Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I said that she never has onscreen. Unless stated otherwise by the OP, CIS is active, and consistent combat showings are used to determine how characters perform in Versus threads. Considering the Flash's high end feats, getting tagged onscreen by non-speedsters is idiotic but, unless it is specified in a thread OP that CIS is off and that he is operating at peak, all those showings where non-speedsters tag him are fully usable in threads. Just like Supergirl's onscreen punches packing way less than a million tons of force is in this one.If other people want to indulge your peak-as-standard argument, I can't stop them. But as CIS is not disabled in the OP, and there is no mention of peak feats being used as standard, she is operating at the level she consistently does in onscreen fights.
Plot and Character choice are two different things. At any given scene a character can catch a bullet and in another get hit by a human speed being.
It had nothing to do with character CHOICE, but rather the fact that the character was operating at different levels of speed and perception in different scenes. The plot dictates this, not a character's conscious choice.
Anyway, SG Will be far faster than Thor. They will not be fighting at the same speed. SG will be massively more powerful as she lifted a million ton key casually.
She doesn't operate at consistent levels. There is no consistency with SG. That's why we choose best feats as the standard.
Originally posted by Silent Master
What you're doing is called speculating. I asked for actual proof.
I gave you proof. In order for Thor to shoot lightning he had to charge Mjolnir from the sky first. Otherwise, he would have shot lightning from his hammer without having to charge it first IN EVERY OTHER SCENE.
Originally posted by h1a8
Plot and Character choice are two different things. At any given scene a character can catch a bullet and in another get hit by a human speed being.
It had nothing to do with character CHOICE, but rather the fact that the character was operating at different levels of speed and perception in different scenes. The plot dictates this, not a character's conscious choice.Anyway, SG Will be far faster than Thor. They will not be fighting at the same speed. SG will be massively more powerful as she lifted a million ton key casually.
She doesn't operate at consistent levels. There is no consistency with SG. That's why we choose best feats as the standard.
The writers choose how to portray her combat levels and they do not portray her as hitting with million ton plus force. They also don't portray her as consistently operating at Flash-like speeds in her fights. No excuse you make changes that. Also, CIS dictates how a character approaches a fight, regardless of where you place their power level at the time. If they don't consistently approach fights in a certain manner, it's not considered in character.
Yes, there is consistency in her combat showings, with regards to the level of foes that frequently give her problems. You just want to use highest feats as standard because that's the only way you can argue a win for her, even though there is no such stipulation in the OP.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The writers choose how to portray her combat levels and they do not portray her as hitting with million ton plus force. They also don't portray her as consistently operating at Flash-like speeds in her fights. No excuse you make changes that. Also, CIS dictates how a character approaches a fight, regardless of where you place their power level at the time. If they don't consistently approach fights in a certain manner, it's not considered in character.Yes, there is consistency in her combat showings, with regards to the level of foes that frequently give her problems. You just want to use highest feats as standard because that's the only way you can argue a win for her, even though there is no such stipulation in the OP.
CIS is based off real intelligence, not cartoon intelligence. SG has the same common sense as the average rational person. Of course she's not going to hit someone with millions of tons of strength if she knows that will kill them. But as long as she has that capability then she will adjust her power accordingly if necessary.
But you do have a point. Similarly, Thor wouldn't just willy nilly shoot a woman with lightning right from the start (she wouldn't sit there and watch him either). He would most likely allow her to hit him and gauge her power. I believe that he is against hitting women. But after he feels her power (assuming he isn't koed) then he would adjust acordingly. She will too.
So power levels will fluctuate throughout the battle in order to win without killing.
The problem Thor has is her speed. She can dodge more easier than him and is more mobile than him. Both have the potential to put each other down in one blow, but SG will be more likely to win as she is clearly faster and have a much higher chance than Thor.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Prove that Thor had Mjolnir charged before the scene.
He had to or it would contradict all the times it was shown for him to charge the hammer from the sky before shooting lightning forth. Thus he simply had some charge left in the hammer prior to the scene.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Strike at 3:28https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltYa8I16HR0
Now, how bout you post clips of Supergirl being fast enough that she views her opponent as frozen. Post clips of Supergirl killing an opponent as durable as Thor in the first microsecond.
I'm still waiting for you to show a high-end combat feat from Supergirl. You keep mentioning the key feat as if your bench press weight is going to determine whether you win in a fight against a trained fighter or not.
That is not a city busting strike. Several blocks in radius, short of a mile. But the feat is irrelevant to this fight. That was a ground attack. It will not affect beings who can fly.
I don't have to. It's common sense based off all the times she used super speed. She even matched flash several times.
Strength and speed will kill Thor in the first microsecond (if she wanted to).
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
This is not what you were arguing when Winter Soldier's metal arm was being discussed. You dismissed any and all non-striking feats as irrelevant.So, your entire argument is based on Supergirl performing in a manner she has never actually been shown to perform in combat onscreen?
Also, who decided high-end non-combat feats are being used as standards, instead of actual combat feats? I see nothing of the sort in the OP, which sets the rules for the fight. In fact, from what I can recall, you were the one who tried to weasel that stipulation into the thread.
There was no lifting feats mentioned. If there were then I was wrong. Please use any force exerting feats by WS to prove his minimum striking strength (from the same limb of course).
Your logic that a character can't exert similar forces (or anywhere close) in a combat situation as they do in a non combat situation is asinine. If I can exert 100lb in a non combat situation then by what logic can't I do the same in a combat situation?
Originally posted by Darth Thor
You're just making that up.But even if that were true, it would mean Mjolnir is readily charged most of the time.
No, the point is you claimed Thor needs to spend a few seconds charging up his Hammer every time he fires, which clearly isn't true.
If you are arguing that characters WILL DO things in a forum fight, things they normally do, then THOR DOES NEED A FEW SECONDS TO SHOOT LIGHTNING. If you are arguing events (however rare) to be what will happen in a forum fight then you are correct, Thor doesn't need a few seconds to fire lightning. But don't argue against the rare things SG has done either. You can't have it both ways.
Originally posted by h1a8
CIS is based off real intelligence, not cartoon intelligence. SG has the same common sense as the average rational person. Of course she's not going to hit someone with millions of tons of strength if she knows that will kill them. But as long as she has that capability then she will adjust her power accordingly if necessary.But you do have a point. Similarly, Thor wouldn't just willy nilly shoot a woman with lightning right from the start (she wouldn't sit there and watch him either). He would most likely allow her to hit him and gauge her power. I believe that he is against hitting women. But after he feels her power (assuming he isn't koed) then he would adjust acordingly. She will too.
So power levels will fluctuate throughout the battle in order to win without killing.
The problem Thor has is her speed. She can dodge more easier than him and is more mobile than him. Both have the potential to put each other down in one blow, but SG will be more likely to win as she is clearly faster and have a much higher chance than Thor.
I am not sure about the whole notion of Thor holding back against a woman. One of his best friends, Sif, is one of the better Asgardian fighters, so he already knows that women can be lethal in a fight. And in the Ragnarok trailer, he tried to splatter Hela with a hammer toss (of course, it did not work out for him, but that's beside the point). Now, the notion that Supergirl has greater speed and mobility than him while moving is something I can agree with, but Thor has also reacted to alien energy cannons and things before. And, at the end of the day, while Supergirl has a handful of really decent high ends, I am not going to dismiss the way she consistently fights her battles onscreen.
Using individual high-ends in place of consistent showings becomes extremely problematic in forum fights. For example, MCU Iron Fist showed enough speed to deflect a bullet with his fist, and dodged another one at nearly pointblank range. Yet he also got tagged by human opponents whose limbs don't move at bullet speeds. But if we only use his high ends then, in a forum fight, no one with limb speed slower than a bullet should be able to tag him. Similar with MCU Daredevil, who can casually catch/dodge arrows, and has aim-dodged automatic fire on more than one occasion. Yet we know both those characters can be tagged by things slower than bullets/arrows.
Originally posted by h1a8If you are arguing that characters WILL DO things in a forum fight, things they normally do, then THOR DOES NEED A FEW SECONDS TO SHOOT LIGHTNING. If you are arguing events (however rare) to be what will happen in a forum fight then you are correct, Thor doesn't need a few seconds to fire lightning. But don't argue against the rare things SG has done either. You can't have it both ways.
Firstly do you want to tell me the time Thor's taken so many seconds to fire Lightning instead of just making up your own Thor "facts".
Second you should have conceded the point that Thor doesn't require many seconds, after it was disproven to you, but which you still refuse to do.
Third, we're waiting for a SG speedblitzi showing above what Thor can handle. See if you can give more examples of that, or if I can give more examples of Thor during lighting on the spot. Give SG's massively larger number of on screenfights, you should win this hands down.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Firstly do you want to tell me the time Thor's taken so many seconds to fire Lightning instead of just making up your own Thor "facts".Second you should have conceded the point that Thor doesn't require many seconds, after it was disproven to you, but which you still refuse to do.
Third, we're waiting for a SG speedblitzi showing above what Thor can handle. See if you can give more examples of that, or if I can give more examples of Thor during lighting on the spot. Give SG's massively larger number of on screenfights, you should win this hands down.
1. So many seconds? A few seconds is so many seconds? At least 3 seconds is about every time. Thor raises Mjolnir to the sky and waits a few seconds to charge then points it at the enemy and fires.
2. Thor charged the hammer prior to the scene since he was shown fighting right before the scene. In this fight his hammer starts uncharged.
3. Speedblitz? No, I'm saying that Kara will fight faster than Thor. She would view Thor in slow motion. Look at her fight against Flash and her latter fight against Astra. Then she raced Flash to help send him in time. She obtained speed instantly.
I'm not seriously putting numbers on her speed, but it's clearly faster than Thor's.
Also SG getting KOED to livewire contradicts the fact that she took livewire's full power without much effect several times. So it's highly possible that Thor's lightning from his hammer will do nothing if it hits her.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I am not sure about the whole notion of Thor holding back against a woman. One of his best friends, Sif, is one of the better Asgardian fighters, so he already knows that women can be lethal in a fight. And in the Ragnarok trailer, he tried to splatter Hela with a hammer toss (of course, it did not work out for him, but that's beside the point). Now, the notion that Supergirl has greater speed and mobility than him while moving is something I can agree with, but Thor has also reacted to alien energy cannons and things before. And, at the end of the day, while Supergirl has a handful of really decent high ends, I am not going to dismiss the way she consistently fights her battles onscreen.Using individual high-ends in place of consistent showings becomes extremely problematic in forum fights. For example, MCU Iron Fist showed enough speed to deflect a bullet with his fist, and dodged another one at nearly pointblank range. Yet he also got tagged by human opponents whose limbs don't move at bullet speeds. But if we only use his high ends then, in a forum fight, no one with limb speed slower than a bullet should be able to tag him. Similar with MCU Daredevil, who can casually catch/dodge arrows, and has aim-dodged automatic fire on more than one occasion. Yet we know both those characters can be tagged by things slower than bullets/arrows.
Trailers are not useable for various reasons. Thor will hold back in the beginning is what I'm saying.
To avoid inconsistencies and opinions of what an average should be, we use characters at their best. In the comic forum, it's a rule that characters must fight at full capacity. This was defined as "A character will fight to the best of the their ability AS SHOWN BEFORE."
SG is highly inconsistent. There exists no such notion as "how she consistently fights".
Aim dodging is not really a speed feat.
So bottom line, are you suggesting that SG will fight with human level speed since she has done so several times or more?
Originally posted by h1a8
Trailers are not useable for various reasons. Thor will hold back in the beginning is what I'm saying.To avoid inconsistencies and opinions of what an average should be, we use characters at their best. In the comic forum, it's a rule that characters must fight at full capacity. This was defined as "A character will fight to the best of the their ability AS SHOWN BEFORE."
SG is highly inconsistent. There exists no such notion as "how she consistently fights".Aim dodging is not really a speed feat.
So bottom line, are you suggesting that SG will fight with human level speed since she has done so several times or more?
Show me the rule that says we only use characters absolute best showings.
Originally posted by Silent Master
No, you provided your reasoning. that isn't proof.Post actual proof.
It is proof. We actually see Thor having to recharge Mjolnir. How else can you explain away the reason for him recharging Mjolnir every time before?
Your logic is suggests that Spider-Man can shoot webbing at anytime without first refilling his cartridges, although we saw him many times refill his web cartridges. This goes for GL and many other characters.