Darth Plagueis/Palpatine's Meditation War Never Created Anakin Skywalker

Started by NewGuy0115 pages
Originally posted by SunRazer
Ant's becoming like Revan now. He thinks he's doing good for everyone by vanquishing the evil of Plagueis wank, but he doesn't realize the abomination that he's become. 👆

https://youtu.be/6LrxFsr-CAc?t=75

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Guys, the Force obviously wanted Plagueis and Sidious to be able to abuse it, and shred the laws of nature. It just birthed Anakin because... reasons. 👆

There is a difference between wanting something and not doing anything to retaliate.

If we assume the Force retaliated to the meditation, we would have to assume it predicted the future.

If so, then it could have retaliated to the countless other greater disturbances, like the rise of the Galactic Empire.

So, your position is baseless. 👆

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
There is a difference between wanting something and not doing anything to retaliate.

What exactly is that distinction, when the person in question is a nigh-omnisicient, nigh-omnipotent energy field? Also, if the Force didn't offer any resistance, then why would it have taken Palpatine and Plagueis months of intense meditation to assert their will over it's? Your argument frankly rates a zero on the common sense meter; you're trying to shove a square peg into a circular keyhole to further a failing agenda.

The distinction is the fact the Force didn't provide any resistance to any disturbance ever recorded. 😐

It took them that long to ultimately spread their power across the galaxy. 👆

Don't forget that Ant questions whether Plagueis or Sidious caused an imbalance in the first place, since the only mention of it is from Sidious and Plagueis' perspective, apparently.

50% chance it never happened. 👆

😂

Don't you realize how foolish you sound Ant?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The distinction is the fact the Force didn't provide any resistance to any disturbance ever recorded. 😐

Ah, that's where you were going with that. The thing is, though, the situations are completely different. We've seen time and again that the currents of the Force shift naturally with the state of the galaxy, just like they do on a planetary and even personal level. In contrast, Palpatine and Plagueis' ritual was a defiance of nature that forcibly warped the Force in their favor; that's why it retaliated.

Like Luceno(?) said, Midichlorian Manipulation is not a show of power. It's not because the Sith became more powerful that they gained the ability to freely manipulate midichlorians when they couldn't before; it's because the Force had been undermined, and could no longer resist the attempts directly. That's why Anakin Skywalker was necessary--Palpatine's and Plagueis' imbalancing of the Force is on a completely different scale and of a completely different nature than natural imbalances.

All that mattered was that, almost a decade earlier, they had succeeded in willing the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side. Not a mere paradigm shift, but a tangible alteration that could be felt by anyone strong in the Force, and whether or not trained in the Sith or Jedi arts.

The Force never retaliated against Darth Tenebrous' master's actions, bar the +1 to the Chosen One creation fund. 😬

And frankly, Darth Tenebrous' master's actions were almost indisputably more dangerous than Palpatine and Plagueis' meditation.

And that's not what Luceno said. He said that it was Plagueis' unwavering determination that unlocked the gateway, not that the Force was weakened.

Also, you're forgetting the fact the meditation took place after Anakin's birth anyway.

No, that's not a continuity error. You'd have to prove that with a quote.

Horrible comparison, Ant. The fact that the Jedi could feel the dark side for the first time didn't necessitate the Force to create a Chosen One, lol. The Force wasn't even particularly imbalanced there. Certainly not on the same scale as Plagueis/Sidious' effect.

No, because the dark side had been growing in strength and sowing chaos and destruction for a thousand years.

Darth Tenebrous' master's actions revealed a thousand years of dark side influence and corruption.

And it only happened by literally ripping into the fabric of the Force itself.

The former being far more insane than spreading influence about the Force without resistance.

Opening a small rend in the Force's fabric that enabled the Jedi to feel the dark side isn't the same as forcibly imbalancing the Force itself.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And frankly, Darth Tenebrous' master's actions were almost indisputably more dangerous than Palpatine and Plagueis' meditation.

Guess not.

And that's not what Luceno said. He said that it was Plagueis' unwavering determination that unlocked the gateway, not that the Force was weakened.

Are you playing dumb? Plagues' unwavering determination/strength of will is what cowed the Force, i.e "the gateway" that had locked him out previously. 😬

Originally posted by SunRazer
Opening a small rend in the Force's fabric that enabled the Jedi to feel the dark side isn't the same as forcibly imbalancing the Force itself.

Ripping open the fabric of the Force, in which the thousand years of dark side influence would be revealed, isn't forcibly imbalancing the Force, yeah.

The former is far more impressive. 👆

Ant's calling out Tenebrous' master's actions as superior to Plagueis' on no evidential basis at all. Your case relies on a number of unproven assumptions which you use confident wording to create the illusion of substantiation for, but in reality, they're not substantiated at all.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Guess not.

Are you playing dumb? Plagues' unwavering determination is what cowed the Force, i.e "the gateway" that had locked him out previously. 😬

👇

That's speculating then. I don't care for that.

Again, it happened after Anakin was born.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Ant's calling out Tenebrous' master's actions as superior to Plagueis' on no evidential basis at all. Your case relies on a number of unproven assumptions which you use confident wording to create the illusion of substantiation for, but in reality, they're not substantiated at all.

Irony at its finest.

My case requires no assumptions.

The math states that Anakin was born prior to the meditation.

Anything else being said is speculation on your part.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ripping open the fabric of the Force, in which the thousand years of dark side influence would be revealed, isn't forcibly imbalancing the Force, yeah.

The former is far more impressive. 👆

What would be revealed is irrelevant. That's an entirely separate setup. The rend is basically a window into all of the other things being done by the Sith.

Forcibly imbalancing the Force itself is far beyond merely creating a window into other imbalances and manipulations of the Force.

Exhibit A is opening a window into a dark, stormy world. Exhibit B is actually creating the storm. They don't compare, lol.