Spider-Man stronger than Loki? Wtf? You think Spider-Man can have a competitive h2h fight with Thor? Same Spider-Man who was owned by Captain America, same Cap who looked like a child against Loki? Makes sense.
Luke and Loki ARE stronger than Cap. Strength feats aren't the only criteria to gauge a persons strength.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Spider-Man stronger than Loki? Wtf? You think Spider-Man can have a competitive h2h fight with Thor? Same Spider-Man who was owned by Captain America, same Cap who looked like a child against Loki? Makes sense.Luke and Loki ARE stronger than Cap. Strength feats aren't the only criteria to gauge a persons strength.
Cap didn't beat SM due to strength, he outsmarted him. Bucky's bionic arm is stronger than Cap, yet SM casually handled Bucky's arm as if it were a toy, remember the line/scene "You have a metal arm?"
Originally posted by h1a8
Why is Batman from BvS stronger than Bane? What are his strength feats?
throwing a huge crate one handed, punching a guy across the room, chokeslamming a guy like he was a feather., exploding through a wall.. basically that entire warehouse fight shits on banes strength feats
Originally posted by FrothByte
Maybe "pushing" was the wrong term. Shoving a vehicle about a dozen meters or more with a casual push is more what I was thinking.My problem with Spiderman (and to be honest with most heroes) is that their strength seems to increase when they are pulling on some form of rope or cable. And Spiderman seems to have very high end strength feats while using his webbing but I don't see it translate without webbing.
For example, I don't see him one-hand military pressing a car over his head. Then again, I don't see Loki doing that either.
I usually think of Rami Spider-Man, and speaking of cables he does have that feat of holding that falling cable car full of people with just one arm. He also holds up a rather large section of wall in Spider-Man 2 at the end without any webbing usage, and seems to strain, but then tosses it back pretty far.
But then I'm guessing this is probably meant to be a more recent version of Spidey.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
The fights between Cap/Loki and Cap/Spidey aren't really a good representation of strength. Loki is much more durable than Spiderman is, and literally has nearly a thousand years more experience than he does. Also, Cap has had a notable power creep in between the first Avengers movie and Civil War.
Look Cap came across as an ant to Loki and iirc was floored in one hit. No one has treated Cap like that, Spider-Man certainly didn't. Neither is Cap casually walking through concrete walls, or bending machine guns like clay ala Cage.
Originally posted by Robtard
Cap didn't beat SM due to strength, he outsmarted him. Bucky's bionic arm is stronger than Cap, yet SM casually handled Bucky's arm as if it were a toy, remember the line/scene "You have a metal arm?"
Sure and that was impressive on Spider-Man's part but Bucky clearly wasn't going all out in that scene.
"Near equals"? What? So, you think Cap is comparable to a guy who can catch a falling jet bridge, an object that weighs over 20 tons, and was under gravitational acceleration when he caught it? When he pulled Spidey off his feet he used his bodyweight, and threw Spiderman off balance. Doesn't matter how strong you are if you don't have proper footing. Also, chances are that if Spiderman had hit Cap all-out, he could have floored him in one shot. But that was not his role, plus he is still lacking in experience at fighting superhumans, so likely doesn't know how much power to put into his punches to KO someone without killing them. Like how Jessica Jones can kill a regular person if she hits them full strength, but often has to resort to multiple strikes to KO someone while she is holding back.
And again, this is ignoring the blatant power creep Cap has had across the films. He literally went from struggling to bend a piece of railing in CA:TFA to out-muscling a helicopter in CA:CW.
Also, everything is not about strength. Spiderman lacks the durability or experience to hang with Thor. But you are basically ignoring the fact that skill, experience and durability play a huge part in a fight as well, and can have a drastic effect on the result.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
"Near equals"? What? So, you think Cap is comparable to a guy who can catch a falling jet bridge, an object that weighs over 20 tons, and was under gravitational acceleration when he caught it? When he pulled Spidey off his feet he used his bodyweight, and threw Spiderman off balance. Doesn't matter how strong you are if you don't have proper footing. Also, chances are that if Spiderman had hit Cap all-out, he could have floored him in one shot. But that was not his role, plus he is still lacking in experience at fighting superhumans, so likely doesn't know how much power to put into his punches to KO someone without killing them. Like how Jessica Jones can kill a regular person if she hits them full strength, but often has to resort to multiple strikes to KO someone while she is holding back.And again, this is ignoring the blatant power creep Cap has had across the films. He literally went from struggling to bend a piece of railing in CA:TFA to out-muscling a helicopter in CA:CW.
Also, everything is not about strength. Spiderman lacks the durability or experience to hang with Thor. But you are basically ignoring the fact that skill, experience and durability play a huge part in a fight as well, and can have a drastic effect on the result.
Sure you could argue he's had a power creep or you could argue he simply has more feats. He doesn't look noticeably stronger than in WS imo but didn't that film have the same creative team as Civil War working on it? Correct me if im wrong. Power creep is something all major characters go through, Cap isn't unique in that regard. His improved feats still aren't anything above fighting Thor h2h and being able to hurt him, plus what combat skill has Loki really got though besides using some weapons. Cap even came across as having more skill than Loki in their fight however when you're outmatched it's obvious, and that was the case there. Durability alone isn't going to stop you being kicked to the ground or knocked off your feet but super strong beings can resist through sheer force.
Cap was kicking regular men like a dozen metres in some parts yet a jumping spin kick on Loki just about made him take a step back, that's not purely down to durability.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
If you want to argue that Spidey jobbed to Cap then fine, I'm in agreement with that but Spider-Man was really trying to hold Cap in place who essentially powered out of it. If Spider-Man is that much stronger than Cap it should've been irrelevant what Cap did with his body surely.Sure you could argue he's had a power creep or you could argue he simply has more feats. He doesn't look noticeably stronger than in WS imo but didn't that film have the same creative team as Civil War working on it? Correct me if im wrong. Power creep is something all major characters go through, Cap isn't unique in that regard. His improved feats still aren't anything above fighting Thor h2h and being able to hurt him, plus what combat skill has Loki really got though besides using some weapons. Cap even came across as having more skill than Loki in their fight however when you're outmatched it's obvious, and that was the case there. Durability alone isn't going to stop you being kicked to the ground or knocked off your feet but super strong beings can resist through sheer force.
Cap was kicking regular men like a dozen metres in some parts yet a jumping spin kick on Loki just about made him take a step back, that's not purely down to durability.
Well, first of all, I do think Spidey jobbed, because it was a Cap movie. Same way Iron Man came across as much weaker than before so that Cap could win in the end there as well. And he didn't simply power out of it. He pulled his arms down, which changed the angle, throwing off Spidey's equilibrium, and then spun his entire body to pull him forward. Remember, Cap also has a mass advantage over Spiderman. Even if we high-ball Cap's best strength feat he is still at least 3 times weaker than Spiderman is, based on the jet bridge catch. And those feats are not influenced by combat skill, experience etc. It's pure muscle. But some people chalk it up to the "Russo-force" because, realistically, things like the helicopter feat are actually impossible. No matter how strong Cap is, he is still only like 220lbs. Which means the helicopter should just have taken off with him hanging from it, seeing as he had nothing to brace his feet against initially. Or for that matter, the bolts of the railing he eventually grabbed should actually have torn out of the concrete.
The major jump for Cap occurred when the Russos took over for TWS, which was maintained in AoU (because they can't exactly power him down again), and then further amped when the Russos did Civil War. But they had no influence in TFA or the Avengers, which are the films we are comparing him to. Also, his own actual skill level has increased since Avengers. This is pretty clearly visible when he fights.
Loki has proven his combat skill multiple times as well, against Frost Giants, Dark Elves, and Thor himself (who he always fought with weapons, not purely H2H). Or do you think he managed to fight Thor based purely on strength levels? Also, why are you bringing up regular humans? They aren't as strong as Spiderman either, who Cap only ever sent flying when he was either off balance, or airborne, so unable to brace himself, whereas Loki had firm footing when Cap kicked him.
IMO, if you give MCU Spiderman Asgardian level durability, and a lot more XP, I could see him giving Thor a decent tussle, assuming Thor holds back to the same degree that he did against Loki.