Great Battles Vol 1: Darth Plagueis vs. Vitiate (Revan novel)

Started by Beniboybling14 pages

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
No, it hasn't been proven substantially. You keep claiming this but repeating the same mantra doesn't make it so. If you want to argue that Plagueis>Revan, feel free but until then, you may cease with the baseless assertions.
This is an ironic thing to say within the contexts of ignoring half my response, shall I assume a concession on that front, or is it pending?

Regardless, on top of what's already been noted, there is Plagueis' combative proximity to Darth Sidious, and the fact his powers are an order of magnitude greater than that of Darth Bane's, neither of which Novel!Revan can claim.

And that fact is irrelevant if Vitiate can mind dominate him before that. As we've seen, thus far the only technique to disrupt the Emperor's mind dominating powers is channeling the light and dark side of the force into oneness or whatever Revan did (after mentally preparing for years). If you want to argue Plagueis can block it, feel free.
So you are making this shit!tier argument after all? Lmao. First of all Revan's Force-in-balance technique wasn't what was responsible for his resistance of Vitiate's TP, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to teach it to Meetra or Scourge. Neither would Lana Beniko or the HoTLander be able to resist his TP also.

To put it bluntly the idea that a special power is needed to counter Vitiate's TP is baseless, whereas the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate he can TP someone of Plagueis calibre, when he has never successfully done so.

Except he was shown to be gathering his energy [b]in the middle of the same fight, and finally overwhelming Revan. Therefore, it doesn't matter when he decides to gather energy if he's shown to do it during a fight, does it?[/b]
That wasn't my point, my point was that he was evidently taking Revan seriously, not holding back as you were suggesting. Regardless though Vitiate was in "the middle of a fight" he still benefitted from the distance between himself and his opponent, Revan simply wasn't able to close the gap in time to prevent him from charging up his attacks, nor did he have the power to interrupt Vitiate by engaging him in a wizard's duel. Plagueis should be capable of both.
Yup, a nexus he intensified simply with his [b]presence.[/b]
Aside from the fact that this doesn't prevent him from using the power already there you are wrong. As I've already said he intensified by performing rituals. I have no idea where you got the notion that he achieved it with his presence alone.
There is no guaranteee Plagueis will be able to withstand his mental domination either. So?
There is also no guarantee that it will start raining men tomorrow, I'm not holding my breath.
Judging by what the Plagueis supporters have offered, not much is required from the Vitiate supporters.
A concession doesn't take much effort to type, true.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume it didn't take him months of deep meditation to lift, and that he didn't have a TPM Palpatine Force-user helping him.

Even holding the ship together is beyond what Plagueis has shown.

Again, SoR Revan's mere presence caused a galactic disturbance in the Force that impacted powerful Force-users and was maintained until his death.

Is there any reason to believe Nihilus didn't achieve this feat by drawing off the Malachor nexus?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Come on, you know that there's a difference here; Palpatine legitimately thought that Plagueis could beat him in a fair fight.
This is confirmed to be the case by Luceno, tbh.

This is an ironic thing to say within the contexts of ignoring half my response, shall I assume a concession on that front, or is it pending?

I didn't see your other response, looks like it came before this one. Will get to that one.

Regardless, on top of what's already been noted, there is Plagueis' combative proximity to Darth Sidious, and the fact his powers are an order of magnitude greater than that of Darth Bane's, neither of which Novel!Revan can claim.

Again with the baseless assumption. You haven't established Plagueis superiority to Revan on any level, you just keep saying Revan isn't above this guy or that guy. I'm going to assume you're too proud to concede on that front.

So you are making this shit!tier argument after all? Lmao.

The irony of this coming from you 👆

First of all Revan's Force-in-balance technique wasn't what was responsible for his resistance of Vitiate's TP, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to teach it to Meetra or Scourge. Neither would Lana Beniko or the HoTLander be able to resist his TP also.

Revan's force balance technique is exactly what did it. If you happen to read the book or even glance at the text Gideon provided, you'd see that.

otherwise he wouldn't have been able to teach it to Meetra or Scourge

Remind me when Vitiate tried to dominate those two? And what does Revan learning how defend against it have to do with him teaching it to others? Or are you saying that he wouldn't be able to teach it, which is even dumber?

Neither would Lana Beniko or the HoTLander be able to resist his TP also.

I don't recall Lana or HoTlander being on the surface when everyone on Ziost was dominated but ok 👆

To put it bluntly the idea that a special power is needed to counter Vitiate's TP is baseless, whereas the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate he can TP someone of Plagueis calibre, when he has never successfully done so.

Not too bright huh? Their is ample proof that a special counter is needed to Vitiate's TP, which Revan discovered painfully. Why would the burden of proof be on me to prove he can TP someone of Plagueis' caliber? I realize your arguments are awful but I don't expect someone to just blatantly shift the burden of proof when they're making all the baseless assertions, so let me help you out. You keep saying Plagueis>Revan, so until you prove that, I don't have to prove Vitiate cam TP someone of Plagueis caliber. While you're at it, go ahead and prove Plagueis is some kind of savant against mind techniques. When you don't, I'll go ahead and accept your concession although you'll undoubtedly attempt to distract and backpedal.

That wasn't my point, my point was that he was evidently taking Revan seriously, not holding back as you were suggesting. Regardless though Vitiate was in "the middle of a fight" he still benefitted from the distance between himself and his opponent, Revan simply wasn't able to close the gap in time to prevent him from charging up his attacks, nor did he have the power to interrupt Vitiate by engaging him in a wizard's duel. Plagueis should be capable of both.

Prove it. I can just respond with "no, he can't", except I'm not holding all the cards in the assertion department.

Aside from the fact that this doesn't prevent him from using the power already there you are wrong. As I've already said he intensified by performing rituals. I have no idea where you got the notion that he achieved it with his presence alone.

Lets see. There's a force nexus, so a force user can do a and b. The force user is powerful enough to intensify the force nexus, therefore the force user can do A and B. He gets credit for intensifying said for nexus to allow himself the ability to do A and B. It's not rocket science.

There is also no guarantee that it will start raining men tomorrow, I'm not holding my breath.

Sure but you're the one continuing to make baseless assertions and desperately shifting the burden of proof.

A concession doesn't take much effort to type, true.

I should expect one from you shortly but I have a feeling you'll continue to drag this out.

Is there any reason to believe Nihilus didn't achieve this feat by drawing off the Malachor nexus?

Is there any proof that he did? We don't need to prove a negative to you.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Is there any reason to believe Nihilus didn't achieve this feat by drawing off the Malachor nexus?

Between the affects of the world, and how far pre prime he was, the nexus isn't remotely relevant.

It's not a simple: pre-prime + nexus = normal.

On what basis is he far from his prime?

And that appears to be your argument. Huh. mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
On what basis is he far from his prime?

And that appears to be your argument. Huh. mmm

As opposed to "is there any reason to believe this DIDNT happen"? 😂

Nihilus would go on to consume Katarr and several other planets, lol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nihilus would go on to consume Katarr and several other planets, lol.

But but.. I'm sure his ship was a nexus!

Beefy's really seems pissed at me, lol.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Beefy's really seems pissed at me, lol.

Yes, I forgot in your mind, laughing at your arguments indicates I'm pissed, lol. Good show Beni, as usual 👆

Beefy is ornery 24/7

Originally posted by Nephthys
Beefy is ornery 24/7

If you think I'm ornery here, you should see me with fortune 500 companies. They wish I was this nice.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Beefy is ornery 24/7
I don't know man, he's been paying special attention to me of late, across multiple threads. mmm

Why is it I never get the nice boys? 🙂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't know man, he's been paying special attention to me of late, across multiple threads. mmm

Why is it I never get the nice boys? 🙂

You mean just today and only this thread where we are engaged in a "debate"? Man, reality must suck, huh?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
On what basis is he far from his prime?

And that appears to be your argument. Huh. mmm


The simple fact he wasn't capable of consuming entire worlds until after studying under Kreia?

Beefy already embarrassed you. I'm surprised you're interested in a round two.

What dates the Ravager feat pre-studying under Kreia?

I have no idea what your on about, but OK friend.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
You mean just today and only this thread where we are engaged in a "debate"? Man, reality must suck, huh?
Being popular is hard yeah, but nah its been going on for a little while now. Maybe with a little sleuthing I can work out when it was I hurt you. mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
What dates the Ravager feat pre-studying under Kreia?

I have no idea what your on about, but OK friend.Being popular is hard yeah, but nah its been going on for a little while now. Maybe with a little sleuthing I can work out when it was I hurt you. mmm

well, you've consistently made up stuff throughout our debates zo I'm not surprised you have to pretend this is an ongoing thing instead of a "today" thing but hey, you're consistent 👆

Originally posted by Beniboybling
What dates the Ravager feat pre-studying under Kreia?

He used the Ravager to leave Malachor in the first place.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
well, you've consistently made up stuff throughout our debates zo I'm not surprised you have to pretend this is an ongoing thing instead of a "today" thing but hey, you're consistent 👆
I taught you how to properly use a thumbs up on kmc. Kudos to me helping the intellectually challenged to learn something.