WW 3 Black Adam Vs Beta Ray Bill

Originally posted by cdtm
Adam would have wrecked Superman, too.

In his own title, shortly before WW III the point was made that a fighting mad Superman couldn't even move Adam out of the center of his city.

Supes certainly got his licks in, but didn't look nearly as impressive as you'd expect against someone who WAS.NOT.FIGHTING.BACK.

Originally posted by leonidas
like I said, we're not going to see eye to eye on this one i'm afraid. no disrespect, I just think this was a case of spotlight power.

galan is right--had the group fought effectively, adam would have been crushed by that group. we've seen b&t thor beating the watch+ss+strange (or was strange after the gem...?) we've seen mindless hulk beating all the avengers, we've seen hal go crazy and slaughter hosts of gl's and seen support he could single-handedly beat the league. in exiles ss went crazy and couldn't be stopped. king hyperion is another alternate example. I guess I lump ww3 adam in with all that--great showings against large collections of characters that seem really impressive but those they fight just never seem to fight all that well, to say the least.

but then you go ahead and say you don't think, given all this, that superman would be counted among those he'd have wrecked? I 100% agree with you, btw: superman would most certainly NOT have been wrecked. or he would have gotten po'd and stepped up and stopped adam. or marvel would have. and if I believe THEY would have/could have, I believe this fight would be close, as would fights between this adam and any legit high herald. /shrug

again, all my opinion, but it's weird we can agree on one piece, and be so disparate in our other beliefs.

galan, jun, you think adam would have destroyed superman had he shown up and gone 1on1? the way adam's being talked about, it seems almost certain that to accept this showing at face value would imply a belief that he would take down superman, no?

Had Wonderwoman not snapped Max Lord's neck, Superman would have done much worse.
In fact, when Booster used Time Travel and saved Ted Kord, mind controlled Superman conquered Earth, off panel.

Originally posted by Juntai
Had Wonderwoman not snapped Max Lord's neck, Superman would have done much worse.
In fact, when Booster used Time Travel and saved Ted Kord, mind controlled Superman conquered Earth, off panel.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Speculation and an alternate reality.

The sole voice of reason in an irrational world. Keep on keeping on, my friend.

Originally posted by cdtm
The sole voice of reason in an irrational world. Keep on keeping on, my friend.

😆

Originally posted by Delta1938
😆

Don't even know why he said that. Superman was ready to attack Wonder Woman and she still had the speed to take off her tiara and slice Superman throat. She could've pressed her attack and ended it but she put that attention on Max lord while he held his throat. His post was all wrong...Juanti.

Preach.

🙂

@phil: cool. 👆

one thing that stood out though, and it's off topic but we're already there so..... I agree lack of feats for bill makes it tough here for me. my argument DOES hinge on some abc logic, but in this case I think it's pretty well founded, namely comparing thor and bill. you think adam would destroy thor as well, even though thor DEF has the feats to match adam? legit curious. I gte if you say thor>bill, the 2 aren't interchangeable, and you'd be right to point it out. i'm just curious if this were thor if things would be viewed differently.

Originally posted by Galan007
When the poster child of DC shows up, he is going to put ANY character in the corner -- especially if he is the last/only person left to stop said threat(s)... Cosmological status be damned.

As I've said many, many times over the years: when he wants/needs to be, Superman > ALL. If nothing else, he has certainly proven that much over the years. 👆

fair enough. superman is a special case, granted. but you really think that adam in that arc would ruin guys like ss and thor, a really po'd hulk? or from dc someone like marvel or an out for blood Diana? (and I know there has been some indication that pg/ww are pretty close, but i'd think most who knew the 2 would take ww for a heavy majority--ww seems to be damn near a match for marvel.....and pg seems nowhere CLOSE to adam in several confrontations....) I dunno man, like I said to phil, I just don't see it, and I could genuinely say I could see other high heralds doing something very similar. (for example, I think exiles ss was shown that way to show exactly what 616 ss COULD do if he really let loose--he's just way too good to do it....) but meh, maybe it's just me. /shrug

Originally posted by cdtm
The sole voice of reason in an irrational world. Keep on keeping on, my friend.

sole voice? I happen to think i'm perfectly reasonable. 🙂

Originally posted by cdtm
The sole voice of reason in an irrational world. Keep on keeping on, my friend.

Originally posted by Juntai
Also a false voice.
It was the prime timeline the entire time, which had become malleable because of the Crisis due to Superboy Prime punching reality. The only change was that Ted, being saved, didn't die, and the heros all fell to Max. Then, it was changed back, from that same moment. It's very explicit in the Booster comics that his endeavors in time travel were not different universes, they were all entirely in a single one. Everything prior to Superboy Prime was solidified time he couldn't alter in this universe. Hence the issue where he gets shitcanned by Joker, because he couldn't change it. The ONE universe his story takes place in had solidified this moment in history.

The fact that "our" Batman knew about it, solidifies that it's the same universe, iirc.

Originally posted by leonidas
@phil: cool. 👆

one thing that stood out though, and it's off topic but we're already there so..... I agree lack of feats for bill makes it tough here for me. my argument DOES hinge on some abc logic, but in this case I think it's pretty well founded, namely comparing thor and bill. you think adam would destroy thor as well, even though thor DEF has the feats to match adam? legit curious. I gte if you say thor>bill, the 2 aren't interchangeable, and you'd be right to point it out. i'm just curious if this were thor if things would be viewed differently.

fair enough. superman is a special case, granted. but you really think that adam in that arc would ruin guys like ss and thor, a really po'd hulk? or from dc someone like marvel or an out for blood Diana? (and I know there has been some indication that pg/ww are pretty close, but i'd think most who knew the 2 would take ww for a heavy majority--ww seems to be damn near a match for marvel.....and pg seems nowhere CLOSE to adam in several confrontations....) I dunno man, like I said to phil, I just don't see it, and I could genuinely say I could see other high heralds doing something very similar. (for example, I think exiles ss was shown that way to show exactly what 616 ss COULD do if he really let loose--he's just way too good to do it....) but meh, maybe it's just me. /shrug

I mean shit, Alan Scott was easily trans or skyfather in those days.
He went toe to toe with a crazy amped up Mordru
And a Genie enhanced Ultra-Humanite that iirc, also had Nabu's powers.

But this was meant to be an example of a Superman level enemy finally just losing it.

And yes, some members of that team should be able to stop Adam, particularly among the JSA members of that roster but consistently, they are unable to both here and in the JSA title.

This is the lineup that stopped Adam.

Jakeem and the Thunderbolt
Stargirl
Firestorm
Stripes.
Dr Light.
Steel.
Green Arrow.
Red Arrow.
Green Lantern Guy Gardner
Wonder Girl
Hawkman
Hawk Girl
Geoforce
Donna Troy wearing magical armor.
Power Girl.
Flash - Jay Garrick
Wildcat
Obsidian
Dr Midnight
Plastic Man.
Sand.
Bulleteer.
Guardian
Atom Smasher
Vixen
Offspring
Black Canary
Green Lantern Jade
Hourman
Alan Scott
Black Lightning
Green Lantern John Stewart.
Captain Marvel.
Natasha Irons [like Steel.]
Shining Knight
Liberty Bell
Zatana
Zatara
Phantom Stranger

And a handful of others I'm having a tough time placing.
And that's just the final battle, so not including the other Titans, Doom Patrol, Booster Girl, Great Ten, he encountered before that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
The fact that "our" Batman knew about it, solidifies that it's the same universe, iirc.

Are you talking about when Batman told Booster he knew about his Killing Joke intervention attempts?

That's a bit different then Maxwell Lord or Brother Eye conquoring the world.

Adam was not full on skyfather. The absurdity of some of these claims is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Juntai
This is the lineup that stopped Adam.

Jakeem and the Thunderbolt
Stargirl
Firestorm
Stripes.
Dr Light.
Steel.
Green Arrow.
Red Arrow.
Green Lantern Guy Gardner
Wonder Girl
Hawkman
Hawk Girl
Geoforce
Donna Troy wearing magical armor.
Power Girl.
Flash - Jay Garrick
Wildcat
Obsidian
Dr Midnight
Plastic Man.
Sand.
Bulleteer.
Guardian
Atom Smasher
Vixen
Offspring
Black Canary
Green Lantern Jade
Hourman
Alan Scott
Black Lightning
Green Lantern John Stewart.
Captain Marvel.
Natasha Irons [like Steel.]
Shining Knight
Liberty Bell
Zatana
Zatara
Phantom Stranger

And a handful of others I'm having a tough time placing.
And that's just the final battle, so not including the other Titans, Doom Patrol, Booster Girl, Great Ten, he encountered before that.

Beastly.

Originally posted by leonidas
fair enough. superman is a special case, granted. but you really think that adam in that arc would ruin guys like ss and thor, a really po'd hulk? or from dc someone like marvel or an out for blood Diana? (and I know there has been some indication that pg/ww are pretty close, but i'd think most who knew the 2 would take ww for a heavy majority--ww seems to be damn near a match for marvel.....and pg seems nowhere CLOSE to adam in several confrontations....) I dunno man, like I said to phil, I just don't see it, and I could genuinely say I could see other high heralds doing something very similar. (for example, I think exiles ss was shown that way to show exactly what 616 ss COULD do if he really let loose--he's just way too good to do it....) but meh, maybe it's just me. /shrug

Yes, if someone like Superman fully cut loose and went rotten, I definitely believe he could match(if not exceed) Adam's showings in WWIII. 👆