Is Dooku > Vader?

(This applies to Legends)

The evidence from this comes from their respective performances against Obi Wan. Multiple sources, perhaps most in detail the Death Star novel, confirm that Obi Wan had weakened from RotS to ANH, and that Vader was understandably taking the fight seriously. Said sources also describe the battle as either an impasse or a modest tilt in Vader's favor, but hardly as a curbstomp.

Meanwhile, Dooku basically f*cks up Obi Wan at his strongest with minimal effort, first pushing him down and then ragdolling him while kicking Anakin away.

Why didn't Vader just do that if he really were so strong in the Force? You could say that he wanted to make it personal or something, but this doesn't fit with his musings in the Death Star novel, which make it clear that he was leaving absolutely nothing up to chance. The other explanation is that Obi Wan declined as a duelist but grew considerably stronger in the Force - this is possible, but never really mentioned or hinted at in any of the source material. And none of that would refute the evidence that Dooku is the superior duelist.

After all, we know that the original intention was for Vader to be a shell of his former self, a view that changed after TFU unleashed came out. So Vader's edge over Dooku in Legends comes primarily from his spectacular feats in one franchise. Are those feats even better than Dooku's own cruiser ragdolling?

Nope.

Fascinating argument. 👆

I thought I'd give you a response about on par with the quality you put out. 👆

Yes. Dooku = Mace > Vader.

Lol Syndicate isn't having a good day.

Anyway, I think it's possible that Ben Kenobi is just much more powerful than he used to be in the Force, but inferior as a duelist. But it's not inconceivable that Vader just isn't as good.

Ben Kenobi is nothing. His physicals are terrible and he's old, with shit augmentation. He's weak

I'm having a fine day actually. Pretty blue sky, some videos I'd been waiting for for a while recently came out and I got a test back with a 95. All in all pretty satisfied.

Anyway, I think it's possible that Ben Kenobi is just much more powerful than he used to be in the Force

Given the text outright states that one would assume that would be the case.

You're welcome to share the passage. 👆

"This is a fight you cannot win, Darth. Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting." - A New Hope.

I believe Wolf Myth has various other quotes for Ben's growth in power as well.

^^
Alongside the fact Kenobi's power potentially increased, canon has also told us that Vader became a "far more formidable foe" following the events of ANH. So his showing during that duel with old Ben isn't indicative to what a peak RotJ Vader would perform.

Also, holistically, Vader is just painted to be a bigger deal than Dooku is in the grand scheme of this, tbh.

If we're taking the quote of Vader becoming far more formidable after ANH, then we also have to take the quote that Vader was a mere shadow of his former self in ANH.

Ben didn't say that in the movie, but if we ignore that part...are we supposed to trust Ben's trash talking over that of third party sources and Vader's own observation?

That refers to mastery, anyway.

Vader's been featured in hundreds of works, but only one puts him above Dooku.

If you exclusively look at legends, sure. Canonically, Vader.

"You still have your skill, but your power fades." - Empire Strikes Back novel

What do you guys make of Vader saying that to Ben? Just taunting him?

You have to be a little dense, and perhaps a little inebriated to believe Kenobi is not completely out of his prime by the time ANH. He might be wiser and more attuned to the Force in way that manifests his identity after a physical death, but anything relating to combat, particularly lightsaber combat, has taken a sharp decline asunder. This is not just the most logical interpratation, but it's also one supported by several sources:

"Obi-Wan's movements were slowed by age and lack of practice"

- Lightsabers: A Guide to the Weapons of the Force

"He still had some skill, his old Master did, but he was out of practice. Vader could feel it through the Force."

- Source: Death Star

"When Obi-Wan Kenobi duels his former apprentice Darth Vader aboard the Death Star, both combatants know they are but shadows of their former selves."

- Source: Fightsaber Article

"We've actually never seen real Jedi at work, we've only seen crippled half-droid half-men and young boys that have learned from these old people. So to see a Jedi in his prime fighting in the prime of the Jedi, I want it to be a much more energetic and faster version of what we've been doing"

- George Lucas, Star Wars Episode I: Fights Featurette

Originally posted by SunRazer
If we're taking the quote of Vader becoming far more formidable after ANH, then we also have to take the quote that Vader was a mere shadow of his former self in ANH.

TFU is the only thing that really throws the quote outta wack, honestly.