WW 3 Black Adam Vs Beta Ray Bill

Started by Philosophía9 pages
Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by cdtm
Couldn't disagree with Philo's take on feats more.

Whether catching a bullet, or pressing the weight of the Earth for five days straight, these "cheese" feats most definately do and "should" matter, because they're one of the few measurable things we have.

If you agree that street levelers are supersonic, or that rookie GLs/Superman/anybody who has gone through blackholes are literally invulnerable [singularities have infinite pressure], then this is just as an absurd position as that of 'Batman can beat the JLA with no prep because the showings support that'.

This isn't a neither/or type of situation - we take into account powersets, PIS etc. and not just go full 'math for every feat is what matters'.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Power Girl has also after coming out of a mind control daze got essentially sucker punched by a pissed off Wonder Woman then caught Diana's punch (while she was still on the ground IIRC). Among a few other things. Wonder Woman's skill can close the gap, but physically she's inferior going by comparosons. Despite all the hype Pre-FLASHPOINT Wonder Woman got as "strongest female in DC" she's behind the Kyrptonian ladies.

Even in New 52, Supergirl was explicitly as strong and fast as Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by Juntai
When Superman started actually trying, Adam backed down.
He was still ramping up, and was meanwhile rushing around and saving people during the encounter.
The entire point, including the tagline of the entire 52 event, was that WW3 happened because Superman wasn't there.

👆

The minute Superman started ramping up his attacks, BA turned his back and trusted Superman to stop due to his hero-status.

Originally posted by leonidas
@phil: cool. 👆

one thing that stood out though, and it's off topic but we're already there so..... I agree lack of feats for bill makes it tough here for me. my argument DOES hinge on some abc logic, but in this case I think it's pretty well founded, namely comparing thor and bill. you think adam would destroy thor as well, even though thor DEF has the feats to match adam? legit curious. I gte if you say thor>bill, the 2 aren't interchangeable, and you'd be right to point it out. i'm just curious if this were thor if things would be viewed differently.

I think Black Adam operates consistently at a level Thor operates ocasionally. Black Adam is on average a World War Hulk/Blood & Thunder Thor type of showing. People don't realize how insane that is. And that's not into account WWIII. I don't have Thor favorite against the JSA as many times as I have Black Adam. In that way, I'd give BA the nod over Thor more often than not.

Like I said, what BA consistently does is is reserved for very few characters in comics. Beta Ray Bill, by all evidence, is not among them.

krisblaze Senior Member

Iirc it was implied that SG was slightly superior in the physical department.

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by krisblaze
Iirc it was implied that SG was slightly superior in the physical department.
Wonder Woman states that they're matched in speed and strength [with the experience being the difference]:

http://i.imgur.com/nmkcbSf.jpg

Within the fight, she remarks that Diana is less strong than Superman, while complimenting her speed:

http://i.imgur.com/KDbQGka.jpg

Anyway, the bottom line is that Diana, Supergirl and Powergirl are roughly even in physical stats [strength/speed], and that's been consistently shown again and again.

For Black Adam to make short work of PG every time even when she has ridiculous backup is impressive as shit.

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!

@phil: though I don't fully agree with adam's average (I see him being no more or less than billy on average, just more willing to kill) your point is fair enuff.

@jun: adam was operating at....skyfather levels? 😑 we will most certainly disagree by a LONG shot there i'm afraid....

@galan: this guy gets it. 👆

ShadowFyre Senior Member

@Philo-Your one of the most articulate, well written and obviusly educated posters on this site, which is why I'm so taken back by your one sided bias in all DC vs. Marvel threads. I am sure I could be wrong but you almost always give a DC character the stomp even when the two combatants are obvious peers. I just don't understand.

carver9 Senior Member
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
@Philo-Your one of the most articulate, well written and obviusly educated posters on this site, which is why I'm so taken back by your one sided bias in all DC vs. Marvel threads. I am sure I could be wrong but you almost always give a DC character the stomp even when the two combatants are obvious peers. I just don't understand.

Yep. It's obvious.

carver9 Senior Member

This scan didn't state that Superman is stronger, she said she thought Diana would be stronger than Superman.

http://m.imgur.com/KDbQGka?r

For all we know, she could be saying they are equals. And Diana was holding back anyways.

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
@Philo-Your one of the most articulate, well written and obviusly educated posters on this site, which is why I'm so taken back by your one sided bias in all DC vs. Marvel threads. I am sure I could be wrong but you almost always give a DC character the stomp even when the two combatants are obvious peers. I just don't understand.
If somebody says something is 'obvious', I don't care for it unless they can argument it. If they can't argument, it's simple bias [towards a company or towards a character]. I can argument each and every one of my opinions.

If I feel DC, as a whole, has more formidable characters [and I do], and if I can argument it, there's nothing wrong with that. If somebody feels the opposite, they should feel free and back up their view. Saying something is obvious doesn't make it so.

I don't care about ad hominems. I care about argument-based discussions. .

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
@Philo-Your one of the most articulate, well written and obviusly educated posters on this site, which is why I'm so taken back by your one sided bias in all DC vs. Marvel threads. I am sure I could be wrong but you almost always give a DC character the stomp even when the two combatants are obvious peers. I just don't understand.
He is biased and won't even engage anyone on certain topics in a judged manner. Do not let him fool you. The lengths to which he's gone in the past to cherry pick and to inaccurately describe the totality of the appearances. Darthgoober threw an open ended challenge for the Surfer vs Superman who Phil says stomps the Surfer. He then wants to say based off the evidence but when it came down to it he wouldn't dare take goober on. Actions matter not words.

celeyhyga17 Yawning Void

Nothing wrong with bias. Just make sure you can make it look gud.

Oh and lol at "skyfather" comments. wtf!?

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!

i agree with phil: if someone presents open and fair information in an argument it is, by definition, NOT biased. bias inherently seeks to convince someone of a position by presenting information in a misleading way, by using half truths, cropped scans or omitting or refusing to accept contradictory information. there are definitely many posters here who do this on a regular basis. the best ones always show context or at least make mention of it and take it into account, at least most of the time.

Surtur Restricted
Originally posted by zopzop
They really didn't though. Even if you believe that, he was being mindphucked by Martian Manhunter while they were wailing on him. This isn't the first time he's resisted TP either.

I could be thinking of a different fight, but it did seem that a whole bunch of heroes who were fighting him weren't fighting very creatively with their powers and they kinda just tried to dog pile him.

Surtur Restricted

Originally posted by krisblaze
WW3 Adam had the power of an additional god, and the righteous fury of a man out to massacre a country in the middle east.

Bill is dead.

See this is something I've brought up in other threads with WW3 Adam and people would always tell me I was wrong and that he wasn't amped he just wasn't holding back.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Alan Scott's trying to armbar him for ****s sake.

Yep, and wasn't Alan also involved in a fight with Superboy Prime where he tried to scratch at him and bite him?

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by leonidas

@jun: adam was operating at....skyfather levels? 😑 we will most certainly disagree by a LONG shot there i'm afraid....

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Nothing wrong with bias. Just make sure you can make it look gud.

Oh and lol at "skyfather" comments. wtf!?


You guys can think what you want, but Adam was blazing a team with more than one trans/skyfather level players, including Alan and a Genie, a couple more GLs, a kryptoniam, a martian, 2 wonderwomen [one in Diana's magical armor], a handful of ridiculous level mages. I mean I listed the group a couple posts ago.

Shit, a team 1/20 this formidable steamrolled Thanos like he was barely there in Assemble.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Juntai
You guys can think what you want, but Adam was blazing a team with more than one trans/skyfather level players, including Alan and a Genie, a couple more GLs, a kryptoniam, a martian, 2 wonderwomen [one in Diana's magical armor], a handful of ridiculous level mages. I mean I listed the group a couple posts ago.

Shit, a team 1/20 this formidable steamrolled Thanos like he was barely there in Assemble.

Thanos was weakened and Adam lost. They also clearly held back against Teth. Adam was also amped. Anything else I need to correct ?

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos was weakened and Adam lost. They also clearly held back against Teth. Adam was also amped. Anything else I need to correct ?
Adam got Deux Ex'ed, not beaten down and stopped.

Thanos got absolutely smacked by a team that wouldn't stand a chance against this one.

False. Show me the scan in ww3 where it says he was amped.
It would be a curious thing not to mention through an entire event.

Sivana said in passing once in 52 that he was powered by seven gods. No one else said it, it was never referenced, or narrated or shown that he was amped in any way. And when Isis died, her power was not transferred to him. It was in her amulet. Which he used, alongside her power word during the Dark Ages storyline, which he didn't have in in WW3, and even so, her power was so miniscule next to his, that it ran out of power powering his form for a short time.

We chalk this up to error. He wasn't suddenly exclaiming extra gods lending him power. He wouldn't even know something like that.

So if you have any actual proof of an amp that happened; show it.

-Pr- Hey Yo!

Try to stay on topic Quan, Shadowfyre and Carver.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by carver9
This scan didn't state that Superman is stronger, she said she thought Diana would be stronger than Superman.

http://m.imgur.com/KDbQGka?r

For all we know, she could be saying they are equals. And Diana was holding back anyways.


Wut? She is saying she thought she would be stronger but didn't find her so strong.

Where is stronger than Superman comment?

Philosophía "The devil made me do it"

That moment when I read a comment from a poster that is on ignore..

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by Juntai
Adam got Deux Ex'ed, not beaten down and stopped.
[/B]
Adam was taking an immense physical pounding aka his face. The art made it very obvious. His allies also held back. The comic actually pointed out that Adam wasn't the most powerful guy there further dispelling the idea he's a skyfather level in power. He simply attacked with reckless abandon and didn't pull his punches. He wasn't immune to their attacks. They took a huge toll.


Thanos got absolutely smacked by a team that wouldn't stand a chance against this one. [/B]
Thanos was weakened by a plot device. When you're weakened that means you're not at your best. That's also one showing in a history of taking on teams of better opponents and most recently systematically handling them with ease.


False. Show me the scan in ww3 where it says he was amped.
It would be a curious thing not to mention through an entire event.
[/B]
. It was stated and retconned after the fact. He was amped. Isis. Undeniable.


Sivana said in passing once in 52 that he was powered by seven gods. No one else said it, it was never referenced, or narrated or shown that he was amped in any way. And when Isis died, her power was not transferred to him. It was in her amulet. Which he used, alongside her power word during the Dark Ages storyline, which he didn't have in in WW3, and even so, her power was so miniscule next to his, that it ran out of power powering his form for a short time.

We chalk this up to error. He wasn't suddenly exclaiming extra gods lending him power. He wouldn't even know something like that.

So if you have any actual proof of an amp that happened; show it. [/B]

This was stated in a comic so your refusal to accept it makes no difference to me. You're also ignoring his allies holding back while he did not. That's stated in the arc.

No, we accept the retcons comics give us we don't pick and choose what applies.