When it comes to character vs character, feats are useless. When one character has thousands of appearances and the other has little. Mainstream hero's and the more popular characters are allowed to win to save the day. The bad guy will not win and take over the comic and rule the planet. Superman, Thor, Spiderman etc will be allowed to win against characters that by design should crush them. That's the climax of the story, bad guy shows up, kicks hero around, looks good a few pages then eats dirt in the end. Hero saves the day as always. But on a forum battle, there is no story, no climax and no writer trying to figure out how the hero will win to make a good story. In other words, the more popular or mainstream character does not have writer protection, bad guy cannot beat the writers pen. Forum battles require powersets to come into play. Knowing characters powersets give us an idea of what they "should' really be able to do against each other. For every hero "plus feat" there is a "negative" to offset. Forum battles are basically us taking characters as if they are real and going at it and WILL get beaten to death by powerset not by writers design.
Originally posted by JBL
When it comes to character vs character, feats are useless. When one character has thousands of appearances and the other has little. Mainstream hero's and the more popular characters are allowed to win to save the day. The bad guy will not win and take over the comic and rule the planet. Superman, Thor, Spiderman etc will be allowed to win against characters that by design should crush them. That's the climax of the story, bad guy shows up, kicks hero around, looks good a few pages then eats dirt in the end. Hero saves the day as always. But on a forum battle, there is no story, no climax and no writer trying to figure out how the hero will win to make a good story. In other words, the more popular or mainstream character does not have writer protection, bad guy cannot beat the writers pen. Forum battles require powersets to come into play. Knowing characters powersets give us an idea of what they "should' really be able to do against each other. For every hero "plus feat" there is a "negative" to offset. Forum battles are basically us taking characters as if they are real and going at it and WILL get beaten to death by powerset not by writers design.
I DEFINITIVELY resolved this issue on pages SIX and SEVEN of this thread.
TURN FROM YOUR MISGUIDED RAGE AND BECOME ENLIGHTENED THROUGH THE TEACHINGS OF THE HOUSE OF EL!!!
This is a complex issue to explain to someone with your reading comprehension skills and your level of intellect.
It requires two things that you lack
Reading comprehension skills and common sense.
The effort is there but that is not enough buddy. Just keep looking at the pretty pictures.
If you develop someway, somehow a comon sense it will be great because then the only thing left it will be to develop your reading comprehension skills.
But work first on your common sense.
Just kidding 😛 or am I?
Originally posted by leonidas
the question has no answer tbh because people will value whichever showing (extraneous feats or either direct combat showings or abc combat showings) they feel best supports their own case, on a case-by-case basis. that isn't a veiled shot at anyone. if i'm bored and feel like playing devil's advocate, i'm as guilty of this as anyone else at picking and choosing. in truth though, even from an objective pov, there really IS no answer. the orion/hulk comparison is as apt as any and illustrates why BOTH sides of the argument have a legitimate point.hulk's strength feats sh!t all over orion. no one who knows anything about comics can really argue the point (like flash being faster than ss). even if orion fans (of which i am one) could name 3 hulk-style strength feats, for each of those 3 hulk might have....a dozen feats? so, by feats the comparison should be lop-sided.
but the other side can argue from the peer angle (AKA abc logic). by direct comparison orion has performed well against all of dc's top tier people and has appeared at times to even surpass the likes of darkseid.
both sides are equally valid pov's. so how do you resolve the issue? you can't. the best you can do is attempt to reasonably weigh the 2 sides and decide which carries the greater weight (no pun intended, or noticed prolly....lol). in this case, since orion doesn't have many lifting feats to go on, we're left with only the one side to really reason from. is it reasonable to say that if orion can match darkseid in strength and direct combat, even besting him on at least one occasion, he can give hulk holy hell in a fist fight?
i think it's perfectly reasonable. would hulk win a fistfight the majority of the time? certainly, but it is by no means spite, or a stomp any more than hulk would stomp thor in a fistfight.
regarding the question of whether someone is 'weakened' by writers (AKA pis) to make for a better fight? well, that's what makes the question unsolvable. if pis is claimed, then direct comparison using on-panel battles, becomes meaningless to those who claim pis is involved and so one entire pov is thrown out by one side then the argument degenerates into one of validity. and of course not everyone always agrees there WAS pis then you have a huge mess....
generally, where direct combat results are close, extraneous feats can help determine probable winners, but it boils down to what the individual deems most valuable (or what best defends their side...) combat comparisons or feats. your question can't be answered because in many cases there IS no correct answer. /shrug
Always thought it was funny how CBR gave New Gods like Orion or Darkseid a pass on strength or speed feats relative to Superman. Yet when it comes to Gladiator, they become sticklers and weigh it against Supes..
Or with Shiva, they're argued up and down she doesn't have the feats to be a bullet timer, and her several showings against Cassandra Cain don't mean anything..
I don't think putting Superman up against Odin would be spite. His strength, speed, and durability would be largely irrelevant against Odin IMO.
To be fair, people have said he isn't actually a galaxy buster or that it doesn't count. So who knows.
You could substitute Odin for Galactus though. He has speed feats well beyond Galactus, and probably physical strength feats well beyond anything Galactus has shown. He still dies horribly in a fight against Big G.
Originally posted by Surtur
I don't think putting Superman up against Odin would be spite. His strength, speed, and durability would be largely irrelevant against Odin IMO.To be fair, people have said he isn't actually a galaxy buster or that it doesn't count. So who knows.
You could substitute Odin for Galactus though. He has speed feats well beyond Galactus, and probably physical strength feats well beyond anything Galactus has shown. He still dies horribly in a fight against Big G.
That was before the merge.
Superman as he is now can definitely take on Odin.
Originally posted by cdtm
Always thought it was funny how CBR gave New Gods like Orion or Darkseid a pass on strength or speed feats relative to Superman. Yet when it comes to Gladiator, they become sticklers and weigh it against Supes..Or with Shiva, they're argued up and down she doesn't have the feats to be a bullet timer, and her several showings against Cassandra Cain don't mean anything..
Huh? When I was at CBR Gladiators speed was acknowledged.
I'm also not sure what you mean by Orion getting a pass on speed feats. He never showed Superman level speed, he did show bullet timing levels of speed. He was granted around that level of speed.
Originally posted by Surtur
Huh? When I was at CBR Gladiators speed was acknowledged.I'm also not sure what you mean by Orion getting a pass on speed feats. He never showed Superman level speed, he did show bullet timing levels of speed. He was granted around that level of speed.
CBR says Gladiator blitz's Superman.
As does Surfer.
Never seen that argument for Superman against Orion.
Originally posted by cdtm
CBR says Gladiator blitz's Superman.As does Surfer.
Never seen that argument for Superman against Orion.
Their system for speed feats is terminally broken.
Under their strict feat based system, certain versions of Storm Shadow blitz the hell out of Snake Eyes. It doesn't matter that Snake Eyes had his number in every fight, he doesn't have the feats and his rival does.
Batman blocks a bloodlusted Artemis' axe strike with his arms.
What can Artemis do?
Throws metal train doors like they were made of cardboard:
https://s5.postimg.org/kl6gv6ik7/rh1.jpg
https://s5.postimg.org/k8f2ozd53/rh2.jpg
Edit: Axe strike AND sword, lol.
