Should we let children transition? A transgender thread.

The question needs to be more specific.

Transition is simply the process of changing from living as one gender to living as another.

Not all transitions involve medical interventions.

Some people simply change their gender markers, i.e. their name and pronouns, and their gender expression, e.g. their manner or style of hair and dress.

I have no issue with hormone suppressors. They are not harmful and are completely reversible.

I am more cautious about cross hormone therapy, and conservative with regard to sex reassignment surgery, but am comfortable that the appropriate safeguards are in place.

One must be clinically diagnosed as transgender in order to begin cross hormone therapy or to receive sex reassignment surgery, and SRS is not performed on minors.

While I think gender, or the sense of one of whether he is a man or a woman, is something he knows at an early age, I also think that some gender non-conformity, particularly among lesbian, gay, and bisexual youths is normal, so people should be careful in assigning children as transgender.

For example, many lesbian, gay, and bisexual youths report being romantically attracted to members of the same sex at an early age. And because they live in a heterosexist society, they receive the message that one should be attracted to members of the opposite sex.

Some will try to reconcile that message with their attraction, and briefly entertain the idea that they should be of the opposite sex. However, most will quickly realize that they like their birth sex, and they just happen to like others of the same sex.

Transgender people may see that child and think he is trans, whereas lesbian, gay, and bisexual people may see that child and think he is gay or bi. So it is important to take the child for who he consistently and persistently purports himself to be, instead of imposing an identity upon him.

Good points.

Transgender is a mental disorder

I don't even approve of a teen doing this, but even then there is a world of difference between that and a child who is 12 or younger.

My only question about this issue with really young children is how much of this is brought on by their parents putting this nonsense in their heads. Especially nowadays with how Leftist Progressives and Teachers start pounding thier political fascism at them almost from day 1.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't find the age of consent argument very compelling, if a kid wants to have sex before they're sixteen they will (and do) and in most cases it's not a big deal. I also have no trouble believing that a 13 or 14 year old can be right in their mind on being the wrong gender. Naturally forcing someone like that to go through puberty could mess them up if not make them suicidal.

So for the sake of their mental health I think they should be allowed to be, but only provided proper psychiatric therapy is mandatory and well funded. A minor shouldn't be allowed to transgender without psychiatric approval either, and maybe some form of parental consent.

The logic you use makes more sense for kids 12 and older.

Remember though, I just posted a video of parents who felt their 3 yr. old was emotionally mature enough to decide they are female. Other strange stories I have read in the past 2 years contained a school where a classroom of 3rd graders were told to choose their genders.

Btw where do you stand on funding for these surgeries? Someone who wants to surgically transition from one gender to another should be responsible for the bill, right?

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]My only question about this issue with really young children is how much of this is brought on by their parents putting this nonsense in their heads. Especially nowadays with how Leftist Progressives and Teachers start pounding thier political fascism at them almost from day 1. [/B]

You have to wonder also how much of this stems from the kid not conforming to traditional gender roles as opposed to being truly trans. For instance, a little girl who likes to play more with toys normally seen as stuff boys play with. Some people these days might see that and immediately assume it's because their child believes she was born the wrong gender.

On top of all that, even more disturbing is reports about children with developmental disabilities(like autism)potentially being wrongly classified as having gender dysphoria.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So for the sake of their mental health I think they should be allowed to be, but only provided proper psychiatric therapy is mandatory and well funded. A minor shouldn't be allowed to transgender without psychiatric approval either, and maybe some form of parental consent.

I feel like even adults should need some rigorous counselling before being allowed to go through this. Seems like you do too, so you might find this interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/03/experience-i-regret-transitioning

It is about someone who regrets that they transitioned. But I thought you might find it interesting how easily this person was able to do this without any real counseling first, since this person is from the UK.

Of course this all reminds me of the old topic how parents don't have the right when their underage children being able to get surgical procedures with out their knowledge or permission. Cause Leftists Progressives is kooky dat way.

In Oregon you can get this gender transition surgery at the age of 15 and without needing actual parental consent.

Oh and it's all on the tax payers dime as well. Perhaps these people became sane and the policy has been done away with, but it was definitely an actual thing at one point.

Originally posted by Surtur
The logic you use makes more sense for kids 12 and older.

Remember though, I just posted a video of parents who felt their 3 yr. old was emotionally mature enough to decide they are female. Other strange stories I have read in the past 2 years contained a school where a classroom of 3rd graders were told to choose their genders.

Btw where do you stand on funding for these surgeries? Someone who wants to surgically transition from one gender to another should be responsible for the bill, right?

Originally posted by Surtur
I feel like even adults should need some rigorous counselling before being allowed to go through this. Seems like you do too, so you might find this interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/03/experience-i-regret-transitioning

It is about someone who regrets that they transitioned. But I thought you might find it interesting how easily this person was able to do this without any real counseling first, since this person is from the UK.

But yeah I read that article, disappointing that she wasn't offered any real help besides throwing her in psychiatric ward, but not surprising, the systems we have hear for treating mental health are seriously inadequate. I feel like if this person was properly diagnosed as transgender and given proper treatment (rather than be told to slap on some makeup Christ) things might have turned out better for her. But it appears we have proper proper transgender clinics now, though unsuprisingly they are understaffed and underfunded. 🙄

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The question needs to be more specific.

Transition is simply the process of changing from living as one gender to living as another.

Not all transitions involve medical interventions.

Some people simply change their gender markers, i.e. their name and pronouns, and their gender expression, e.g. their manner or style of hair and dress.

Specifically, I meant HRT (MtF or FtM) and/or Sex Reassignment Surgery (SRS). This was strongly implied by my words such as "permanent", "sterilize", "potentially mutilate", "regret the decision the rest of their lives", "puberty really ruins their ability to transition properly", "transitioning before puberty", and "transition before their body is permanently changed by puberty."

I do not know what I could have done to make it more obvious and I know this is a sensitive topic. Should I have very specifically stated, "HRT and/or Sex Reassignment Surgery"? None of my transgender friends have ever offered feedback on this (they are used to the looks and shitty comments from others and they know I always mean well, love them, and always have their best interests at heart so they probably never feel the need to correct me).

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I have no issue with hormone suppressors. They are not harmful and are completely reversible.

I am more cautious about cross hormone therapy, and conservative with regard to sex reassignment surgery, but am comfortable that the appropriate safeguards are in place.

One must be clinically diagnosed as transgender in order to begin cross hormone therapy or to receive sex reassignment surgery, and SRS is not performed on minors.

While I think gender, or the sense of one of whether he is a man or a woman, is something he knows at an early age, I also think that some gender non-conformity, particularly among lesbian, gay, and bisexual youths is normal, so people should be careful in assigning children as transgender.

For example, many lesbian, gay, and bisexual youths report being romantically attracted to members of the same sex at an early age. And because they live in a heterosexist society, they receive the message that one should be attracted to members of the opposite sex.

Some will try to reconcile that message with their attraction, and briefly entertain the idea that they should be of the opposite sex. However, most will quickly realize that they like their birth sex, and they just happen to like others of the same sex.

Transgender people may see that child and think he is trans, whereas lesbian, gay, and bisexual people may see that child and think he is gay or bi. So it is important to take the child for who he consistently and persistently purports himself to be, instead of imposing an identity upon him.

All very good points. 👆

Originally posted by Surtur
I feel like even adults should need some rigorous counselling before being allowed to go through this. Seems like you do too, so you might find this interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/03/experience-i-regret-transitioning

It is about someone who regrets that they transitioned. But I thought you might find it interesting how easily this person was able to do this without any real counseling first, since this person is from the UK.

Adults DO have to go through "counseling" and get a sign-off from a medical health professional in the US. This is a serious life decision and all surgeries like this have a probability of fatality.

They have to be diagnosed, too. And there is a one-year transition period, almost always done with HRT, before they can qualify for SRSs.

Oh for the good old days when Adult Therapy was a Kick to the Ass and you got told to Grow the Fudge Up. But now we have millennials and SAFE PLACES!!!!!

Embrace your inner cry baby!!!!!!!!! WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAH!HH!!

#tantrumed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Specifically, I meant HRT (MtF or FtM) and/or Sex Reassignment Surgery (SRS). This was strongly implied by my words such as "permanent", "sterilize", "potentially mutilate", "regret the decision the rest of their lives", "puberty really ruins their ability to transition properly", "transitioning before puberty", and "transition before their body is permanently changed by puberty."

I do not know what I could have done to make it more obvious and I know this is a sensitive topic. Should I have very specifically stated, "HRT and/or Sex Reassignment Surgery"? None of my transgender friends have ever offered feedback on this (they are used to the looks and shitty comments from others and they know I always mean well, love them, and always have their best interests at heart so they probably never feel the need to correct me).

You should use medical interventions when referring to cross hormone therapy or sex reassignment surgeries, because transitioning does not necessarily require medical interventions.

Some LGBT people may not know the precise terminology, or if they do, they may not feel compelled to correct someone if they understand his intent, even if he does not necessarily use the precise terms.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]My only question about this issue with really young children is how much of this is brought on by their parents putting this nonsense in their heads. Especially nowadays with how Leftist Progressives and Teachers start pounding thier political fascism at them almost from day 1. [/B]

Could you be convinced that you are transgender?

Originally posted by Surtur
Btw where do you stand on funding for these surgeries? Someone who wants to surgically transition from one gender to another should be responsible for the bill, right?

Yes.

Originally posted by Surtur
You have to wonder also how much of this stems from the kid not conforming to traditional gender roles as opposed to being truly trans. For instance, a little girl who likes to play more with toys normally seen as stuff boys play with. Some people these days might see that and immediately assume it's because their child believes she was born the wrong gender.

On top of all that, even more disturbing is reports about children with developmental disabilities(like autism)potentially being wrongly classified as having gender dysphoria.

Hence, why I stated earlier that one should take a child for who he consistently and persistently purports to be, rather than impose an identity upon him.

Originally posted by Surtur
I feel like even adults should need some rigorous counselling before being allowed to go through this. Seems like you do too, so you might find this interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/03/experience-i-regret-transitioning

It is about someone who regrets that they transitioned. But I thought you might find it interesting how easily this person was able to do this without any real counseling first, since this person is from the UK.

With the exception of bariatric surgery and live donor organ transplantation, sex reassignment surgery is the only category of surgeries for which a mental health assessment is required in the United States.

It is important to note that SRS is not a treatment for being transgender. Some transgender people have no desire to change their sex. Rather, it is a treatment for gender dysphoria, which is the psychological distress of one being unable to reconcile the disparity between his gender and sex.

Imagine identifying as a man, and looking in the mirror every day, and seeing a woman. Some people can accept that, and others simply cannot handle it. Sexual reassignment surgery is for the latter. Despite the name, the goal is not to make someone a member of a different sex; that is impossible. The goal is to cosmetically alter the appearance of that person in such a way as to minimize the psychological distress he is experiencing.

The reason some people regret SRS is the same reason some people regret any cosmetic surgery: they had unrealistic expectations. They think surgery will solve all their problems, and instead, they simply exchange one set of problems for another.

Another reason some people regret SRS is because no amount of surgery will help them. For example, people with body dysmorphia have a distorted self-image. Their perception of their appearance does not necessarily align with their actual appearance. So even if their actual flaws are surgically corrected, their perception of their appearance may not change. This often leads to disappointment, regret, and seeking additional surgeries. But no amount of surgery will help them, because the problem is with their brain, not with their body.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Could you be convinced that you are transgender?

Nope. Could you be convinced you are made of Trans Fats?

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Oh for the good old days when Adult Therapy was a Kick to the Ass and you got told to Grow the Fudge Up. But now we have millennials and SAFE PLACES!!!!!

Embrace your inner cry baby!!!!!!!!! WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAH!HH!!

#tantrumed. [/B]

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Yeah, it did wonders for you.

Yes. Unlike the mas proportion of the Millennial Generation I am not a Whiny Wimp. You sound like you could use a few sessions of such therapy there Grimey.