You can label it speculation if you like, but it's more in line with basic human reasoning skills. GL told us that Sidious was the source of the imbalance in the Force, and that the prophecy of the Chosen One was all about Anakin killing him as the means of restoring balance. To claim that Anakin's birth and Sidious' domination of the Force are unrelated is absolutely laughable.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Irony at its finest.My case requires no assumptions.
The math states that Anakin was born prior to the meditation.
Anything else being said is speculation on your part.
Your case is assumptions.
I'm talking about your comparisons between Plagueis/Sidious' machinations and those of Tenebrous' master, among others.
The Force isn't bound by time, lol. It only needs to spawn something that'll destroy the Sith, and the only reason it cares enough to do that is because the Sith are beginning to bend the Force to their will.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
You can label it speculation if you like, but it's more in line with basic human reasoning skills. GL told us that Sidious was the source of the imbalance in the Force, and that the prophecy of the Chosen One was all about Anakin killing him as the means of restoring balance. To claim that Anakin's birth and Sidious' domination of the Force are unrelated is absolutely laughable.
I never stated Palpatine had no influence over Anakin Skywalker's creation.
I stated Darth Plagueis had no quantifiable influence over Anakin Skywalker's creation.
Fun fact: Palpatine = / = Plagueis.
Originally posted by SunRazer
The Force isn't bound by time, lol. It only needs to spawn something that'll destroy the Sith, and the only reason it cares enough to do that is because the Sith are beginning to bend the Force to their will.
👆
That moment you realize when even the Jedi knew that Anakin would be born thousands of years before it happened. 😂
Fun fact: Palpatine = / = Palpatine.
Fun fact: You might be insane.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Your case is assumptions.I'm talking about your comparisons between Plagueis/Sidious' machinations and those of Tenebrous' master, among others.
The Force isn't bound by time, lol. It only needs to spawn something that'll destroy the Sith, and the only reason it cares enough to do that is because the Sith are beginning to bend the Force to their will.
The date of the meditation is fact.
The date of Anakin's birth is fact.
The meditation taking place after the birth is fact.
It's that simple.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What part of my case is assumptions?The date of the meditation is fact.
The date of Anakin's birth is fact.
The meditation taking place after the birth is fact.
It's that simple.
And the fact that the Force is bound by time and has to wait for Palpatine/Plagueis to keep up before creating Anakin is an assumption and contradicted by other sources (the Mortis arc, the entire nature of the Prophecy of the Chosen One, etc.)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
👆That moment you realize when even the Jedi knew that Anakin would be born thousands of years before it happened. 😂
Not to mention that the Son was able to show Anakin direct visions of the future. If the Son, a personification of one half of the Force, was able to "break the laws of time", in the Father's words, then what prohibits the Force itself from doing so?
Originally posted by SunRazer
And the fact that the Force is bound by time and has to wait for Palpatine/Plagueis to keep up before creating Anakin is an assumption and contradicted by other sources (the Mortis arc, the entire nature of the Prophecy of the Chosen One, etc.)
😂
That's not an assumption I'm making.
You're the one making the assumption that the Force knew about the event before it happened, and then acted to it.
I'm merely stating the above is speculation, and thus we don't know the cause of Anakin Skywalker's birth.
I've supplied theories and speculation on why, but don't mistake that with the core facts of my case, which you're doing.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not... really, though. Looking through the thread now, and the source you linked even says it's an approximation. 😕
That's already been addressed.
The approximation has to do with the fact it's only one decimal point.
That being said, another source lists Anakin's birth as 7:4 BrS.
Thus, we have both the year and month of his birth. 👆
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
😂That's not an assumption I'm making.
[b]You're the one making the assumption that the Force knew about the event before it happened, and then acted to it.
I'm merely stating the above is speculation, and thus we don't know the cause of Anakin Skywalker's birth.
I've supplied theories and speculation on why, but don't mistake that with the core facts of my case. [/B]
The Force knows the future, lol.
That's why it showed Revan the vision of Meetra coming to rescue him. That's why it showed Scourge the vision of the HoT defeating the Emperor. That's why it showed Traya the visions of everything she tells you about at the end of KotOR II. That's why Pong Krell foresees the destruction of the Jedi Order. That's why Sidious foresees almost everything. That's how Plagueis was able to foresee the rise of Darth Vader. That's why the Son could show Anakin visions of the events in RotS.
These things are all perpetuated by the Force, and yet you think the Force itself can't supersede the laws of time? Your argument relies on the assumption that the Force has to wait up for Palpatine and Plagueis to do something before it can "catch up" to them. And simply put, not only is that assumption completely unsupported, but outright contradicted by all of the examples I gave you.
Suggesting that the Force doesn't know about the future, doesn't know about events before they happen, etc, is downright ludicrous.
@Nova: Holy shit, are you brain dead?
I said your assumption was that the Force specifically produced Anakin as a response to that event ahead of time.
That is an indisputable speculation.
My argument doesn't remotely demand the Force not knowing the future in any way, shape, or form.
Acknowledge this instead of saying the same thing over and over again like a mindless droid.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Thus, we have both the year and month of his birth. 👆
Then, has it been addressed that although the Force only yielded roughly eight years before sometime during 33 BBY, that Palpatine and Plagueis only succeeded after several months of exercising their will over the Force? That would have been an opportune time for the Force to retaliate without having to "predict the future" (even though it had already been foreseen by Jedi millennia before the event) as well.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
@Nova: Holy shit, are you brain dead?I said [b]your assumption was that the Force specifically produced Anakin as a response to that event ahead of time.
That is an indisputable speculation.
My argument doesn't remotely demand the Force not knowing the future in any way, shape, or form.
Acknowledge this instead of saying the same thing over and over again like a mindless droid. [/B]
That's because you're relying on the facts being handed out to you like Halloween treats and not actually trying to think for yourself. And at the very least, my points naturally debunk your claim that it's an impossibility for Palpatine/Plagueis to have caused the conception of Anakin Skywalker. Even in your brain-damaged state, you have to admit that it's now at least a possibility for Palpatine/Plagueis to have caused the conception of Anakin, as opposed to the "impossibility" that you claimed it was earlier.
By the way, NewGuy's right. The meditation might've culminated in 41BBY, but if it took months, it may well have been initiated earlier and before Anakin's birth.
Originally posted by SunRazer
That's because you're relying on the facts being handed out to you like Halloween treats and not actually trying to think for yourself. And at the very least, my points naturally debunk your claim that it's an impossibility for Palpatine/Plagueis to have caused the conception of Anakin Skywalker.
Ultimately, I don't care if there is a chance Palpatine/Plagueis could have caused it.
All I care is that since it's not proven, it can't be used in debates.
And that being said, given how limited your speculation is, it's virtually impossible, yeah.