feat war you can wage with Plagueis vs Vitiate would probably be rendered mute when you powerscale off Nihilus or Revan.
Neither you nor anyone else has properly quantified the Ravager feat; look, for instance, at how much you delve into Starkiller's frigate feat to mitigate it, and how it would look if the event had been described as vaguely as Nihilus's. We don't know how strong the well was at that part of the planet, how long it took Nihilus to lift it, etc.
In either case, if we're looking at more time-independent cases like the Ravager, Plagueis's unbalancing the Force seems to be far more potent.
And in terms of accolades, Vitiate's status as a "almost godlike" being who consumed the power of eight thousand Sith Lords is certainly sufficient. 👆
Being "almost godlike" =/= being labeled the most powerful sith lord of all time. I know you don't take publisher's blurbs seriously, but I haven't seen any actual case for it beyond Drew's opinion and some whining about how publishers only care about money, which somehow invalidates their creative license (?).
I think it's been proven substantially enough that Plagueis rivals Vitiate as a Force user where Revan proved ultimately no match for him, and now Vitiate is without the aid of a nexus to unleash such a potent attack - feel free to address either of those arguments.
And I imagine with his lightsaber, or maybe a Force push, yeah. The fact that Plagueis has been described at moving at a respectable fraction of the speed of light would suggest he can interrupted Vitiate rather quickly.
The majority of Vitiate's attacks are performed by him focusing and gathering considerable amounts of power, the only attack that wasn't (where Vitiate fired lighting bolts at him in "quick succession"😉 capably handled by Revan. Evidently he was taking his opponent seriously.
This again being within the contexts of Vitiate being able to focus and channel the energies of an intensely powerful nexus:
So there is no guarantee he will be able to unleash powers of this magnitude against Plagueis.
Relative to what the Vitiate-supporters have posted, this is a top contribution.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Neither you nor anyone else has properly quantified the Ravager feat; look, for instance, at how much you delve into Starkiller's frigate feat to mitigate it, and how it would look if the event had been described as vaguely as Nihilus's. We don't know how strong the well was at that part of the planet, how long it took Nihilus to lift it, etc.In either case, if we're looking at more time-independent cases like the Ravager, Plagueis's unbalancing the Force seems to be far more potent.
Even holding the ship together is beyond what Plagueis has shown.
Again, SoR Revan's mere presence caused a galactic disturbance in the Force that impacted powerful Force-users and was maintained until his death.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate was the most powerful Force-user in the galaxy, period. Not a single source implies that a nexus environment was the source of his power.
Nobody denied that he was the strongest of his time; the question is by how much, and whether it puts him above Plagueis. Barely besting Revan while amped by a nexus is not as impressive to any of us as intimidating Palpatine.
The nexus environment of Dromund Kaas was the outcome of his dark practices. Vitiate was powerful enough to alter atmospheric conditions of planet Dromund Kaas, a shift that led to creation of nexus environment in this world.
Untrue, as Beni pointed out, but even if it were, who cares? Over the course of centuries he apparently created a nexus, whereas Plagueis essentially created a dark side nexus across the entire cosmos by meditating for a few months.
BTW, if you want to talk atmospheric conditions, you do realize that Plagueis was able to alter said conditions by a greater degree just by arriving there, right?
Do not forget that Vitiate was just a child when he was dropping Sith Lords left and right in single combat.
He was incredibly precocious, yes, but this doesn't guarantee that his ceiling matches Plagueis's, unless if you think Kyle Katarn has more potential than Anakin.
As for his dismissal of an entire Dark Council, did you forget that this confrontation took place in an even playing field? Or do you think that the nexus environment favored only Vitiate?
He invited them to his fortress, and so obviously had prep time. If he could replicate it on a whim, why does he never use it again, but instead employs far more cumbersome moves?
But Darth Plagueis soundly dismissed Revan-level opponents, right? 🙄
He intimidated Palpatine, yeah.
May I remind you that the mighty Darth Plagueis almost lost to a bunch of assassins? On the contrary, Revan floored entire armies of Sith and Mandalorians in the battlefield.
Plagueis sustained injuries that would have killed most, and still beat them (who were highly trained and experienced in fighting Force users). Mind you, this was before he boosted his midichlorian count and unbalanced the Force.
Was it necessary for Vitiate to attempt such a thing?
I mean he was willing to go through all the effort to create some lightning storms on DM. That's the product of centuries of sorcery; Plagueis exceeds that just by arriving on a planet, and then unbalances the Force itself by meditating really hard.
Sure, Vitiate altered the balance in the same way everyone does; but the Force itself did not feel the need to conjure the Chosen One to stop him.
Right.Vitiate sent Revan flying across the hall
He got one initial strike in on Revan, yes. But then his subsequent lightning attacks were batted back at him, and he had to resort to charging his energies.
and disintegrated T3-M4 with a thought.
Oooooohhhh.
Later on, he gave Lord Scourge (Yoda vs Ventress) treatment, halting his lightsaber strike mid-air without a gesture.
Scourge who?
But you're forgetting the part where he gets knocked on his ass by Revan, almost blindsided by T3-M4, knocked on his ass again by Revan, and then blindsided by Meetra. For all his power, he just isn't a really good fighter.
They are marketing statements.
In other words, you're going to dismiss evidence you don't like for no reason but your personal say-so. I guess we can just dismiss SWTOR altogether, since it's just there for Bioware to make money. 👆
Otherwise Darth Bane is the most powerful Force-user ever.
He was never labeled as such, but nice try.
Regardless, while publisher's blurbs don't need to be taken as infallible, they can't just be dismissed on some flimsy basis that you think publishers are marketers or something.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume it didn't take him months of deep meditation to lift,
You don't know that. Months may be unreasonable, but he may have prepped it. We know that Force users can do more grandiose things when they charge up their energies even for a few seconds.
In terms of actual combat, Plagueis seems far more alert and experienced than Vitiate, and can fight up close.
and that he didn't have a TPM Palpatine Force-user helping him.
He did have an incredibly powerful nexus. Sure, it was before his prime, but then again in his prime wasn't he being constantly amped by feeding off of the Ravager crew or something like that?
Even holding the ship together is beyond what Plagueis has shown.
He didn't hold the ship together, since it was just fine after he died. I also think it's a double standard to dismiss the publisher's blurb purely on an attack on the publishers' literary engagement, but then take verbatim sources that actually don't make any sense (like Nihilus holding the Ravager together).
Again, SoR Revan's mere presence caused a galactic disturbance in the Force that impacted powerful Force-users and was maintained until his death.
But the Force didn't need to create Anakin to put it back into place.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Nobody denied that he was the strongest of his time; the question is by how much, and whether it puts him above Plagueis. Barely besting Revan while amped by a nexus is not as impressive to any of us as intimidating Palpatine.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
You don't know that. Months may be unreasonable, but he may have prepped it. We know that Force users can do more grandiose things when they charge up their energies even for a few seconds.
And that's funny, so then it makes perfect sense Plagueis and Palpatine can wage war when they charge up and enhance their energies in deep meditation.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
In terms of actual combat, Plagueis seems far more alert and experienced than Vitiate, and can fight up close.
Revan has vastly greater experience and "alertness" than Plagueis, and it didn't save him against Vitiate.
He did have an incredibly powerful nexus.
Sure, it was before his prime, but then again in his prime wasn't he being constantly amped by feeding off of the Ravager crew or something like that?
He didn't hold the ship together, since it was just fine after he died.
Avellone likewise stated the ship would have slowly fell apart following his death.
But the Force didn't need to create Anakin to put it back into place.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Ant, what out of universe statements do you take seriously? You won't take publisher's blurbs seriously because you think they're out to make money or something (lol), but you're fine with Avellone, even though he certainly didn't write the entire story by himself.