Originally posted by h1a8
I disagree. Bucking normal punches = human level punches. Show me some punch feats to prove me wrong.
Interesting how you make a claim that Bucky was massively holding back in the scene and then demand I prove your claim wrong. It's like you've never been in a debate before.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Yes you did, I mentioned the scene where Cap withstands several hits of Bucky's metal arm and you respond by saying "I disagree. Bucking normal punches = human level punches." in order to low-ball the feat.
That doesn't mean Bucky was holding back. It means that Bucky can't punch harder than a human can with his real arm. That's what I'm claiming. Prove me wrong.
Originally posted by Khazra Rebornhe can see 2 minutes which always add. Meaning, as each second passes he can see another second into the future. It doesn't run out. He can continue to avoid Caps attacks. He can only lose if he fails to put Cap down before he tires.
How far in the future can this dude see? He could conceivably evade Cap for that amount of time, but it doesn't really matter since some regular guy isn't going to be able to hurt Steve.
Originally posted by h1a8
he can see 2 minutes which always add. Meaning, as each second passes he can see another second into the future. It doesn't run out. He can continue to avoid Caps attacks. He can only lose if he fails to put Cap down before he tires.
It doesn't work like that. It was shown in the beginning when he used his powers to pick Liz up that he basically sees 2 minutes into his future from the time he uses his powers. He can see variables within that 2 minutes(like he beat the guy up and then restarted when Liz didn't like his macho attitude, so he let himself get punched instead). But there's no evidence that he can see beyond 120 seconds.
And there is proof Bucky can hit harder than a normal person with his normal arm. The fact that with that normal arm, he was visibly affecting Cap, and has casually booted men 30 feet as well as outran cars and not getting his arm snatched off by a speeding motorcycle shows he's enhanced similar to Cap.
Originally posted by KingD19
And there is proof Bucky can hit harder than a normal person with his normal arm. The fact that with that normal arm, he was visibly affecting Cap, and has casually booted men 30 feet as well as outran cars and not getting his arm snatched off by a speeding motorcycle shows he's enhanced similar to Cap.
Hits from his normal arm also had a more notable effect on suited up Black Panther than the fire from the helicopter did. Also, the blow that sent unarmoured Stark sailing across the table and out of the fight, when Bucky was mind-controlled, came from his human arm. And people should know he is enhanced by now in anyways. The Winter Soldier program is a key plot point in Civil War.
Originally posted by KingD19
It doesn't work like that. It was shown in the beginning when he used his powers to pick Liz up that he basically sees 2 minutes into his future from the time he uses his powers. He can see variables within that 2 minutes(like he beat the guy up and then restarted when Liz didn't like his macho attitude, so he let himself get punched instead). But there's no evidence that he can see beyond 120 seconds.And there is proof Bucky can hit harder than a normal person with his normal arm. The fact that with that normal arm, he was visibly affecting Cap, and has casually booted men 30 feet as well as outran cars and not getting his arm snatched off by a speeding motorcycle shows he's enhanced similar to Cap.
I never claimed he can see beyond 2 min at a time. At 8pm he can see up into 8:02pm . At 8:01pm he can see until 8:03pm. As each minute passes he can see another minute (but always 2 minutes from the time he's looking from).
Kicking someone 30ft has no bearing on punching strength if catching a bullet has no bearing on fighting and reflex speed.
Outruning slow cars isn't a wonderful feat. Its an ok feat.
Barely affecting Cap. IMO, any strong human can barely affect Cap.
Originally posted by wallman77You never really seen the movies. Ultron never hit him in the face. I don't remember Bucky hitting Cap in the face with the metal arm.
Again ppl taking h1's bait. Who cares how strong his normal arm is. Cap withstood blows from his metal arm like a champ. Cage won't hurt him. He has also taken blows from ultron and IM.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerBullets and punches have different momenta. Bullets can never send a human back like a punch can. That's not a good comparison.
Hits from his normal arm also had a more notable effect on suited up Black Panther than the fire from the helicopter did. Also, the blow that sent unarmoured Stark sailing across the table and out of the fight, when Bucky was mind-controlled, came from his human arm. And people should know he is enhanced by now in anyways. The Winter Soldier program is a key plot point in Civil War.
Originally posted by h1a8
You never really seen the movies. Ultron never hit him in the face. I don't remember Bucky hitting Cap in the face with the metal arm.
You can't say "you never saw the movies" and then not realize in Winter Soldier during the final fight, Bucky got Cap in a full mount and Steve gave up because he didn't want to fight his friend anymore. Bucky went to work on his face with his robo arm and all he got was a slightly split nose.
Originally posted by h1a8
Bullets and punches have different momenta. Bullets can never send a human back like a punch can.
Regular humans don't have those bullets ricocheting off them. Those bullets punch right through them. So obviously they won't knock anyone back, as they go through instead. Panther's suit can withstand the piercing power, so it then becomes a situation of dealing with the amount of energy in the bullet or blow. Hell, someone can be made to budge/react with a hard enough finger poke. Same principle. So it is comparable.
Also, you are absolutely hilarious, telling other people they have not seen the films, yet conveniently forgetting that Bucky hit Steve repeatedly with his metal arm, during the climax of TWS.
Anyway, I am really done with you. Your statement about the punches from Bucky against Cap, in TWS, highlights your ignorance.
The problem is not what he can see.. Think about it. He sees the first future attack, or string of them. Once he dodges it Cap will now come at him differently than before, meaning that what he'd seen is completely useless. He wasn't fighting super humans, he was avoiding the attacks of normal humans. Against someone who will pretty much instantly adapt and come with a new barrage, he will literally be rewinding after every single punch thrown.
Assuming that he plans things so that he can avoid the first strike and then get the gun up, he'd still have to be quick enough with it to get it to a vulnerable point on Steve's head and get a round into his brain.
The only way I see Cap losing is if he not only uses his ability but also employs others with actual powers to aid in taking down Cap.
Originally posted by KingD19His face was busted. (eye and forehead). Now I remember. But again, different scenes have characters operating at different levels. Plus his arm wasn't 100% from the damage it endured. I do give Cap some credit for the showing though. So again, it would take many hits by Cage to put him down.
You can't say "you never saw the movies" and then not realize in Winter Soldier during the final fight, Bucky got Cap in a full mount and Steve gave up because he didn't want to fight his friend anymore. Bucky went to work on his face with his robo arm and all he got was a slightly split nose.
Also know that Cap's skin is significantly less durable than the metal knuckles. Brass knuckles WILL put some major bruising on his face.
Originally posted by AscendancyHe will counter the moment Steve misses the first attack. He's not going to sit there and just dodge. A missed attack will result in a head blow to Steve.
The problem is not what he can see.. Think about it. He sees the first future attack, or string of them. Once he dodges it Cap will now come at him differently than before, meaning that what he'd seen is completely useless. He wasn't fighting super humans, he was avoiding the attacks of normal humans. Against someone who will pretty much instantly adapt and come with a new barrage, he will literally be rewinding after every single punch thrown.Assuming that he plans things so that he can avoid the first strike and then get the gun up, he'd still have to be quick enough with it to get it to a vulnerable point on Steve's head and get a round into his brain.
The only way I see Cap losing is if he not only uses his ability but also employs others with actual powers to aid in taking down Cap.
He was able to dodge a barrage of bullets. He doesn't have to prepare for the entire sequence, he prepares for each move.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Regular humans don't have those bullets ricocheting off them. Those bullets punch right through them. So obviously they won't knock anyone back, as they go through instead. Panther's suit can withstand the piercing power, so it then becomes a situation of dealing with the amount of energy in the bullet or blow. Hell, someone can be made to budge/react with a hard enough finger poke. Same principle. So it is comparable.Also, you are absolutely hilarious, telling other people they have not seen the films, yet conveniently forgetting that Bucky hit Steve repeatedly with his metal arm, during the climax of TWS.
Anyway, I am really done with you. Your statement about the punches from Bucky against Cap, in TWS, highlights your ignorance.
It's not comparable. You can stand there with a 1 inch steel plate wrapped in plastic and Kevlar on your chest. A 50BMG bullet will push you back a little. But if I front kick you in that same plate then I assure you that you will go flying backwards.
I admit that was stupid of me to forget that about Cap getting hit by the arm.. But I addressed it in the above post .