Mr. Miyagi vs Chen Zhen (Donnie Yen)

Originally posted by Nibedicus
No. He is asking you to prove your 200mph assertion to a panel of unbiased judges. With the way you keep insisting on your opinion, it should be easy.

Right now, you're just trying to weasel out of having to back up what you infer, as always.

Now proving the speed it TAKES to break the tops off empty bottles is another story. But what good is that when it's going to shot down by another argument.

So I'll change my argument to
Miyagi moved his hand with superhuman speeds (speed faster than Chen or Ip man). No numbers to prove.

Originally posted by h1a8
He's asking me to prove it by using visual speed. It's impossible because the actor moved slower than that.

Now proving the speed it TAKES to break the tops off empty bottles is another story. But what good is that when it's going to shot down by another argument.

So I'll change my argument to
Miyagi moved his hand with superhuman speeds (speed faster than Chen or Ip man). No numbers to prove.

So Daniel and the bozos all have superhuman reaction speed and eyesight as they all watched Miyagi chop the bottles. Daniel asked him right after how he did it.

How fast is Chen Zhen moving when he hits someone and they go flying? Or to dodge bullets and run practically horizontally to the ground?

Originally posted by h1a8
He's asking me to prove it by using visual speed. It's impossible because the actor moved slower than that.

Now proving the speed it TAKES to break the tops off empty bottles is another story. But what good is that when it's going to shot down by another argument.

So I'll change my argument to
Miyagi moved his hand with superhuman speeds (speed faster than Chen or Ip man). No numbers to prove.

Pls quote where he said that you could only prove it via visual speed.

Otherwise, either take his challenge or concede.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Pls quote where he said that you could only prove it via visual speed.

Otherwise, either take his challenge or concede.

Funny thing is he constantly tries to apply the visual speed thing to Cap. The Cap vs Angel Dust thread being just the latest example.

Miyagi is apparently superfast, even though he looks slow as shit, because he broke bottles and caught an arrow, but Cap is slow because H1 thinks he looks slow, despite the fact that he has multiple showings in the films that would require enhanced speed to achieve.

Edit: By the same standards he is trying to apply here, Cap's combat speed is actually very fast, considering he has landed hits on characters like Black Panther, who has actually dodged and caught multiple arrows from Hawkeye, in the middle of combat. Or tagged Iron Man, who dodged a tank shell in IM1.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Pls quote where he said that you could only prove it via visual speed.

Otherwise, either take his challenge or concede.

It's an inside thing between us that has been going on for a while.
He's a firm proponent of visual speed is true speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
That's the speed it takes to do the feat.
Now we can argue that the feat was PIS since it's beyond human ability. But if we take the feat seriously then it takes low end bullet speed (somewhere over 200mph).

Sorry, but ****ing comic book Batman can't fight at 200mph.

No human, even humans with superhuman speed, can fight at 200mph.

Can you post what feat you're talking about?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Funny thing is he constantly tries to apply the visual speed thing to Cap. The Cap vs Angel Dust thread being just the latest example.

Miyagi is apparently superfast, even though he looks slow as shit, because he broke bottles and caught an arrow, but Cap is slow because H1 thinks he looks slow, despite the fact that he has multiple showings in the films that would require enhanced speed to achieve.

Edit: By the same standards he is trying to apply here, Cap's combat speed is actually very fast, considering he has landed hits on characters like Black Panther, who has actually dodged and caught multiple arrows from Hawkeye, in the middle of combat. Or tagged Iron Man, who dodged a tank shell in IM1.

To punch Colossus 50feet away or more required superspeed.
So Angel Dust is pretty fast. Plus she easily caught Colossus punch.

Anyway, yes I used a double standard. When arguing Cap I refered to visual speed by habit due to Silent Master being the proponent of that argument. I started arguing visual speed as a joke in order to make Silent's argument backfire. It did. But the joke became a habit that I actually used it seriously against Rage. This was a mistake.
Visual speed is irrelevant if the feat requires significantly greater speed.

So I will not joke anymore. My take is speed required to do a feat is true speed.

Finally, speed can not be judged on the ability to tag someone. This is because there exists counterevidence to contradict it.
For example, Spidey, Superman, etc being tagged by slower than bullet speeds.

And ABC logic does not work when characters are known to operate at different levels at different times (even in real life). A character dodging a bullet only to get hit by another character doesn't mean that character is faster than a bullet. You can't equate a character's highest showings with other showings.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's an inside thing between us that has been going on for a while.
He's a firm proponent of visual speed is true speed.

Stope weaseling.

Accept it or concede.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
You didn't graduate from elementary school, did you?

Sorry, but ****ing comic book Batman can't fight at 200mph.

No human, even humans with superhuman speed, can fight at 200mph.

Can you post what feat you're talking about?

The feat could be PIS. We can argue that. But to break the tops of empty bottles without knocking them over requires superhuman speed. I dismissed my 200mph argument as just a superhuman speed argument.

Originally posted by h1a8
To punch Colossus 50feet away or more required superspeed.
So Angel Dust is pretty fast. Plus she easily caught Colossus punch.

Anyway, yes I used a double standard. When arguing Cap I refered to visual speed by habit due to Silent Master being the proponent of that argument. I started arguing visual speed as a joke in order to make Silent's argument backfire. It did. But the joke became a habit that I actually used it seriously against Rage. This was a mistake.
Visual speed is irrelevant if the feat requires significantly greater speed.

So I will not joke anymore. My take is speed required to do a feat is true speed.

Finally, speed can not be judged on the ability to tag someone. This is because there exists counterevidence to contradict it.
For example, Spidey, Superman, etc being tagged by slower than bullet speeds.

And ABC logic does not work when characters are known to operate at different levels at different times (even in real life). A character dodging a bullet only to get hit by another character doesn't mean that character is faster than a bullet. You can't equate a character's highest showings with other showings.

Well, whatever angle you use to argue, just try to be consistent across threads. Otherwise, it reflects badly on all your arguments, which doesn't help convincing others of your stance.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, whatever angle you use to argue, just try to be consistent across threads. Otherwise, it reflects badly on all your arguments, which doesn't help convincing others of your stance.

H1 decides who he wants to win and then tailors his argument to get the outcome he wants. seriously, just read through several of his threads and you'll notice that his standards for proof vary.

Angel Dust doesn't have super speed. She has super strength. Its a power.

Originally posted by KingD19
Angel Dust doesn't have super speed. She has super strength. Its a power.

Yeah, generating superhuman levels of force can be explained by greater muscle efficiency than a normal human being. A good example is the video where the scientists actually test that freakishly strong guy from Stan Lee's Superhumans. He doesn't physically move any faster than a normal person, but he can activate much more muscle fibers than a regular human can, leading to accelerated bursts of electrical activity in the muscles themselves, but not necessarily acceleration in visible limb speed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
H1 decides who he wants to win and then tailors his argument to get the outcome he wants. seriously, just read through several of his threads and you'll notice that his standards for proof vary.

H1's new mechanism when exposed in his double standards: "I was just joking".

I have a feeling this might be his new M.O. whenever he gets caught in any his logical mishaps.

Let's wait and see.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, whatever angle you use to argue, just try to be consistent across threads. Otherwise, it reflects badly on all your arguments, which doesn't help convincing others of your stance.

You should have posted an 👆 instead.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
H1's new mechanism when exposed in his double standards: "I was just joking".

I have a feeling this might be his new M.O. whenever he gets caught in any his logical mishaps.

Let's wait and see.

I never said I was joking on the double standard he pointed out (I was serious and wrong). I was joking before that though, pretending so that Silent can see how unsound his angle is. I just got so carried away I started believing in the BS.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, generating superhuman levels of force can be explained by greater muscle efficiency than a normal human being. A good example is the video where the scientists actually test that freakishly strong guy from Stan Lee's Superhumans. He doesn't physically move any faster than a normal person, but he can activate much more muscle fibers than a regular human can, leading to accelerated bursts of electrical activity in the muscles themselves, but not necessarily acceleration in visible limb speed.

Striking power is a factor of speed and unstoppability.
Unstoppability has the factors of mass and strength.
Speed has the factor of strength.

In other words, under small mass of a fist, great speed is needed for great striking power. Without it then then unstoppability (without great speed) would only push you back and not crush or send something flying away.

Originally posted by KingD19
Angel Dust doesn't have super speed. She has super strength. Its a power.

No she didn't. Her power is she produces massive amounts of adrenaline on command to give herself strength/durability. That's why Wade stunned her with a headbutt when she was normal.

Just like Colossus is strong/durable because he's solid metal.

Here we have h1 using real world physics when it suits him. Ignoring basic movie/comic/superhero tropes of super strength = punches hard.