Should we let children transition? A transgender thread.

Started by dadudemon7 pages

Should we let children transition? A transgender thread.

Simple question:

Should children who believe they were born as the wrong gender be allowed to transition?

Against:

They are too young to fully understand a permanent decision like that. They could sterilize themselves. As children are wont to do, they often change their minds. Even if there is only a 5% chance, on average, that they change their minds, should we not err on the side of caution and wait until they are adults and can truly make an informed decision before we allow them to potentially mutilate themselves and regret their decision the rest of their lives? This is a huge decision. They should wait. They are just children. Almost none of them are capable of making informed decisions.

For:

Many if not most people who transition make it quite clear that they knew they were different from when they were very young. Even before they had concepts of gender, they knew something was different and that their body wasn't quite right. Additionally, going through puberty really ruins their ability to transition properly and you still "look" like the other gender somewhat, depending on how your genes made you look after puberty. This may be more difficult for male to female transitions. But if they transition before puberty, looking like the other gender is so much smoother and easier! Many want to give children the chance to transition BEFORE their body is permanently changed by puberty so they don't have to hear or see the vestiges of being the other sex after they transition. Sure, surgery and makeup are REALLY amazing, these days, but most people can still tell that something is not quite "right" for many who have transitioned. They don't want that. They want people to accept them as the gender that feel that they are and not "feel" that something is not quite right. They want to be normal. Not have people ask, "Hey, were you born as the opposite sex?" Sure, very few people are that rude but there are people who ask those questions.

Anyway, I believe the scientific side of me agrees that children should not be allowed to transition because it is not an "informed decision." But many children, including myself, didn't magically learn more about adult social constructs and ideas past 11: there was no secret knowledge to learn and I understood the world just fine by that age. So I can also agree with the "yes" arguments, too. Perhaps we should have a group of reputable psychologists put together an assessment that could thoroughly test whether or not a person was mentally prepared and understood all aspects/implications of transitioning? That way, they could know for sure that it was an informed decision? There, that's my compromise. I like my idea. 😄

Full disclosure: my religious beliefs make me think that things like people who are "transgender" have souls. Their soul is the opposite gender of their body. And they know it and can feel it. So I have a bias for transgender people because their special situations support some of my religious beliefs: aka, the existence of a soul. I'm mostly agnostic...borderline atheist. But I still have my theistic beliefs.

IMO it's child abuse if you allow your child to transition.

Or even to put them on hormone blocks before the age of like 16.

**** no. If the standard of consent is that children cannot legitimately consent to sexual behavior, then they shouldn't be allowed to consent to genital mutilation.

If you cannot legally consent to an adult fondling you, then you shouldn't be able to legally consent to an adult surgically altering your genetalia.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
**** no. If the standard of consent is that children cannot legitimately consent to sexual behavior, then they shouldn't be allowed to consent to genital mutilation.

If you cannot legally consent to an adult fondling you, then you shouldn't be able to legally consent to an adult surgically altering your genetalia.

That is a good point. If we're saying they are emotionally mature enough to make such a major life altering decision then..yeah.

Also prepare to be disturbed:

YouTube video

Originally posted by Emperordmb
**** no. If the standard of consent is that children cannot legitimately consent to sexual behavior, then they shouldn't be allowed to consent to genital mutilation.

If you cannot legally consent to an adult fondling you, then you shouldn't be able to legally consent to an adult surgically altering your genetalia.

Hmmm.

That seems like a pretty good argument, actually. And it doesn't use God or any type of theistic ideas to support it, either. That's usually the sign I look for when I determine if an argument is good in a political or social debate.

Yeah I'm a Christian, but I never use God or the Bible to argue morality. I'm not a Biblical inerrantist, so I believe the Bible is divinely inspired but flawed since it was written by man, so my standard of morality is Jesus's two great commandments being love God, yourself, and each other.

Thus my moral code is act out of love, and do what logically makes sense from that motivation.

Honestly, I just don't feel like a "child" has the kind of emotional maturity to know something like that for sure.

That said, with enough psychological evaluation (and I mean by at least 3-4 separate professionals), maybe an exception could be found, but in general, I'd be against anything like that before they're at least 15-16.

I feel parents letting their young children do this should have those children taken away permanently.

Especially the parents of the pre schooler who decided he wanted to be a chick and the parents just went "seems legit" and now Jack is Jackie.

It will be an interesting experiment for us to take a look back at "Jackie" in about 15-20 years.

Here is an article about someone who transitioned and regrets it. Shockingly it seems they were given little to no counseling before this person was allowed to do this though. But their insights are still interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/03/experience-i-regret-transitioning

Originally posted by -Pr-
Honestly, I just don't feel like a "child" has the kind of emotional maturity to know something like that for sure.

That said, with enough psychological evaluation (and I mean by at least 3-4 separate professionals), maybe an exception could be found, but in general, I'd be against anything like that before they're at least 15-16.

But dudemon brings up a good point in that the change after puberty is just not the same, incomplete if you will. So there's that.

No.

They aren't mature enough to make such decisions.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
But dudemon brings up a good point in that the change after puberty is just not the same, incomplete if you will. So there's that.

I do see his point, but I'd still be wary.

I don't find the age of consent argument very compelling, if a kid wants to have sex before they're sixteen they will (and do) and in most cases it's not a big deal. I also have no trouble believing that a 13 or 14 year old can be right in their mind on being the wrong gender. Naturally forcing someone like that to go through puberty could mess them up if not make them suicidal.

So for the sake of their mental health I think they should be allowed to be, but only provided proper psychiatric therapy is mandatory and well funded. A minor shouldn't be allowed to transgender without psychiatric approval either, and maybe some form of parental consent.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't find the age of consent argument very compelling, if a kid wants to have sex before they're sixteen they will (and do) and in most cases it's not a big deal. I also have no trouble believing that a 13 or 14 year old can be right in their mind on being the wrong gender. Naturally forcing someone like that to go through puberty could mess them up if not make them suicidal.

So for the sake of their mental health I think they should be allowed to be, but only provided proper psychiatric therapy is mandatory and well funded. A minor shouldn't be allowed to transgender without psychiatric approval either, and maybe some form of parental consent.

You don't seem to have alot of experience with children or have had any of your own. I could be wrong but you seem to speak from the "purest" rather then the more mature respect of sexuality.

😬

Darling I was a child once, I have experience kek.

Still, not sure what your point is.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
😬

Darling I was a child once, I have experience kek.

Still, not sure what your point is.

Except experiencing youth from the vantage point as an adult is vastly different then simply experiencing youth itself. If your vantage point is simply the expereince itself it hardly gives way to a more "professional" viewpoint as a parent or shool teacher or therapist.

Besides that human sexuality is fluid and allowing younger people to make choices they may not fully comprehend is a fools notions. What you feel when you are growing up may not be what you become at the end of the tunnel.

Alright but I'm still not sure what your point is.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Alright but I'm still not sure what your point is.

It should be obvious, your opinion is incorrect.

Oh dear.

This topic is always a funny one. Especially when the Leftists try to bring Science into it.